Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[R&R-Viking]

Six wars times two million is $12 million. Add in a defeat alert and we have $14 million. Two weeks of war and that's $196 million.

So NPO is going to come out of peace mode in a 3 war blitz? Thanks for the info.

6 wars a week for two weeks...... that my friends, is hypothetical math.

[raincoat]

Oh, you think I don't know that? I know it alright, but your point is moot as it changes nothing. It has nothing to do with what I have argued, acorn squash. If you think this well cause people to question my intelligence, then think again? People know well enough to see that your argument is merely a diversion, to stir their attention away from the disturbing truths I am uncovering about "Karma."

So saying that they can "raid tech, land, and cash without having to risk your own precious infrastructure." is completely irrelevant to if they can actually raid tech land and cash?

[Gn0xious Jr]

If you think this well cause people to question my intelligence, then think again?

was... was that a question?

[Heracles the Great]

Please stop it... I'm cracking up and my subjects are wondering if I've been inflicted with a disease or if I'm just going crazy. Surely the depth of sarcasm in RV's posts and his mockery of the NPO is not being lost on all of you - even without tone and inflection of the voice.

[Sarai]

Sarai, you sound like a caring person who is generally just nice. But, there's one thing you need to understand: the NPO declared offensive war in the middle of negotiations in which their behaviour had been absolutely aggressive. You see, not being able to foster growth or help new nations build up is part of what it means to lose a war - and this time, for good measure. The NPO was at fault here; this war is the result of the world coming together and saying, "no Pacifica, we won't let you be a bully". If the NPO is so worried about not being able to provide mentors for new nations then they probably shouldn't have tried to destroy another alliance. The members of OV and all the other alliances that the NPO have curbstomped in the past are just as real as your nations.

I can't really comment on the negotiations part. They seem as hard-neck as these ones. The reason I understand half of you are in this war is due to treaty activations. But anyway, see the quote below... This is the kind of thing that makes me sad. You say we attacked in negotiations as an agressive act which is being repaid in kind by the attitudes below then, more so one might say just in my view.

Anyway, we'll just have to disagree on the effect of your reparations. I don't believe they'll have the effect you desire. But perhaps the effect many others do. Justice with the fallen weapons of Pacifca or something, I don't know, I'm tired.

No he didn't. We've pointed out numerous times that even if they are ZI'd they still have enough money to buy back up to a level where they could pay it out. It would completely destroy your ability to grow, cripple your financial system, wipeout most of your warchests, and destroy your ability to wage war effectively for a long long time, but it's possible. You wouldn't be a viable super power in the forseeable future, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

We don't care about getting the reps. We care that NPO and its ways stay out of power for a significant period of time. You're all making it far more difficult for those of us who have no interest in your destruction by making threads like this that rehash ancient evils. Don't try to play the victim, get out of PM, take your hits, and try to make friends on the otherside during the war instead of trying to ineffectively smear them in public.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Sarai

[Gn0xious Jr]

You are all assuming that NPO won't want to fight back, that they'll just want to turn up their belly while you stomp their head so they can save you further damage and save themselves enough money to be able to pay you your reps for the honor of having you nuke them 13 times, air attack them 28 times, CM them 28 times, use your navy against them 42 times and ground attack them 28 times.

No one is assuming anything. There has been an awful lot of "OMG the 14 days would destroyz ourz bankz!!!" When questioned why/how, the answer has been based on 6 wars, etc.. people have simply stated that NPO would have COMPLETE control over how much $$$ they lose over the 14 days. If they choose to fight, good for them, they'll lose more $$$, but that's their choice.

The option of "turtling" is available any way you look at it... and WILL drastically decrease the amount of $$$ lost during the 14 days of fighting. If Karma wanted them to turtle, it'd be in the terms.

[raincoat]

Mathmatically, you can lose up to 12 million per day in ground attacks alone, RV is absolutely correct in that. It happened to me several different times in the war. I was willing to sacrifice a million dollars to destroy infra, steal land and tech. I figured as long as I was doing more dollars worth of damage than my million was paying for it was worth it to me. Go aggressive with under 15% odds and you'll get that result 90% of the time. Steal and destroy but lose money.

You are all assuming that NPO won't want to fight back, that they'll just want to turn up their belly while you stomp their head so they can save you further damage and save themselves enough money to be able to pay you your reps for the honor of having you nuke them 13 times, air attack them 28 times, CM them 28 times, use your navy against them 42 times and ground attack them 28 times.

And that's if you are even telling the truth about keeping a list of nations as they move from peace mode and giving them only 14 days of war and not starting the clock once 90% are out of PM and giving them an additional 14 days beating once that number is reached.

I know if I get in this scenairo I'm spending every dollar possible to take out as big a piece of my attackers as I possibly can.

That means 3-4 million a day to rebuy Air Force, 5-10 million to rebuy navy, 1-2 million per day to rebuy nukes immediately.

If I have no infra and no money left at the end of 14 days and can't pay your reps, oh well. That's too bad.

That would be their choice. NPO nations could also delete their nations or spend their entire warchest on infra. That would not be Karmas fault. The matter at hand is if NPO COULD pay the reparations. They can and many of their nations can do so while still fighting for those 14 days.

[Tromp]

Please stop it... I'm cracking up and my subjects are wondering if I've been inflicted with a disease or if I'm just going crazy. Surely the depth of sarcasm in RV's posts and his mockery of the NPO is not being lost on all of you - even without tone and inflection of the voice.

This may be true.

I'm sorry RV.

For now, I will leave this topic once again. (Seriously, 200+ pages is ridiculous.)

EDIT: posts =/= pages >.>

Edited June 16, 2009 by Tromp

[Bob]

Mathmatically, you can lose up to 12 million per day in ground attacks alone, RV is absolutely correct in that. It happened to me several different times in the war. I was willing to sacrifice a million dollars to destroy infra, steal land and tech. I figured as long as I was doing more dollars worth of damage than my million was paying for it was worth it to me. Go aggressive with under 15% odds and you'll get that result 90% of the time. Steal and destroy but lose money.

You are all assuming that NPO won't want to fight back, that they'll just want to turn up their belly while you stomp their head so they can save you further damage and save themselves enough money to be able to pay you your reps for the honor of having you nuke them 13 times, air attack them 28 times, CM them 28 times, use your navy against them 42 times and ground attack them 28 times.

And that's if you are even telling the truth about keeping a list of nations as they move from peace mode and giving them only 14 days of war and not starting the clock once 90% are out of PM and giving them an additional 14 days beating once that number is reached.

I know if I get in this scenairo I'm spending every dollar possible to take out as big a piece of my attackers as I possibly can.

That means 3-4 million a day to rebuy Air Force, 5-10 million to rebuy navy, 1-2 million per day to rebuy nukes immediately.

If I have no infra and no money left at the end of 14 days and can't pay your reps, oh well. That's too bad.

The fact that you just said RV is correct means that I will not be reading the rest of what you said. RV is doing this for attention, not for any higher cause. Everyone who knows him realizes it, and that's why we aren't seriously replying to him (see Delta's posts in this thread).

Edited June 16, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris

[Gn0xious Jr]

Please stop it... I'm cracking up and my subjects are wondering if I've been inflicted with a disease or if I'm just going crazy. Surely the depth of sarcasm in RV's posts and his mockery of the NPO is not being lost on all of you - even without tone and inflection of the voice.

Then RV is extremely talented, had me wanting to throw my keyboard through my monitor

[raincoat]

Then RV is extremely talented, had me wanting to throw my keyboard through my monitor

Likewise, I will admit successful troll RV, successful troll.

[baseballer790]

I may not like NPO but this terms are bull-!@#$

Telling nations in peace mode to come out of peace for open fire for 14 days is totally wrong. Most of those are their banks and these terms are in obvious attemp to cripple NPO into disbandment.

[Bob]

I may not like NPO but this terms are bull-!@#$

Telling nations in peace mode to come out of peace for open fire for 14 days is totally wrong. Most of those are their banks and these terms are in obvious attemp to cripple NPO into disbandment.

Oh baseballer. It is wrong for sure compared to everything NPO has done right?

And of course, they are going to be crippled into disbandment. Ignore the fact that they will be able to rebuild if their banks are remotely competent

[Rebel Virginia]

Well then, I guess they shouldn't be complaining about how they have no money then if they have the requisite money to actually fight. If it were that desperate a situation, I'd say most people would probably try to cut expenses, no?

It's either a lie or pathetic, depending on whether the cry of "WE GOT NO CASH ZOMG" is true or not.

And by the way, you don't steal stuff via Defeat Alerts. Just saying.

You, sugar water, are making the fatal mistake of assuming that all NPO member have sizable war chests. But even if they do, the size of the reparations would take years to pay off, and not in three months as you so claim. Yes, MK did it you may say, but NPO is not MK, plus, MK had to pay less. And you all cried bloody murder when NPO did it to MK, but now you want to do it to NPO? Who are you to do this to the NPO?

And besides, it would take an incredible feat of coordination to pay off all of these reparations in the amount of time that you demand, and I for one believe that it is impossible for the NPO to do this. Yes, I will abandon all logic for my next defense, since clearly you people cannot be reasoned with. So instead I shall make this blind, emotional plea, by declaring the NPO occupationally unfit to pay the reparation money.

Give the NPO white peace. They cannot pay. They simply lack the competence, as because of this simple fact such a large burden forced upon them will damage them irreversibly. To put it plainly, the NPO's very existence is being threatened by these terms. You are asking too much of them.

I call it Rebel Virginia's Law. The amount of reparations an alliance is unable to pay is directly proportional to the level of incompetence in an alliance. With the staggering amount of inability demonstrated by the NPO's leadership, as I'm sure you folks at Karma believe there to be, as proven by the fact they got themselves into this mess, surely you cannot expect them to pay you this money. The NPO is simply too incompetent and the amount of reparations is simply too high.

Now, as Rebel Virginia's Law has proven, these terms will kill the NPO. Can this world survive without NPO? Yes, most likely, but tell me, will it be a world worth living in? The NPO has been around since the beginning of time, and has touched us all in ways we cannot even possibly begin to imagine. So not only would we be losing a part of our history, but we would also be losing a part of ourselves. Think about that for a minute, will you?

[raincoat]

I may not like NPO but this terms are bull-!@#$

Telling nations in peace mode to come out of peace for open fire for 14 days is totally wrong. Most of those are their banks and these terms are in obvious attemp to cripple NPO into disbandment.

cripple yes, disband no. The terms are completely possible and the get out of peace mode term is one that was learned FROM the NPO.

[Bob]

I call it Rebel Virginia's Law. The amount of reparations an alliance is unable to pay is directly proportional to the level of incompetence in an alliance. With the staggering amount of inability demonstrated by the NPO's leadership, as I'm sure you folks at Karma believe there to be, as proven by the fact they got themselves into this mess, surely you cannot expect them to pay you this money. The NPO is simply too incompetent and the amount of reparations is simply too high.

I am in love with you.

This is a great post and I agree with it x100.

[King DrunkWino]

I am in love with you.

This is a great post and I agree with it x100.

Truly, Rebel Virginia is a prince among paupers.

[Captain Flinders]

So you'd rather an entire alliance of 700 people (minus whatever ghosts are still left, obviously) [OOC]no longer be able to play the game that you and everyone else in this thread seems to enjoy playing? How selfish of you. All of you.[/OOC]

Remember when your emperor decreed that FAN will never achieve peace? Right, you can shut up now.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

You, sugar water, are making the fatal mistake of assuming that all NPO member have sizable war chests. But even if they do, the size of the reparations would take years to pay off, and not in three months as you so claim. Yes, MK did it you may say, but NPO is not MK, plus, MK had to pay less. And you all cried bloody murder when NPO did it to MK, but now you want to do it to NPO? Who are you to do this to the NPO?

And besides, it would take an incredible feat of coordination to pay off all of these reparations in the amount of time that you demand, and I for one believe that it is impossible for the NPO to do this. Yes, I will abandon all logic for my next defense, since clearly you people cannot be reasoned with. So instead I shall make this blind, emotional plea, by declaring the NPO occupationally unfit to pay the reparation money.

Give the NPO white peace. They cannot pay. They simply lack the competence, as because of this simple fact such a large burden forced upon them will damage them irreversibly. To put it plainly, the NPO's very existence is being threatened by these terms. You are asking too much of them.

I call it Rebel Virginia's Law. The amount of reparations an alliance is unable to pay is directly proportional to the level of incompetence in an alliance. With the staggering amount of inability demonstrated by the NPO's leadership, as I'm sure you folks at Karma believe there to be, as proven by the fact they got themselves into this mess, surely you cannot expect them to pay you this money. The NPO is simply too incompetent and the amount of reparations is simply too high.

Now, as Rebel Virginia's Law has proven, these terms will kill the NPO. Can this world survive without NPO? Yes, most likely, but tell me, will it be a world worth living in? The NPO has been around since the beginning of time, and has touched us all in ways we cannot even possibly begin to imagine. So not only would we be losing a part of our history, but we would also be losing a part of ourselves. Think about that for a minute, will you?

This really is one of the best posts Ive seen in a while. I lold several times.

[Aurion]

You, sugar water, are making the fatal mistake of assuming that all NPO member have sizable war chests. But even if they do, the size of the reparations would take years to pay off, and not in three months as you so claim. Yes, MK did it you may say, but NPO is not MK, plus, MK had to pay less. And you all cried bloody murder when NPO did it to MK, but now you want to do it to NPO? Who are you to do this to the NPO?

And besides, it would take an incredible feat of coordination to pay off all of these reparations in the amount of time that you demand, and I for one believe that it is impossible for the NPO to do this. Yes, I will abandon all logic for my next defense, since clearly you people cannot be reasoned with. So instead I shall make this blind, emotional plea, by declaring the NPO occupationally unfit to pay the reparation money.

Give the NPO white peace. They cannot pay. They simply lack the competence, as because of this simple fact such a large burden forced upon them will damage them irreversibly. To put it plainly, the NPO's very existence is being threatened by these terms. You are asking too much of them.

I call it Rebel Virginia's Law. The amount of reparations an alliance is unable to pay is directly proportional to the level of incompetence in an alliance. With the staggering amount of inability demonstrated by the NPO's leadership, as I'm sure you folks at Karma believe there to be, as proven by the fact they got themselves into this mess, surely you cannot expect them to pay you this money. The NPO is simply too incompetent and the amount of reparations is simply too high.

Now, as Rebel Virginia's Law has proven, these terms will kill the NPO. Can this world survive without NPO? Yes, most likely, but tell me, will it be a world worth living in? The NPO has been around since the beginning of time, and has touched us all in ways we cannot even possibly begin to imagine. So not only would we be losing a part of our history, but we would also be losing a part of ourselves. Think about that for a minute, will you?

Impressive. Very.

I see at least one legend lives up to their billing.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Aurion

[Nintenderek]

*big post here*

RV, your a genius, simply a genius.

[Vol Navy]

That would be their choice. NPO nations could also delete their nations or spend their entire warchest on infra. That would not be Karmas fault. The matter at hand is if NPO COULD pay the reparations. They can and many of their nations can do so while still fighting for those 14 days.

Then it isn't NPO's fault that alliances disbanded when they were defeated by NPO and company in various wars.

The fact that you just said RV is correct means that I will not be reading the rest of what you said. RV is doing this for attention, not for any higher cause. Everyone who knows him realizes it, and that's why we aren't seriously replying to him (see Delta's posts in this thread).

I said he was correct in that it was possible to lose up to 12 million per day in GAs.

Regardless of why he was doing it, he was correct on that point.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

I was going to write out a long winded and factual reply as to why Karma is hypocritical to the point of being funny. Then I remembered that there's no point.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

Since everyone around here loves undebatable statistics (myself included), here you go.

This does not factor in things like viceroys or special terms from us, nor does it factor in the special terms of moving everyone to war mode for 14 days, or specifying who can pay reps offered by you. In my opinion (though this is an opinion and not based in numerical fact like the numbers above) Your special terms are also harsher than any we've ever offered anyone.

NPO will decom all wonders.

NPO will have a viceroy installed.

NPO's charter will be rewritten to the satisfaction of at least half of the alliances now fighting them.

NPO's government officials will be expelled and PZI'd.

NPO's will decom all but 30 nukes... well let you know when you can have them back.

NPO will send a monthly tribute for an indeterminate amount of time.

NPO's propaganda people will work for us for a while.

NPO will move to the pink team.

NPO will move to an offsite and IRC channel of our choice so we can take over your communications channels without violating the ToS.

...You've also missed decomming military to the point of self-anarchy and the decomm of all factories.

Also, all NPO peace mode nations must leave PM and face war within four days or face PZI.

If you have more soldiers then the 20% as stipulated by the terms (self-anarchy), the NPO shall be declared upon, no matter how few nations or how small the infractions are.

Also missed the no-first-strike-nuking clause.

And expulsion of non-government members.

And installation of a puppet ruler.

I would rather have the rest of the terms we've laid out (i.e. 1k tech, 14 day war for peace mode nations) then the wonder decomm, by itself. Disbandment, PZI for peace mode nations, Viceroys, and complete loss of sovereignty or worse are all far beyond anything we've stipulated.

1) All nations in peace mode currently will face 14 days of war, no more, no less. When 90% of your peace mode nations comply, then peace will be declared.

2) The 1k tech level is rather easy to bypass. Having a few banks send money down and have tech be sent up to nations above 1k and then sent to specified reparation targets is completely feasible.

EDIT: Similarly, you can gain 6 million from GAs if you are going down that avenue. Turtling however is still more viable.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Tolkien

[muffasamini]

cripple yes, disband no. The terms are completely possible and the get out of peace mode term is one that was learned FROM the NPO.

Oh god. You know nothing. Please stop talking.

The terms leave a very large possibility of either eternal war, or payment impossibility (as a possible side effect of the 90% exacerbates the 100 tech clause). If these loopholes are closed, the reps would still be reproachable, but then you'd be correct. The GATO order was rescinded.

[Deadshot]

Once again, go look at the terms given to many other Hegemony alliances. You might not like what is happening to the NPO but to claim that nothing is changing is simply asinine when there are several examples of change right in front of your face.

Just now being able to respond (sleep and all), but I do agree this is an oft overlooked point. I know their was heated debate over NATO's terms, and while I never expected white peace, it was welcomed. While I do not agree with the surrender terms, claiming some things aren't changing is simply not true. That is a fact, while my opinion on terms for others is just that. Opinion.