TSO announcement

[Bodvar Jarl]

See? I told you it would be solved on the backroom

[KingEd]

Perhaps in public. I'm certain if Gramlins governent asks our mdp partner (you guys) that you could give a bit of how it played out. If not then MCXA may want to review it's foreign policy and how it treats it's allies.

Feel free to shoot me a query on IRC, we can talk about how things happened. <3 gramlims

[hertugen]

This was your plan? Let me guess what happened next; someone leaked your plan to MCXA which caused you to rush things (for some reason) and spend all your money on hookers and blow?

By the way was there a deadline for this payment?

Hizzy, you are one of my favorite posters, and you always make me lol.

As for Martenses, I would also much rather have 28 of him than one TSO any day.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

i believe he was referring to the secret arrangement TOP made with exMCXA current TSO protection that seemed to need reps paid to make the deal kosher.

but what do i know, just a guess. B)

What? Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Rephrase?

[Neuromancer7]

ermm...i thught u quit resigned from TSO....or were u expelled ??

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=50059

I must have missed the disbandment notice

In the interests of not clogging up the forums with my own self importance... I tacked a notice of disbandment onto the end of my DoE.

And I voluntarily left the TSO, created Just Me, changed it to Just Us (in case other's wanted to do my own thing), disbanded it when nobody including Me did, and then voluntarily asked to rejoin TSO. My motivations for said actions are complicated, and not really relevant to this topic. It made sense at the time... I swear.

...and no. I hadn't been drinking.

Edit: Notice in my Sig where it says Madness is My Anti-Drug? I'm not kidding, or at least not completely. Mental Disorders! Fun for the whole family.

Also... since I missed it in my previous post... to all the awesome people in MCXA. Heck To all the awesome people in general.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Neuromancer7

[A Soviet Attack]

1.7 B?

That's a lot of clams. Good job, TSO.

[elpadrino]

The only thing that is bitter that I haven't read this in the Tattler or anywhere else like 2 days ago.

You never cease to disappoint me

Further, we don't see the money as "punishment", we planned to send them aid anyway. We will not forget our roots, and are more than happy to support them.

o/ MCXA

So that was the plan all the time(send aid) and you hide it to us?

this new trick to the MCXA will cost you 1.7B more

P.D: is there anymore that you want to tell us?

[elpadrino]

not related: what do you do to have the alliance picture between "Member no" and "Nation Name"?

edit: haha great, thankx

Edited March 4, 2009 by elpadrino

[Gobb]

My controls -> Edit profile information -> above the Alliance Name is what you seek, my young old apprentice

[Blue Lightning]

If you are refusing to accept opinions from those less informed and then refuse to inform them, how can you expect to get any feedback?

What makes you think any of the involved parties want feedback from you or any other un-involved party?

The point of this thread was not to say "Hey everyone, we think we've reached a compromise but we'd like your thoughts on the subject before anything is finalised". It was simply to inform people that the situation, which should ideally have remained private in the first place, has been resolved. No commentary needed.

You are welcome to ask questions if you have them, but if you would like them answered I suggest you drop the line of thinking that has you believing we somehow owe you an explanation. Any questions answered will be on the terms of the involved parties.

How exactly did this go down?

TSO offer this as a 'gift'?

Was it demanded by MCXA?

Did TOP offer the idea so both parties would be satisfied?

Because if it was satisfaction you were looking for...Ej + Lepoard thong is all you needed. -.-'

In all seriousness, the answer to this question will reflect my opinion on the situation.

I feel mistakes were made all round. After the DoE, everyone was left a bit red faced and angry for a variety of reasons. Considering the whole issue seemed to stem from mis-communication, it was in everyone's best interests to clear up the communication issue and so a series of meetings were held between the leaderships of TOP, TSO and the MCXA where everyone poured out their thoughts and a compromise was finally reached that could be agreed on by all involved. The summary of this compromise can be seen in the OP. Who's idea the final compromise was in the first place is surely irrelevant considering all parties agree that it is the best solution to the problem.

It is my hope that everyone has learned their respective lessons and that this agreement settles the animosity for good.

[Juan Valdez]

Further, we don't see the money as "punishment", we planned to send them aid anyway.

Of course you did!

[Lord Boris]

Further, we don't see the money as "punishment", we planned to send them aid anyway.

Thank you for the morning chuckle.

[bkphysics]

What? Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Rephrase?

I was referring to the fact that TOP was the protectorate of TSO. If indeed MCXA had the cojones to roll TSO, who would of been right in the line of fire?

As well, as a protector it is often the duty of such to guide and provide consul should the need arise. Clearly TSO had their heads far up their keisters with how this went down and that tutelage seems to have been either lost or neglected to be taken by the TSO leadership.

Either way, MCXA 'forgiving' TSO for their disrespect saves them from being a smoking crater and saves TOP from having a war at their doorstep. Hence, both of you should be thanking MCXA for giving in to being paid off. Unless of course you think MCXA was a non-threat if it came to war?

[bkphysics]

What makes you think any of the involved parties want feedback from you or any other un-involved party?

Bringing this up in a public area pretty much entitles everyone to give an opinion on the subject whether you like it or not. Hence the horrendous phrase, 'private channels for the win'.

If you wanted to communicate the outcome, you could of simply gone to the alliance embassy's you wish to let know about this and handled it more privately.

Just saying.

[In Spades]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd definitely take that sum over a war.

QFT

I'd take any sum over war. Honestly, MCXA is in an extremely ambiguous situation, but chose to send money to their smaller nations than go into a justified war. If that's the path they chose for such a reason, than albeit for me to say otherwise. Therefore, I am glad to see TSO's admission of wrongdoing and both alliances moving on with their lives.

[Blue Lightning]

Bringing this up in a public area pretty much entitles everyone to give an opinion on the subject whether you like it or not. Hence the horrendous phrase, 'private channels for the win'.

If you wanted to communicate the outcome, you could of simply gone to the alliance embassy's you wish to let know about this and handled it more privately.

Just saying.

I have no problem with people posting whatever they like here (within the rules), but that doesn't mean I encourage them to. The post I was responding to stated that the announcement was made for the purpose of getting feedback. I was simply refuting that implication. The announcement was made in an effort to inform people, not to seek information.

I know I don't have the ability to stop people from commentating (I don't think I'd want to anyway), but that doesn't mean said commentary is useful or of any value to me at all.

[Bob Janova]

TSO can be very thankful that TOP is on their side. This announcement is a clear admission that they did something wrong and it is TOP's support that means it is paid in cash and not blood.

I am pleased to see this for a number of reasons. Accepting failure, or a mistake, is the first step to ensuring you make less of them in the future. TOP and MCXA are both allies of mine and to see them fighting over a protectorate would have been most unwelcome, and with this aid drop the issue is presumably solved. And finally the money will be most welcome in growing some larger nations in the new MCXA.

[bkphysics]

Understood. I didn't really refer to the comment in question in my response to your post, so it would seem I overlooked the implication that was made which you were responding to.

My bad on that.

[JBone]

Sounds like a familiar thing with these big sanctioned alliances.. a little too big of a dent to your ego when a few people get tired and want to do their own thing, MCXA?

Good luck, TSO.

Or sometimes these big sanctioned alliances just set ego aside and wish former members well in doing their own thing.

it sets an interesting precedent, which may be used for ill in the future, I dont see why anyone would find that to be a good thing.

I wonder if this new precedent can be used retroactively? CTB, T, GantanX, TM, Luckybob....I'm clearing aid slots as we speak...

.....o yea, that astronaut fellow too.

[Blue Lightning]

I was referring to the fact that TOP was the protectorate of TSO. If indeed MCXA had the cojones to roll TSO, who would of been right in the line of fire?

As well, as a protector it is often the duty of such to guide and provide consul should the need arise. Clearly TSO had their heads far up their keisters with how this went down and that tutelage seems to have been either lost or neglected to be taken by the TSO leadership.

Either way, MCXA 'forgiving' TSO for their disrespect saves them from being a smoking crater and saves TOP from having a war at their doorstep. Hence, both of you should be thanking MCXA for giving in to being paid off. Unless of course you think MCXA was a non-threat if it came to war?

You seem to be forgetting that TOP shares 2 separate MDoAP treaties with the MCXA. Not only would MCXA attacking the TSO be illegal according to our treaties (Mobius Accords section III, article G), it would also likely require an incredible breakdown in relations between us for it to come to blows. And while I expect that in the confines of your tinfoil hat this situation amounted to such, the reality is clearly quite different.

Maybe if you were in this situation, you would have driven towards a war with your direct ally (or it's protectorate) rather than attempting a diplomatic solution but if that were the case, I'm glad I'm not your ally.

Anyway, long story short: yes, I am thankful that the MCXA are not war-warmongering $@!holes and decided to be diplomatic with us, their allies, rather than attack us or our protectorate.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Blue Lightning

[bkphysics]

I knew full well about your treaties and the redundancy that is in them. A true ally wouldn't have condoned such nefarious actions even if they were duped into thinking everything was on the up and up. Once the reality was exposed, I would expect my allies to stand fast at my side and chastise those who conducted such deceitful actions rather than work diligently towards protecting them and securing their future.

In this regards, TOP should be thankful that the MCXA apparently is willing to so easily overlook such a poor choice on their part. To an outsider, it would seem the true strength of their ally's support lies with the members who left and not the MCXA itself.

No tin foil hats are required for that. This is exactly how this whole mess looks to an outsider, and frankly the only alliance who gained respect out of this to me is MCXA.

Which of course I already know means little to nothing to you.

[Deuterium Dawn]

There goes all the respect I had for the "new MCXA". Good luck to both parties and well to done to TOP I guess.

[jerdge]

Congratulations to everybody involved for having showed that civilty and peace work.

Special shout out to TOP for their arbitration skills and professional calmness

TOP

[Bodvar Jarl]

I knew full well about your treaties and the redundancy that is in them. A true ally wouldn't have condoned such nefarious actions even if they were duped into thinking everything was on the up and up. Once the reality was exposed, I would expect my allies to stand fast at my side and chastise those who conducted such deceitful actions rather than work diligently towards protecting them and securing their future.

Who said anything about condoning? We worked out a solution that was best for everyone, that's what true allies do.

Everyone would loose on continued strife.

[Blue Lightning]

I knew full well about your treaties and the redundancy that is in them. A true ally wouldn't have condoned such nefarious actions even if they were duped into thinking everything was on the up and up. Once the reality was exposed, I would expect my allies to stand fast at my side and chastise those who conducted such deceitful actions rather than work diligently towards protecting them and securing their future.

In this regards, TOP should be thankful that the MCXA apparently is willing to so easily overlook such a poor choice on their part. To an outsider, it would seem the true strength of their ally's support lies with the members who left and not the MCXA itself.

No tin foil hats are required for that. This is exactly how this whole mess looks to an outsider, and frankly the only alliance who gained respect out of this to me is MCXA.

Which of course I already know means little to nothing to you.

Aside from our treaties with the MCXA we also have a treaty with the TSO. We made a pledge to protect them. We didn't deem their actions sufficiently "nefarious" or "deceitful" to warrant dropping that protection. Instead, we decided to see if there was a way forward which would allow us to uphold our obligations to both alliances. And I feel we have been successful in that regard.