Haflinger Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 bkphysics, other than #3 and #6 I think you're wrong. The reason being that most of the other ideas you propose would mean there were fewer wars. If there's one thing that Karma's been consistent on, it's that they're not fighting to stop wars from happening. Most argue the exact opposite. #4 is something that always happens on the losing side in these big wars. I don't see it happening on the winning side this time either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Frostbite is most certainly NOT a part of any 'Karma' movement. We fought on a side of the war due to treaty obligations, but that's as far as we are involved. STA called themselves part of Karma and NSO were active on the karma forums and IRC including discussion of peace terms and overall Karma strategy. since TLC didn't exist at the time that means 2/3rds of possible frostbite alliances were active within Karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 STA called themselves part of Karma and NSO were active on the karma forums and IRC including discussion of peace terms and overall Karma strategy. since TLC didn't exist at the time that means 2/3rds of possible frostbite alliances were active within Karma. To be fair NSO said from the start that they were not a part of karma in any way. I would find it really dubious if STA tried to back out of being part of karma though. They've been one of the more outspoken ones in this even if they didn't join in on much of the fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Karma is a joke of a "coalition." I have no respect for any person who calls themselves a leader of karma. They don't deserve any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facade Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Karma is a military alliance. They have no responsibility beyond defeating the common enemy. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) Most of Karma lack the moral authority to shape a better tomorrow. Their decision to permanently disable or destroy NPO has seen to that. If there is to be a brighter future it will come from Citadel, Frostbite or some regrouping of the losing side in the Karma war.In the Karma war Karma blamed the allies of NPO for helping them do as they pleased. The same should be true for all of Karma in this war, if they dont openly oppose where the grouping is going they are just as guilty for any crimes that might be committed. Oh you and your crazy theories. Karma is a joke of a "coalition."I have no respect for any person who calls themselves a leader of karma. They don't deserve any. Rajistani seems to think there's a leader in logs of #mushroom. All hail Archon, Glorious and Dearest Leader of the Karma Revolution! Edited June 4, 2009 by Rey the Great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 This again? Seriously? /me sighs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Most of Karma lack the moral authority to shape a better tomorrow. Their decision to permanently disable or destroy NPO has seen to that. If there is to be a brighter future it will come from Citadel, Frostbite or some regrouping of the losing side in the Karma war. I don't think the bolded part work very well with the rest of your post since that'd make the hegemony side responsible for destruction of alliances and thus not fit for being a moral authority by your own reasoning. In the Karma war Karma blamed the allies of NPO for helping them do as they pleased. The same should be true for all of Karma in this war, if they dont openly oppose where the grouping is going they are just as guilty for any crimes that might be committed. I missed the part where BAPS and most others that only joined through treaty obligations were held responsible for NPOs actions. If you're just refering to their MADP partners then yes if you sign a MADP with a alliance with that history you burn your "just following treaty" card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Näktergal Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Your "game changer" is in another coalition. I'm actually curious to see what Citadel does in the coming months. There was always a LOT of talk there about trying to forge a better, more honorable CN, both through example and a willingness to fight against tyranny, but that mentality tended to get muted by more pragmatic concerns, and the fact that Citadel didn't necessarily have the raw power it would need to really stand up to the worst offenders. Now that the political landscape has changed, I'm very interested as to whether or not the reformer mentality gains ground and Citadel as a whole attempts to actively work towards shaping a better CN, or if the pragmatic elements grow even stronger in a multi-polar world. Most of Karma lack the moral authority to shape a better tomorrow. The problem is, "moral authority" has been a joke in CN for years now. Almost invariably, ANYONE attempting to invoke the moral high-ground to justify ANY action didn't even remotely possess it. But if you shout about honor and rights and justice long enough and loud enough, you can usually convince at least a few people that you're in the right. Very few battles in CN history have been a clear case of "good" versus "evil" or "honor" versus "injustice" - usually, it's just a question of heavily-armed people not liking each other very much. Like it or not, "might makes right" has been the rule of law in CN since January of 2006, and the current war isn't even remotely going to change that - it's just going to change who has the might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Elecian Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Like what was said earlier on, Karma will not stay together after the NPO surrenders. For those of us that aren't in the loop of what is happening within Karma, what exactly are the "signs" of cracking within karma that shows it will fall apart? However, going on the moral authority argument I will also agree that alot of Karma doesn't really have it in the case since some allliances were either bandwagoning other alliances or they were just honoring MDPs with other alliances. (then again that can also be said of those on the side of hegemony) I am not trying to defend the NPO here I am simply stating my opinion on the matter. Then there is also the massive flaming of those within the NPO and making them "pay for the crimes of their alliance" since there are people that weren't around for the times that they crushed alliances such as GATO, Legion, LUE, GOONS, etc. And to sum up the post Karma war, with the NPO and the continuum "out of the way", there will most likely be smaller wars between alliances that have grudges against each other and I will also agree that smaller blocs will be part of the "new and more fluid status quo". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Karma is a joke of a "coalition."I have no respect for any person who calls themselves a leader of karma. They don't deserve any. you have lost the respect of cole hamels atronaut jones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Karma is a joke of a "coalition."I have no respect for any person who calls themselves a leader of karma. They don't deserve any. If defeating what had been a game dominating bloc is not enough to earn your respect, then I have no idea what actions possibly could. That said, no one gives a damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'm getting really tired of people complaining that 95% white peace/light reps is apparently not good enough. If you want to do better in our situation, feel free to do so when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I don't think any of us have any real desire to stay together after this is done. That being said, the alliances engaged with NPO have absolutely no problem working together, from what I've seen. What happens after this is pretty much the responsibility of individual blocs and alliances. They have only managed to work together on the battlefield thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buds The Man Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Karma has no responsibility other than to conduct them selves as they see fit. Each alliance that joined the coalition has a responsibility to themselves and no other. When peace terms come down it falls upon those who have fought that front to decide. The only thing is that this war will be remembered by all and as new wars come around conduct from this war will be remembered and used for precedence when terms are discussed. So i guess the short answer is NO Karma has no real power structure no governing body so how could you hold them responsible for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Just when I start thinking I'm just wizzin in the wind and nobody's gonna get the point, here comes Bud proving that somebody knows the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIADO Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Better than what? Are you implying that your allies made something wrong?To answer your question after the war every alliance will be responsible for their actions. Karma as a whole can't be held responsible for every alliance on bob that's not even part of them. I'd be really happy if we saw a better bob after this war but making it karmas responsibility to do that for winning a defensive war isn't right. Regardless I don't think GDA has any place to tell others to take risks for what they belive in. This is my personal opinion only and not GDAs general membership or government . I just see a possible opportunity for the leaders of the alliances ,to give planet bob a better future and to seed further new moral standards in CN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkphysics Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Karma has no responsibility other than to conduct them selves as they see fit. Each alliance that joined the coalition has a responsibility to themselves and no other. When peace terms come down it falls upon those who have fought that front to decide. The only thing is that this war will be remembered by all and as new wars come around conduct from this war will be remembered and used for precedence when terms are discussed. So i guess the short answer is NO Karma has no real power structure no governing body so how could you hold them responsible for anything. Good ol' Bud ... making it clear and concise. Thank you good sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 This is my personal opinion only and not GDAs general membership or government .I just see a possible opportunity for the leaders of the alliances ,to give planet bob a better future and to seed further new moral standards in CN. I know this is your personal opinion but you're still a GDA member. You didn't answer my question. Who do karma need to be act better than to bring about a better future? Better than NPO? Because if that's what you mean I'd like to remind you that you're in an alliance that's one of their few remaining MADP partners thus still showing full support for their actions. Might wanna reconcider your choice of alliance if you feel this strongly about harsh terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poet Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 "better" is a very subjective word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Nope, Karma is full of themselves with all the change talk. Even they admit it now though they try to cover their asses by saying they never said anything about change or being the good guys. I guess they think we all forgot about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Even they admit it now though they try to cover their asses by saying they never said anything about change or being the good guys. Hypocrites and now liars too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o ya baby Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 My, my my. So many sore butts in this thread. You guys are getting what you deserve. Suck it up and take it like men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossGarner Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 My, my my. So many sore butts in this thread. You guys are getting what you deserve. Suck it up and take it like men. Do something about it posts already? Buds hit the nail on the head in regards to responsibilities or other ideals. Those parties that formed or still form Karma haven't even had their chance to make a mark on the game, in time we'll see how the game evolves without a superbloc sitting in the middle of everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Do something about it posts already? More like "stop bawwing". Nice try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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