New Polar Order Declaration of War

[ryu]

I fail to see how declaring war on anyone is the act of a coward.

Really?? You have never accused anyone that is bandwaggoning of being a coward?

[wesley]

I fail to see how declaring war on anyone is the act of a coward.

ooc: It may not be the most taxing war in the world but not every day provides you with the Normandy invasion. Sometimes you're just intervening in Haiti.

Lol, indeed. Then again, this is more like a world power beating up some kids on the playground.

[Melon Lube]

Ah, indeed I did not see that DOOM declared on NSO. I am having problems (OOC: No internet at home) keeping up to date with all the declarations.

Needless to say, I don't quite understand why you two are so outraged by this. The New Polar Order is hardly cowards. We have made our intentions extremely clear from the beginning and you seem intent on ignored this, instead spouting the same line over and over.

Because the "lines we are spouting" are legitimate questions. If the NpO came in because the STA attacked DOOM out of treaty requirements, that exact same obligation should have required them to attack Molon Labe with the STA as well.

[Melon Lube]

I fail to see how declaring war on anyone is the act of a coward.

ooc: It may not be the most taxing war in the world but not every day provides you with the Normandy invasion. Sometimes you're just intervening in Haiti.

It is their not declaring on ML when the STA came to MK's defense that is the act of a coward.

[Electron Sponge]

Really?? You have never accused anyone that is bandwaggoning of being a coward?

I generally don't use the word coward to describe anyone who is fighting. My example of cowardice is ODN ditching its treaty with Polar on the eve of war. Honoring a treaty, even if it means not much damage or sacrifice on your part, is in no way cowardice.

Take your lumps and stop calling people names. I think you'll find Polar to be a fun and engaging opponent. It's not like you're having to deal with those super aggressive NPO types who will mock you via ingame message for not being able to fight back. Enjoy getting all the wars you can handle. These things don't come around often.

[Electron Sponge]

It is their not declaring on ML when the STA came to MK's defense that is the act of a coward.

Well, this war isn't over yet. Perhaps the Imperial Regent is waiting for the Emperor's return to make a final call on that one?

[ryu]

I have no issue with being at war and am enjoying the tussle against my NpO'ers! I marched head on into this conflict with no concern.

Don't twist the points I raised into squealing about getting curb stomped.

[bzelger]

Because the "lines we are spouting" are legitimate questions. If the NpO came in because the STA attacked DOOM out of treaty requirements, that exact same obligation should have required them to attack Molon Labe with the STA as well.

There is no obligation in either case. Their assistance was not solicited - it was optional and offered. I cannot presume to speak for Polar, so I cannot address your concern in full. I would like to point out though, that the number of nations versus number of nations in this theater of conflict does not tell the whole story. The STA is not an especially high ANS alliance; most of our nations that could engage DOOM are in nuclear anarchy, and we were hard-pressed to scrape up enough forces to hit just those DOOMers who had declared on our Sith brethren.

I'm not pretending that our back was to the wall by any means, but Polar is providing a very real assistance to us here, and also to a much greater degree than they would have in our first round.

[Melon Lube]

Well, this war isn't over yet. Perhaps the Imperial Regent is waiting for the Emperor's return to make a final call on that one?

That war was declared on Saturday or Sunday, surely the emperor has been around since then.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Melon Lube

[The Corporal]

DOOM and Molon Labe both honored their treaties in an uphill war. I would say that regardless of your size, you are significant to many people.

I can't imagine this requiring a lengthy war or peace terms. You're here to honor your treaties as are we, and that is respectable. Given the circumstances, it's noted that your actions in upholding the treaty required a considerably greater amount of courage than ours did. I'd like nothing more than to see you and all of your allies satisfy your duty to one another and find swift peace.

Thank you, this is what I expected based on my prior knowledge of NpO.

Well, self-mutiliation is bad too and gross!

We're sadomasochists. Just ask Burt.

I would call some group picking a fight with guys, knowing that they're bigger and stronger than them, an act of self-mutiliation. And that's what doom is doing and what a lot of meanies are encouraging them to do.

We weren't encouraged by anyone or anything other than our own sense of honor. A lot of alliances caught major $#!^ for canceling treaties on the eve of war. ML and DOOM chose a better path, one where we don't use our treaties as toilet paper, and except for a few people here and there (like yourself) we're recognized as having done the right thing. If our allies had the upper hand in this battle we would have done the same thing, but they didn't and we still went ahead, knowing what would happen to our nations. I can see how a nubbie like you may not understand that in context of Planet Bob [OOC:, but it's something you might want to file away for use elsewhere in RL].

The STA and NSO have an MDP. We declared on you because you attacked our ally and we were sworn to assist as we could. Much the same as you assisting ML via your treaties. You may argue our assistance is pointless as it will not change the result of the war but, I could say the same of you stepping in to defend Molon Labe.

Touché, salesman.

Since I am too entranced by your flag, Polaris (which is btw, I it), I will just wish you happy hunting. o/

To DOOM, I will say this ... you are DOOM'ed, leave while you still can

*Shakyr goes back to staring at the shiny flag

I think you've been staring at the flag too long ....DOOM and ML ride together until the allies we came do defend are finished - either via destruction or peace, either works for us.

Talk about an axis of awesome - Polar and two alliances led by former Polar emperors acting in union... cool stuff.

What's cooler than cool? Ice cold.

You are ignoring the second point I have brought up. We have no desire to influence this conflict. We are not Karma, we are not Hegemony, we are something completely different.

Rolling with STA on Molon Labe would have helped our friends yes, but so would rolling against MCXA with AZTEC, or GRAN/VA and others with ARES/Genesis, or GR, or even rolling with Pacifica against OV. We selected a largely limited front, where we wont be influencing the outcome of this war, where we can prevent minimal damages to our friends.

That's all this is, nothing more, nothing less.

This is the explanation I was looking for. I can understand how having close friends on both sides of the war really sucks and, while I still disagree with your choice of targets, I'm not nearly as mad about the declaration as I was last night.

There is no obligation in either case. Their assistance was not solicited - it was optional and offered. I cannot presume to speak for Polar, so I cannot address your concern in full. I would like to point out though, that the number of nations versus number of nations in this theater of conflict does not tell the whole story. The STA is not an especially high ANS alliance; most of our nations that could engage DOOM are in nuclear anarchy, and we were hard-pressed to scrape up enough forces to hit just those DOOMers who had declared on our Sith brethren.

I'm not pretending that our back was to the wall by any means, but Polar is providing a very real assistance to us here, and also to a much greater degree than they would have in our first round.

This is also understandable, some times it's easy to forget that other alliances aren't also as gifted with high ANS like we are were.

[Melon Lube]

There is no obligation in either case. Their assistance was not solicited - it was optional and offered. I cannot presume to speak for Polar, so I cannot address your concern in full. I would like to point out though, that the number of nations versus number of nations in this theater of conflict does not tell the whole story. The STA is not an especially high ANS alliance; most of our nations that could engage DOOM are in nuclear anarchy, and we were hard-pressed to scrape up enough forces to hit just those DOOMers who had declared on our Sith brethren.

I'm not pretending that our back was to the wall by any means, but Polar is providing a very real assistance to us here, and also to a much greater degree than they would have in our first round.

I'm not going argue with you bzelger. I've gained too much respect for the STA and you personally to put that on the line over this.

Edit: After reading, this post seems crappy, but read it as it's written. Out of respect I really don't want to argue with you.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Melon Lube

[Paradigm]

Okay this is pretty damn funny. STA needed to bring in a Masked alliance to fight a 20 man protectorate...

Feel free to outline for the class all the wars TPF fought that were not part of a 10:1 offensive curbstomp again?

I see no problem using ones allies legally in a legitimate war.

[Stonewall14]

I haven't been anarchy yet even though one of your members, a STA member, and my target attacked all at once when I was asleep. B)

(But my war chest is bleeding lots of money... )

Yeah thanks for the 4 million I got with this round of attacks...

[mhawk]

Feel free to outline for the class all the wars TPF fought that were not part of a 10:1 offensive curbstomp again?

I see no problem using ones allies legally in a legitimate war.

How about you look up my wars. Name one TPF war under my command that was as you describe?

HoTU vs Elysium

[bzelger]

I'm not going argue with you bzelger. I've gained too much respect for the STA and you personally to put that on the line over this.

Edit: After reading, this post seems crappy, but read it as it's written. Out of respect I really don't want to argue with you.

I'm flattered. You guys are the classiest outfit I've ever fought against, I have to say. You garner no ill will from me for arguing the case for your protectorate here, though.

[Jens of the desert]

Pretty flag is pretty.

Good luck to Polaris

[HeinousOne]

You know, this is all pretty cut and dry. ML is completely covered on their defensive slots. Polar attacking them would be completely symbolic at this point as they would have no one to attack. DOOM is a different case though, surprisingly for a protectorate they have quite a few high NS nations. As was said most of our high NS nations are in nuclear anarchy thanks to our new friends in ML so they are unable to help our friends over at NSO. Nonetheless STA will declare in aid of our close friends and do what we can. Our other friends in NpO asked if we would need help in such and despite the nation numbers we actually did need some help to cover the attack slots on DOOM's higher nations.

That is what Polar did, they came to the aid of their closest friends when it was needed and ONLY when it was needed. If they were bandwagoning they would have declared on ML.

I have to say I have grown to respect ML quite a bit and I am willing to transfer that respect to DOOM as ML seems to think they are good people. So far though that respect is being widdled away by the atrocity I see of them and some ML folks calling our great friends at Polar cowards.

Are you kidding me???

If you wish to know the depths of NpO honor you could still be given a war that they were given and terms they were given. Wish to relive history? I doubt you do so please take a good hard look at what is really going on with this. We all respect what you guys are doing as it is mirrorlike of what NpO and STA had to go through in the last war but enough with the empty insults.

Edited April 30, 2009 by HeinousOne

[Buds The Man]

Heh, at this point I think you guys just want to be able to brag about some insane odds against you when this is all over. How many nations would you guys be taking on then?

Kidding of course, not much you guys can do about it at this point. A shame your Bloc friends cannot or will not help you in this.

Their bloc friends are here and are in the same situation they are mainly in NUKE anarchy. Do not think that we are not watching our Duck roll bretheren closely.

You know.... Just throwing this out there for all the DOOM, ML and hell even TPF folks... You don't have to be at war right now.

It is not like the forces you are fighting are looking to crush you. This war has never been about you.

To my friends in Polaris, Hail and well met. It is a pleasure to fight by your side one more time.

LOL the bolded part made me laugh after the reference to TPF in the above line. You wanted us all in this you thirsted for it now you have it. If this war hadnt been about more than NPO, the whole "Coward Coalition" theme would have never been unfairly created. DOOM fight hard against the odds you will not be forgotten.

To throw a quick thought to Melon Lube. In all fairness if NpO were to have attacked you directly it would have conflicted the treaty with Valhalla. Im not an e-lawyer but I would assume that had come in to question. While im sad to see Polar come in like this I do understand they are honoring their closest ally. To a good fight DOOM you have great protectors and are being noticed by more people than you know.

o/ DOOM

o/ ML

[HeinousOne]

Their bloc friends are here and are in the same situation they are mainly in NUKE anarchy. Do not think that we are not watching our Duck roll bretheren closely.

LOL the bolded part made me laugh after the reference to TPF in the above line. You wanted us all in this you thirsted for it now you have it. If this war hadnt been about more than NPO, the whole "Coward Coalition" theme would have never been unfairly created. DOOM fight hard against the odds you will not be forgotten.

To throw a quick thought to Melon Lube. In all fairness if NpO were to have attacked you directly it would have conflicted the treaty with Valhalla. Im not an e-lawyer but I would assume that had come in to question. While im sad to see Polar come in like this I do understand they are honoring their closest ally. To a good fight DOOM you have great protectors and are being noticed by more people than you know.

o/ DOOM

o/ ML

To your first comment, TORN took themselves out of the war, no nuke anarchy there. Valhalla would not enter the war against even NSO as that would bring in us and thus you have that same situation you explain in your second comment. That leaves only IRON and yes, they are very busy. This is just another reason why I feel for the situation that ML is in. They have pretty much been isolated due to their blocmates signing other treaties or taking themselves out of the fight at the beginning of the war.

Yes, everyone is watching ML and now DOOM because everyone can empathize with how hard this situation must be for them.

[BraveNewWorld]

There was no reason to roll with STA against ML because at that point it was still a Karma vs Hegemony war. It was a declaration by STA that they made of their own choice. We are two separate alliances afterall and regardless of STAs political position in this war, we do not fight for Karma.

However, once NSO and STA joined as a front, which they effectively did in their attack on ML, an attack on NSO became an attack on STA. Imagine for a moment that DOOM were a 500 person sanctioned alliance. They might think that they could declare on only NSO to avoid the wrath of Polaris, even though this declaration would effectively wipe out STAs partners and isolates them in their wars. Polaris enters now to send a message, to make it clear that we will not let this happen. The fact that DOOM is not a 500 person alliances does not matter. We declare on principle. We declare our intention to not allow attacks which could harm our twinkie loving tiger friends.

[YohanElus]

How about you look up my wars. Name one TPF war under my command that was as you describe?

HoTU vs Elysium

Heh, that was a fun war

Welcome to the war I guess Polar.

Edited April 30, 2009 by YohanElus

[Dr. Dan]

Polaris and Paradoxia figthing on the "same side". Hell really has frozen over.

[Smacky]

Polaris and Paradoxia figthing on the "same side". Hell really has frozen over.

To be fair, you both go to ludicrous lengths expressing beyond all doubt that neither of you are "fighting on the side of Karma". You know, just your treaty obligations.

[HeinousOne]

To be fair, you both go to ludicrous lengths expressing beyond all doubt that neither of you are "fighting on the side of Karma". You know, just your treaty obligations.

Hence why they are fighting on the same side.

[Melon Lube]

You know, this is all pretty cut and dry. ML is completely covered on their defensive slots. Polar attacking them would be completely symbolic at this point as they would have no one to attack. DOOM is a different case though, surprisingly for a protectorate they have quite a few high NS nations. As was said most of our high NS nations are in nuclear anarchy thanks to our new friends in ML so they are unable to help our friends over at NSO. Nonetheless STA will declare in aid of our close friends and do what we can. Our other friends in NpO asked if we would need help in such and despite the nation numbers we actually did need some help to cover the attack slots on DOOM's higher nations.

That is what Polar did, they came to the aid of their closest friends when it was needed and ONLY when it was needed. If they were bandwagoning they would have declared on ML.

I have to say I have grown to respect ML quite a bit and I am willing to transfer that respect to DOOM as ML seems to think they are good people. So far though that respect is being widdled away by the atrocity I see of them and some ML folks calling our great friends at Polar cowards.

Are you kidding me???

If you wish to know the depths of NpO honor you could still be given a war that they were given and terms they were given. Wish to relive history? I doubt you do so please take a good hard look at what is really going on with this. We all respect what you guys are doing as it is mirrorlike of what NpO and STA had to go through in the last war but enough with the empty insults.

We aren't affiliated with the Hegemony. The only reason we are here is to honor our treaty with TPF, period.