New Polar Order Declaration of War

[New Frontier]

Which part of it baffles you?

You, at least as much as anyone else can understand the feeling when the whole world turns on you. That sinking moment when you look around and there is just you and a handful of really good friends, totally outnumbered, totally out gunned and totally overwhelmed by hate and blood lust.

Did NV, Genesis, GR, CCC, OcUK etc deserve to be beaten back to primeval sludge for being friends with Polaris? Did STA honestly deserve the relentless smashing and crippling terms they received? Did Polaris, honestly?

I know the answers and therefore I view this situation, objectively, with no resort to the past and the alleged crimes, half of which are crapola. I do not like this war, I do not like the world gang banging anyone and I do not like the venom spewing out of the mouth of many of the Karma alliances, most of who wouldn't have the guts to face any opponent head on let alone the NPO.

I resent the people who betrayed their friends for months and months, shaking hands in public whilst stabbing their mate in the back. I resent the secret meetings, the leaked logs and all the drama... all of which was denied, pushed aside or covered up with a removal or two. Karma is a !@#$%*, and just as it has rolled over the NPO, so expect the treachery of those who claim the moral high ground in this matter, whilst being scumbag traitors in reality, to be repaid at some stage.

Let me say, I have a great deal of respect for MK and Archon and indeed, Gramlins and LM in this matter. IF left to them, I am sure I would be more comfortable with this action, but that is not what I see. There are deals in place, secret handshakes, public statements of justice and fairness for all, whilst the reality will eventually show that most of you are just opportunists who will take whatever they can get when you think it is safe to get it.

Two legs good, four legs bad... time will tell, but from where I sit in this matter, that's how I see it. Prove me wrong and I will be happy to be wrong.

And this is why the Republic, too, is not a part of Karma.

[jajistan]

I smell male bovine excrement.

Vive la revolution! Down with the imperialists.

[hizzy]

Which part of it baffles you?

You, at least as much as anyone else can understand the feeling when the whole world turns on you. That sinking moment when you look around and there is just you and a handful of really good friends, totally outnumbered, totally out gunned and totally overwhelmed by hate and blood lust.

Did NV, Genesis, GR, CCC, OcUK etc deserve to be beaten back to primeval sludge for being friends with Polaris? Did STA honestly deserve the relentless smashing and crippling terms they received? Did Polaris, honestly?

I know the answers and therefore I view this situation, objectively, with no resort to the past and the alleged crimes, half of which are crapola. I do not like this war, I do not like the world gang banging anyone and I do not like the venom spewing out of the mouth of many of the Karma alliances, most of who wouldn't have the guts to face any opponent head on let alone the NPO.

I resent the people who betrayed their friends for months and months, shaking hands in public whilst stabbing their mate in the back. I resent the secret meetings, the leaked logs and all the drama... all of which was denied, pushed aside or covered up with a removal or two. Karma is a !@#$%*, and just as it has rolled over the NPO, so expect the treachery of those who claim the moral high ground in this matter, whilst being scumbag traitors in reality, to be repaid at some stage.

Let me say, I have a great deal of respect for MK and Archon and indeed, Gramlins and LM in this matter. IF left to them, I am sure I would be more comfortable with this action, but that is not what I see. There are deals in place, secret handshakes, public statements of justice and fairness for all, whilst the reality will eventually show that most of you are just opportunists who will take whatever they can get when you think it is safe to get it.

Two legs good, four legs bad... time will tell, but from where I sit in this matter, that's how I see it. Prove me wrong and I will be happy to be wrong.

A few points Grub;

1) If you look back at the START of this war, you'll see this was a head-on action, and a fairly even one at that. Karma's side had a slight advantage in numbers, but hardly anything near what Polaris faced. This has turned into a gang bang by the Hegemony side's own lack in tactics and preparation, amplified by their affinity for infrastructure which led them to surrender at the slightest hint of a loss. This is, however, not a surprise. When an entire coalition is made up of alliances who only fight with uneven odds and with a large army backing them up, it's only par for the course that they crumble under the slightest of pressure.

2) This was a defensive action by Karma. If anything in this war "sealed the deal" it was NPO's attack on OV. I don't know what they were thinking, but they hit an alliance expecting a beautiful sunday stroll through a park, and what they got was an MDP web that didn't shatter at the first sign of threat, which is again, unlike the one they found themselves relying on.

3) I'm not sure who this secret handshake thing is directed to, but since you quoted PD, I'll reply on his and Nueva Vida's behalf and simply ask; did anyone, ever, at any point in time, even slightly wonder where Nueva Vida stood? Didn't think so. If anybody wants to "repay" Nueva Vida for being as potently clear in our position as we have been, I'll be glad to take that hit and keep rolling.

*edited for grammar

Edited May 5, 2009 by hizzy

[Shovel]

Which part of it baffles you?

You, at least as much as anyone else can understand the feeling when the whole world turns on you. That sinking moment when you look around and there is just you and a handful of really good friends, totally outnumbered, totally out gunned and totally overwhelmed by hate and blood lust.

Did NV, Genesis, GR, CCC, OcUK etc deserve to be beaten back to primeval sludge for being friends with Polaris? Did STA honestly deserve the relentless smashing and crippling terms they received? Did Polaris, honestly?

I know the answers and therefore I view this situation, objectively, with no resort to the past and the alleged crimes, half of which are crapola. I do not like this war, I do not like the world gang banging anyone and I do not like the venom spewing out of the mouth of many of the Karma alliances, most of who wouldn't have the guts to face any opponent head on let alone the NPO.

I resent the people who betrayed their friends for months and months, shaking hands in public whilst stabbing their mate in the back. I resent the secret meetings, the leaked logs and all the drama... all of which was denied, pushed aside or covered up with a removal or two. Karma is a !@#$%*, and just as it has rolled over the NPO, so expect the treachery of those who claim the moral high ground in this matter, whilst being scumbag traitors in reality, to be repaid at some stage.

Let me say, I have a great deal of respect for MK and Archon and indeed, Gramlins and LM in this matter. IF left to them, I am sure I would be more comfortable with this action, but that is not what I see. There are deals in place, secret handshakes, public statements of justice and fairness for all, whilst the reality will eventually show that most of you are just opportunists who will take whatever they can get when you think it is safe to get it.

Two legs good, four legs bad... time will tell, but from where I sit in this matter, that's how I see it. Prove me wrong and I will be happy to be wrong.

You seem to resent everything that the NPO and Valhalla did to you, yet you are still allied to them? You talk out against Karma for the things you perceive them to be committing, yet you are ok buddying up with NPO and Valhalla which have committed the acts you speak of to a greater extent.

[neneko]

[...]many of the Karma alliances, most of who wouldn't have the guts to face any opponent head on let alone the NPO.

This part bugs me the most about your hatefilled post. As someone that have been in every GW since GW 3 and paid reps to NPO & c/o since GW 2 (yes not participating in the war or in a alliance tied to the war in any way doesn't exclude you from being extorted). I do not like at all what you're insinuating. You're completely right in that a much smaller alliance wouldn't want to attack NPO by themselves because they'd be crushed. When several alliances cooperate to even out the numbers they're cowards? The sides in this war is alot more even than any of NPOs curbstomps have ever been.

I get that you don't want to be associated with the karma side you made that clear but if you're going to spit on the warriors on the battle field from your high horse you could have just kept your troops at home and your mouth shut.

Your post sickens me and so do you. What you're showing is nothing but cowardice and disrespect to the ones that are fighting this war.

Sitting on the sidelines and spitting on the people fighting, calling them cowards is not bravery in any form and you should get off your high horses before you fall.

[hizzy]

Sitting on the sidelines and spitting on the people fighting, calling them cowards is not bravery in any form and you should get off your high horses before you fall.

While I understand why you're upset, please keep in mind that you're posting this in an NpO DoW, so it's safe to assume they're not sitting on the sidelines.

[neneko]

While I understand why you're upset, please keep in mind that you're posting this in an NpO DoW, so it's safe to assume they're not sitting on the sidelines.

I am fully aware that they declared war on a 20 man alliance. They have 379 nations under their AA at the time of this post. They are sitting on the sidelines.

Edited May 5, 2009 by neneko

[Ragashingo]

This part bugs me the most about your hatefilled post. As someone that have been in every GW since GW 3 and paid reps to NPO & c/o since GW 2 (yes not participating in the war or in a alliance tied to the war in any way doesn't exclude you from being extorted). I do not like at all what you're insinuating. You're completely right in that a much smaller alliance wouldn't want to attack NPO by themselves because they'd be crushed. When several alliances cooperate to even out the numbers they're cowards? The sides in this war is alot more even than any of NPOs curbstomps have ever been.

I get that you don't want to be associated with the karma side you made that clear but if you're going to spit on the warriors on the battle field from your high horse you could have just kept your troops at home and your mouth shut.

Your post sickens me and so do you. What you're showing is nothing but cowardice and disrespect to the ones that are fighting this war.

Sitting on the sidelines and spitting on the people fighting, calling them cowards is not bravery in any form and you should get off your high horses before you fall.

While I think you were overly harsh I do agree with your basic point here. This war is not a curbstomp like we saw against GATO or the NpO or many others. It may not be a perfectly even war, but at least it is an actual, fair, honest, two sided war. Sure nobody went and challenged the NPO before now, but then they also saw what happened to those that did (or even didn't!). Who wants their alliance held captive politically for a year? Who wants their alliance destroyed then taunted for two years?

The fact that individual alliances did not start a suicidal fight with the NPO years ago is not indicative of a lack of guts, but of an abundance of brains. Adding themselves to the list of curbstomped alliances would have served no purpose, helping out in this war will. Can you really fault those small alliances helping in this war if their support assists in bringing about the end of E/P ZI, the end to curbstomps, the end to harsh reperations?

I for one cannot.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Ragashingo

[oinkoink12]

Welcome to last year for quite a few of us. Put your big boy pants on and deal with it. You Continuum types want to have it both ways, you want to be able to tell people "do something about it" whenever it's your people trashing someone else but when someone does it to you, oh pooooor you. Man up.

I guess your right, but everybody does it

[Electron Sponge]

I guess your right, but everybody does it

Nice sig!

It's things like this that tell me we've already won.

protip: Next time find the image of Captain Murphy with a mouse where his brain should be and make the joke about cheese

[shahenshah]

This just baffles me

Why are you baffled? Most of the harsh terms that were set on NpO were almost entirely by alliances on Karma side. We were too involved in that war, but as I recall, we waivered our reps from NV..yes but NV were indeed beaten down by us and I do not claim like we were not in that war. And so Grub does not needs to be on Hegemony side either. He has taken a neutral stance purely on objective basis, probably among the genuine stance which has been in minority lately. I cannot recall waivers for NpO, I might be wrong, and I must insist Gramlins actually paid for their tech.

Edited May 5, 2009 by shahenshah

[shahenshah]

A few points Grub;

1) If you look back at the START of this war, you'll see this was a head-on action, and a fairly even one at that. Karma's side had a slight advantage in numbers, but hardly anything near what Polaris faced. This has turned into a gang bang by the Hegemony side's own lack in tactics and preparation, amplified by their affinity for infrastructure which led them to surrender at the slightest hint of a loss. This is, however, not a surprise. When an entire coalition is made up of alliances who only fight with uneven odds and with a large army backing them up, it's only par for the course that they crumble under the slightest of pressure.

*edited for grammar

What? What really stacked the numbers was entry of MHA, Sparta, TOP and Gramlins. The outcome of war would have been very very different otherwise. Before, when crunching numbers was the international sports of the day, it looked certain alliances may/hope not enter due to treaties on both sides. Some sides openly posted that certain treaties will be clearly ignored.

Regarding lack of preparation and tactics, I do not think that is correct. Things were getting heated..that is why you will find some people saying things about war for a long time and people were preparing. Several alliances had started preparing for war in late Jan, and it was obvious by end of feb, most of the alliances were arming up. We were not however expecting to wake up and suddenly find ourselves in war. So if that is something you are referring to then perhaps yes.

Edited May 5, 2009 by shahenshah

[empirica]

What? What really stacked the numbers was entry of MHA, Sparta, TOP and Gramlins. The outcome of war would have been very very different otherwise. Before, when crunching numbers was the international sports of the day, it looked certain alliances may/hope not enter due to treaties on both sides. Some sides openly posted that certain treaties will be clearly ignored.

Regarding lack of preparation and tactics, I do not think that is correct. Things were getting heated..that is why you will find some people saying things about war for a long time and people were preparing. Several alliances had started preparing for war in late Jan, and it was obvious by end of feb, most of the alliances were arming up. We were not however expecting to wake up and suddenly find ourselves in war. So if that is something you are referring to then perhaps yes.

While I won't try to downplay the significance of MHA, Sparta, TOP, and Gramlins entrance.. I can't say that was the biggest shock or problem for the opposing side. (I really hate calling you guys the Hegemony, come up with something different that sticks please!). The biggest problem, from all appearances, is that when strategies were discussed, it was assumed everyone would more or less honor their treaties. When push came to shove, many treaties on that side were canceled instead of activated. While many of the treaty terminating alliances did come to the field of battle eventually, it was a bit too late. Not only did that side lose the element of being prepared at the right moment, but they lost more due to PR and morale. Without knowing the cultures of many of the alliances involved, I don't know that the last played a big part. But I would think it would have an effect.

Also, in case I haven't said it elsewhere:

I understand and respect Grub's stance on this war. Polaris was put into a difficult situation, and have made the best call they can for themselves and their allies.

[hizzy]

What? What really stacked the numbers was entry of MHA, Sparta, TOP and Gramlins. The outcome of war would have been very very different otherwise. Before, when crunching numbers was the international sports of the day, it looked certain alliances may/hope not enter due to treaties on both sides. Some sides openly posted that certain treaties will be clearly ignored.

Regarding lack of preparation and tactics, I do not think that is correct. Things were getting heated..that is why you will find some people saying things about war for a long time and people were preparing. Several alliances had started preparing for war in late Jan, and it was obvious by end of feb, most of the alliances were arming up. We were not however expecting to wake up and suddenly find ourselves in war. So if that is something you are referring to then perhaps yes.

With regards to the numbers, I haven't done the number crunching myself, but I believe it was BobJanova who posted somewhere (maybe in this thread?) that the initial combatants had the numbers at 80 vs 93 (million NS), and it was only after a week that the Karma side really ballooned due to treaties coming into play, while on the Hegemony side treaties were either canceled, or people were surrendering faster than treaties were being activated.

As for the preparation, even with the increased tension since the winter (side note: lol @ tC claiming everything is wonderfully delicious the whole time), a lot of alliances were simply not prepared for war. Perhaps larger ones like your own, maybe, but a lot of the smaller alliances didn't have the resources to last the war, and they were ready to throw in the towel before even 1 round was up. Hell, one of GGA's 2 WRC holders had a 1 Mil. warchest (and let's not get into the rest of their issues), and their entry into the war was arguably one of the worst blitzes I've ever seen. MCXA toppled like a house of cards built on a foundation of ghosts. These are key players that could have made a HUGE difference in the war (even a losing war), but they couldn't pull their own weight. Being in your shoes must suck balls because now not only do you have to watch your front against however many alliances have declared on you, but you have to watch your back too because the people you're counting on can't pull it together.

And believe me, you may not have been ready to wake up to a war, but people on this side of the fence did not have much more fore-warning than you did. The ONLY people who knew there would be war that night was NPO.

[Zephir]

What's this I hear about NpO being DOOMed?

Have fun kicking their assets, DOOM. It will be a glorious battle to be sure.

\o DOOM

P.S. Hahaha! Allergy medicine high.

[pd73bassman]

Why are you baffled? Most of the harsh terms that were set on NpO were almost entirely by alliances on Karma side. We were too involved in that war, but as I recall, we waivered our reps from NV..yes but NV were indeed beaten down by us and I do not claim like we were not in that war. And so Grub does not needs to be on Hegemony side either. He has taken a neutral stance purely on objective basis, probably among the genuine stance which has been in minority lately. I cannot recall waivers for NpO, I might be wrong, and I must insist Gramlins actually paid for their tech.

Well why you are quoting me I will never know?

Unless you are an ex-Polar member you won't understand what I meant

[pd73bassman]

Which part of it baffles you?

You, at least as much as anyone else can understand the feeling when the whole world turns on you. That sinking moment when you look around and there is just you and a handful of really good friends, totally outnumbered, totally out gunned and totally overwhelmed by hate and blood lust.

Did NV, Genesis, GR, CCC, OcUK etc deserve to be beaten back to primeval sludge for being friends with Polaris? Did STA honestly deserve the relentless smashing and crippling terms they received? Did Polaris, honestly?

I know the answers and therefore I view this situation, objectively, with no resort to the past and the alleged crimes, half of which are crapola. I do not like this war, I do not like the world gang banging anyone and I do not like the venom spewing out of the mouth of many of the Karma alliances, most of who wouldn't have the guts to face any opponent head on let alone the NPO.

I resent the people who betrayed their friends for months and months, shaking hands in public whilst stabbing their mate in the back. I resent the secret meetings, the leaked logs and all the drama... all of which was denied, pushed aside or covered up with a removal or two. Karma is a !@#$%*, and just as it has rolled over the NPO, so expect the treachery of those who claim the moral high ground in this matter, whilst being scumbag traitors in reality, to be repaid at some stage.

Let me say, I have a great deal of respect for MK and Archon and indeed, Gramlins and LM in this matter. IF left to them, I am sure I would be more comfortable with this action, but that is not what I see. There are deals in place, secret handshakes, public statements of justice and fairness for all, whilst the reality will eventually show that most of you are just opportunists who will take whatever they can get when you think it is safe to get it.

Two legs good, four legs bad... time will tell, but from where I sit in this matter, that's how I see it. Prove me wrong and I will be happy to be wrong.

The part that baffles me is that you still persist on backing people who have went out of there way to see you destroyed and pretend to be your friend when it is convenient, I am truly sorry you don't see that, I know others in your circle do. But either way I care less now

[TheEraser]

never mind. nothing to see here.

Edited May 6, 2009 by elborrador