D34th Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Double-standards?Here? Excuse me, I'm going to go die of shock. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 MHA played no part in the Woodstock Massacre. It was not supported by the masses, and was universally derided to the best of my knowledge. What the govt decided and said in private to allies? That may or may not be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I have discussed this issue personally with the Emperor of the New Pacific Order and have been assured that provided I do not provide any support for those nations on the ZI list that I accept that I have no worries of retribution for allowing them to take part in our community. Let me understand, then, you expect someone not to be protected by the alliance he joins? I will also remind you to take any statement to be issued by this emperor with a pinch of salt. But you already know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 What the govt decided and said in private to allies? That may or may not be a different story. Well that's the only story that counts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyman Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) Let me understand, then, you expect someone not to be protected by the alliance he joins? I will also remind you to take any statement to be issued by this emperor with a pinch of salt. But you already know that. You sound like a reporter. Specific situations do not call for a blanket statement. As a long time veteran of these CyberNations, you should be one of the players I expect would have possessed that bit of wisdom. Edited March 7, 2009 by Heyman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Let me understand, then, you expect someone not to be protected by the alliance he joins? I will also remind you to take any statement to be issued by this emperor with a pinch of salt. But you already know that. Do you really think Moo would attack Ivan, or have Ivan attacked and risk having an uprising/civil war amongst the Orders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Do you really think Moo would attack Ivan, or have Ivan attacked and risk having an uprising/civil war amongst the Orders? One might consider what Moo has already been through an uprising and civil war. In Ivan's ill-fated attempt to wrest control from Moo, and in the recent conflict which caused the cancellation of the Ordinance of the Orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 As we saw in the last war between the NPO and the NpO, a conflict may successfully be framed so that one of the parties can deny direct involvement. The NPO need not fight this alliance itself, it has many allies that can do that for them. You sound like a reporter. Specific situations do not call for a blanket statement. As a long time veteran of these CyberNations, you should be one of the players I expect would have possessed that bit of wisdom. His statement says nothing and I dislike it when someone does not talk straight. It basically sounds like "you can join as long as you can accept we won't support you", which undermines one of the most basic tenets of alliance politics. You're either in or you're out. If he is willing to risk a little more, then he will have my praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Do you really think Moo would attack Ivan, or have Ivan attacked and risk having an uprising/civil war amongst the Orders? abso-!@#$@#$-lutely Like worse things haven't happened eh? c'mon now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyman Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 His statement says nothing and I dislike it when someone does not talk straight. It basically sounds like "you can join as long as you can accept we won't support you", which undermines one of the most basic tenets of alliance politics. You're either in or you're out. If he is willing to risk a little more, then he will have my praise. Thanks for spelling it out. In response: Did you read the caption for this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackyseto123 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I only ponder upon the thoughts of if this is the cometh of a new age or the cometh of the end of another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 To clarify, the situation mentioned earlier regarding the GPA and a potential double standard, that is false. What you are describing is substantially different than what I have stated. The GPA held a position that allowed for aid to said nations. The NSO does not. Simply because some do not understand the difference does not a double standard make. What I have proposed simply hasn't been tried before. It isn't that someone else did it and was attacked because that is not true. Others have stupidly attempted to circumvent ZI status and include people secretly in the "hope" that some wouldn't notice. That isn't happening here. I have been very clear. Any nation on a ZI list must clear his ZI status prior to receiving any aid, militarily or economically, from the NSO. Any nation on a ZI list must clear his ZI status prior to being considered for any leadership role in the NSO. Being allowed to carry New Sith Order in your AA ingame for a nation in ZI does nothing for our statistics I can assure you. It is simply an opportunity to offer some nations incentive to seek proper and respectful resolution to issues that are more often than not their fault entirely. It is an opportunity for them to accept responsibility for their own actions so that they can receive a just reward, which is inclusion into something greater than themselves. I am not concerned with the conflicts of the past. I am not concerned with those that continue to troll and flame, here in public and privately, pushing for conflict between myself and the New Pacific Order. I have a great many friends in the NPO and I am not standing here in opposition to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Yes, I did. If "different" means that outcasts remain outcasts with forum access, then it sucks. Does that answer your question? OOC: out for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Yes, I did. If "different" means that outcasts remain outcasts with forum access, then it sucks. Does that answer your question?OOC: out for now I think it's the opposite, Musso. Anyone who has spent enough time in an alliance knows that the management of their own nation is generally at the bottom of their list of priorities. Allowing the rulers to contribute their skill to an alliance while other parties hold their nations in a state of Zero Infrastructure really only affects the very lowest on my list of priorities in this world. I assume the same holds for many of the ZIed nations who have joined the New Sith Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlogYou Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 To clarify, the situation mentioned earlier regarding the GPA and a potential double standard, that is false. What you are describing is substantially different than what I have stated. The GPA held a position that allowed for aid to said nations. The NSO does not.Simply because some do not understand the difference does not a double standard make. What I have proposed simply hasn't been tried before. It isn't that someone else did it and was attacked because that is not true. Others have stupidly attempted to circumvent ZI status and include people secretly in the "hope" that some wouldn't notice. That isn't happening here. I have been very clear. Any nation on a ZI list must clear his ZI status prior to receiving any aid, militarily or economically, from the NSO. Any nation on a ZI list must clear his ZI status prior to being considered for any leadership role in the NSO. Being allowed to carry New Sith Order in your AA ingame for a nation in ZI does nothing for our statistics I can assure you. It is simply an opportunity to offer some nations incentive to seek proper and respectful resolution to issues that are more often than not their fault entirely. It is an opportunity for them to accept responsibility for their own actions so that they can receive a just reward, which is inclusion into something greater than themselves. I am not concerned with the conflicts of the past. I am not concerned with those that continue to troll and flame, here in public and privately, pushing for conflict between myself and the New Pacific Order. I have a great many friends in the NPO and I am not standing here in opposition to them. This is indeed a new and unique twist. It does seem quite interesting to offer the outcast a glimmer of hope, an incentive to change. This is something which could change the game in many interesting ways. I do have one question regarding these "PZI/ZI" members. Would you or your alliance offer diplomatic assistants in helping these players from their ZI status? Oh, and good luck. Although it doesn't seem like you will need much of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Exactly Get ready for fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Erics Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Simple way to see there's clearly a double standard, no need to reference back to GPA, just have some random alliance without the right connections announce that they'll accept folks on NPO's (or some other power alliance) ZI list. Would they get away with it simply by refusing to defend them, aid them and put them in .gov? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Simple way to see there's clearly a double standard, no need to reference back to GPA, just have some random alliance without the right connections announce that they'll accept folks on NPO's (or some other power alliance) ZI list. Would they get away with it simply by refusing to defend them, aid them and put them in .gov? I think, iirc, that it has been explicitly stated in this here thread that this situation would be unlikely if any other figure had started this alliance. Whether this is taking advantage of a reputation or not, I really couldnt say. We're all just chickens scratching around the yard waiting for the Farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Shepard Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Let's try something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Erics Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I think, iirc, that it has been explicitly stated in this here thread that this situation would be unlikely if any other figure had started this alliance. Whether this is taking advantage of a reputation or not, I really couldnt say. We're all just chickens scratching around the yard waiting for the Farmer. Well perhaps it takes Ivan Moldavi to break some of the idiotic customs that pass for common law. The reason why generally alliances get hit for harboring ZI/PZI/EZI nations even if they provide no actual support (aid or defense) and put them in no position of power is because the true intent if ZI is not to damage the nation but to isolate the ruler (OOC: The player) by preventing him to join a community (OOC: Not withstanding opposition groups like Vox, FAN, etc. But not everyone wants to play the game that way.) Most of us probably consider the inability to join a community a far harsher punishment than the loss of infra and tech. If this practice became common then suddenly the powers that be lose one of their better tools, the threat and ability to take away your ability to enjoy probably the only thing that is enjoyable about Planet Bob: Being part of a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the damned Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Everyone has been dancing around it so i will just come straight out and say it. Ivan created the way this game is being played so he is now attempting to alter the rules using his esteem and charisma. There is no way any new alliance would be able to call itself an order and allow people with so much baggage into their alliance without being rolled in an instant. The reason why Ivan is allowed to do this is because he has power. Its not the type of power we usually associate with but the kind that will bring nations to him with his personality. Where sponge thought he could assert himself without being stomped Ivan can and will. It is not if he is loved or hated by Bob its that everyone here respects him. His power is what sustains him and the NSO. Power is the only rule of Cybernations and until he loses his he will be able to act unmolested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 The CB of Woodstock Massacre was just an excuse to attack and remove GPA of #1 spot. Simple like that. The GPA was not occupying the number 1 spot in the cyberverse when attacked for their transgressions. The New Pacific Order was. Simple like that. Sorry for the off topicness, I hate historical revisionism. Regardless, siths, yoda, lords, death stars, fun fun. Also that ginger guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruHartBrakN Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 The GPA was not occupying the number 1 spot in the cyberverse when attacked for their transgressions. The New Pacific Order was. Simple like that. Sorry for the off topicness, I hate historical revisionism. Regardless, siths, yoda, lords, death stars, fun fun. Also that ginger guy That's because the drums of war scared a lot of their infra-happy nations away before the actual attack... probably a strategic move by the NPO/allies to hurt GPA before the first declaration. Either way, the GPA was ahead of NPO for a stint there and it wasn't until the public ultimatum that this changed. Who's the revisionist now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) That's because the drums of war scared a lot of their infra-happy nations away before the actual attack... probably a strategic move by the NPO/allies to hurt GPA before the first declaration. OOC: Actually, I believe more then anything the change in the way game calculated the strength formula had its roll. As anyone in that time would know, the formula change made NPO much closer to GPA and from that point on NPO had larger growth rates to the point where it overtook statistically the GPA. Either way, the GPA was ahead of NPO for a stint there and it wasn't until the public ultimatum that this changed. Who's the revisionist now? When NPO passed GPA, there were no ultimatums put forth. Talk of war was going on, but that was going on for a while. GPA had no big change in membership in that period. This history change of yours is hilarious at best. About revisionism, look at the mirror. That is all I have to say about that, here. Change history however you see fit, does not concern me. I put forth some facts, all I wanted. Edited March 8, 2009 by Branimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruHartBrakN Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I put forth some facts, all I wanted. Forgive the derail here but many top tier GPA members left before they were crushed in that war.. As far as no ultimatum, you should consider checking the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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