Do you think Karma has responsibility?

[KIADO]

I know this is your personal opinion but you're still a GDA member.

You didn't answer my question. Who do karma need to be act better than to bring about a better future? Better than NPO? Because if that's what you mean I'd like to remind you that you're in an alliance that's one of their few remaining MADP partners thus still showing full support for their actions.

Might wanna reconcider your choice of alliance if you feel this strongly about harsh terms.

Thanks for your response.

I think many leaders and players do understand now and see the consequences that every cause has an effect and therefore they will in the future more carefully evaluate their actions and beliefs.

I truly hope that planet bob and his community will evolve to higher moral standards but for this to happen (a change in the core beliefs)i think the community needs to see leaders and alliances who act out of selfintrest and are willing to make a sacrifice due to their beliefs.

I am definitely not pointing in any direction as i do understand that i can't demand such.

But i am sure plane bob will find their heroes .

[Haflinger]

Do something about it posts already?

You're a bit late, GOD was posting them before the war even started.

[neneko]

Thanks for your response.

I think many leaders and players do understand now and see the consequences that every cause has an effect and therefore they will in the future more carefully evaluate their actions and beliefs.

I truly hope that planet bob and his community will evolve to higher moral standards but for this to happen (a change in the core beliefs)i think the community needs to see leaders and alliances who act out of selfintrest and are willing to make a sacrifice due to their beliefs.

I am definitely not pointing in any direction as i do understand that i can't demand such.

But i am sure plane bob will find their heroes .

You avoided my question again.

You're calling for karma to make sacrifices for their (your?) beliefs but you're not willing to do the same. You're still part of a group that show support for the actions you tell karma to stop.

Edited June 5, 2009 by neneko

[magicninja]

Hypocrites and now liars too!

Meh, it is what it is. I can't blame you guys I guess but c'mon you shoulda just been straight up since the beginning. There really was no need for the "change" speeches. Good old fashioned revenge would've sufficed.

[neneko]

Meh, it is what it is. I can't blame you guys I guess but c'mon you shoulda just been straight up since the beginning. There really was no need for the "change" speeches. Good old fashioned revenge would've sufficed.

Imma give you a huge spoiler. It's a big secret around here so try not to tell anyone.

neneko leans in and whispers

There are alot of alliances in the karma coalition and each of those have alot of different members. Everyone doesn't have the same opinions.

Don't tell anyone

[Kylliah]

I don't want to go into the argument if NPO deserves do get destroyed because of their past or because of the possibility of a future threat.

What i want to know is, if you think the leaders of Karma do recognize their chance and have some responsibility of shaping a better future by showing and giving planet bob a example how enemies are treated.

I understand the danger and risk by doing so but don't all altruistic and heroic actions come with a certain price and risk?

I think some do, and some do not. It will be interesting to watch how they handle power at the end of everything. I think we're going to see a defined line between those who can handle having power on Bob, and those who simply cannot.

[Shamed]

Most of Karma lack the moral authority to shape a better tomorrow. Their decision to permanently disable or destroy NPO has seen to that. If there is to be a brighter future it will come from Citadel, Frostbite or some regrouping of the losing side in the Karma war.

In the Karma war Karma blamed the allies of NPO for helping them do as they pleased. The same should be true for all of Karma in this war, if they dont openly oppose where the grouping is going they are just as guilty for any crimes that might be committed.

I've never felt prouder to lack moral authority.

[KIADO]

You avoided my question again.

You're calling for karma to make sacrifices for their (your?) beliefs but you're not willing to do the same. You're still part of a group that show support for the actions you tell karma to stop.

I did answer all your questions .

[Lord Razzia]

As a very, very early prediction, based upon the now and thinking for a second that not much will change (which it will, I am sure), I believe that there will be two opposing factions in the coming days: The "Neo-Karma" Faction, consisting of the Complaints and Grievances Union, the Rosular Kingdom, the SuperFriends, the Ragnablok, Frostbite, and Below vs. The Citadel and The Sweet Oblivion (which, I also predict, will eventually join The Citadel anyway).

That sounds like a heavily-lopsided war, yes, but keep in mind that I failed to mention (for I am not sure) how blocs such as NOIR, the Stickmen, AZTEC, the Nexus Agreement, the Pocahontas Accords, the League of Extraordinary Oranges, or the Chestnut Accords, will align. Those blocs that were of the Hegemony, such as the former and current alliances of One Vision, the P.E.A.C.E. Treaty, and the Overlord's Protectorate Pact are unknown to me. What will become of the Orange Unity Treaty is also unknown to me.

Please note that this is a very early prediction, and thus every part of it is subject to change. Note also that it doesn't quite take into consideration future alliances or blocs that might emerge later.

That's a bold and very interesting prediction. It's nice to see you took unknown variables heavily into account though.

I too would like to see how this plays out once Echelon, NPO, and I guess Avalon finally peace out.

[astronaut jones]

If defeating what had been a game dominating bloc is not enough to earn your respect, then I have no idea what actions possibly could. That said, no one gives a damn.

and yet here you are, replying.

[Newhotness]

no karma doesnt have responsibility. yes im tired of seeing all these repetitive karma related topics

[Vilien]

and yet here you are, replying.

I see you replied to my post as well oh ho ho

[magicninja]

Imma give you a huge spoiler. It's a big secret around here so try not to tell anyone.

neneko leans in and whispers

There are alot of alliances in the karma coalition and each of those have alot of different members. Everyone doesn't have the same opinions.

Don't tell anyone

I've heard all of the excuses. Thanks anyway.

[astronaut jones]

I see you replied to my post as well oh ho ho

I'm not the one who said no one gives a damn.

[neneko]

I've heard all of the excuses. Thanks anyway.

Are you dense or something? Random karma members posting things represent everyone in karma about as much as everything you post represent gato or whatever alliance you are in today.

[magicninja]

Are you dense or something? Random karma members posting things represent everyone in karma about as much as everything you post represent gato or whatever alliance you are in today.

Yes, yes. Whatever.

Edited June 6, 2009 by magicninja

[Master Hakai]

Are you dense or something?

Yes, he is dense.

In regards to the OP (since this is the first time I actually broke and decided to open this thread), I definitely would say no, Karma does not have a responsibility. They (or, "we") fought a war, got the point across, and are in the process of finishing the job. After that, it's not really anyone in particular's "responsibility" to guide CN to where it should be. That's an impossible task, and any attempts to do so would result in failure.

Honestly, if CN were being guided and kept in line by some large force, that's when I'd be done and ready to move on to something more interesting. The unpredictability we have now without NPO is certainly a good thing.

[Newhotness]

Yes, he is dense. After that, it's not really anyone in particular's "responsibility" to guide CN to where it should be

This statement is so awesome, i will quote it. because he is dead on

[WarriorConcept]

Are you dense or something? Random karma members posting things represent everyone in karma about as much as everything you post represent gato or whatever alliance you are in today.

Yes, he is. He still believes a karma bloc will emerge or something, don't spoil the secret ;v

[Khyber]

I'm actually curious to see what Citadel does in the coming months. There was always a LOT of talk there about trying to forge a better, more honorable CN, both through example and a willingness to fight against tyranny, but that mentality tended to get muted by more pragmatic concerns, and the fact that Citadel didn't necessarily have the raw power it would need to really stand up to the worst offenders.

Now that the political landscape has changed, I'm very interested as to whether or not the reformer mentality gains ground and Citadel as a whole attempts to actively work towards shaping a better CN, or if the pragmatic elements grow even stronger in a multi-polar world.

The guys pushing the most for cultural change in Citadel would be the Gremlins in my mind. TOP has in the past, while being individualistic to some extent in major power blocs, has been very conservative and not revolutionary when it comes to going against the norm, alliance build, elite when such things were not popular, and no engaging in many curb stomps are the only things that set it apart.

Gremlins however have by and large been the ones to come out with a Codex, and pushed for certain reforms and how they do things. This has invariably rubbed off of their closest allies, most notably Citadel, MHA, and FARK to some extent (not sure how big they've rubbed off of on them). Umbrella and FCC have also leaned more along the lines of Gremlins before Gremlins put forth their Codex, and so it is no suprise that they seem somewhat more agreeable to that mentality.

At the heart of the Gremlin Codex is a very isolationist moral code, something that I believe is attractive to TOP and others in Citadel, as originally Citadel may have been sold off as an somewhat isolationist, defensive bloc. This means crusading for the moral "good" is not likely to take place by Citadel. More likely you will see Citadel alliances walking by their principles more often, and won't be guided by what others want of them. This has clearly brough some contention thus far, but after this war I think it will be less so.

So such things as "fight against tyranny" is not likely to happen by the Citadel. I believe Citadel will defend it's own, try and remain respectful where it can, and do what they believe is right without going about trying to save the world from itself.

In the end I strongly disagree with notions that Citadel will be some kind of saviour. NpO in this war seems to share much in common idealogically with Citadel alliances, and I doubt they will be crusading for some kind of greater good. So in the end it comes down to what it has always been, you lend your nation and it's military to the alliance whose ideals best fit you. If you believe strongly in what Gremlins, NpO, GOD or anyone else represents then you join them, or are part of an alliance that is allied to them. Failure to do so means you are most likely lending your nation to be used against such ideas. That is where the battle is taking place.

[Instr]

if the end result is that heg with the aid of cit smashes SF and C&G then this war was TOTALLY awesome.

it all goes to prove that you can't beat the NPO and that the NPO can be as obnoxious as its wants, because everyone else is just a $%&@tard.

[Francesca]

Old fashioned though it may sound, I believe in objective morality, and therefore I believe Karma has moral obligations to act in a responsible way.

[Vilien]

I'm not the one who said no one gives a damn.

You did, however, say that Karma had not earned your respect. I proceeded to exercise my ability to type words by writing the reply to which you are referring.

[Cataduanes]

Nope, Karma is full of themselves with all the change talk. Even they admit it now though they try to cover their asses by saying they never said anything about change or being the good guys. I guess they think we all forgot about that.

heh, you talk as if all Karma is a monolithic bloc like TC was, it has already been clearly pointed out that Karma is loose (Penchuk's description seems most adequate)...as for backpedalling on being the good guys i think its safe to assume that is incorrect, the rank and file members that have fought in this war believed in the cause and believe that the war and its consequences (such as the collapse of Pax Pacifica) is in the interest of the general good and you seem to be taking the words of a select few from certain alliances as gospel.

Besides let us judge Karma for what it is and what it has done once the dust has settled, to damn them for whats to come is a little premature

[Firestorm]

Who cares? Having more wars is better, not worst.

Let the good times roll.