TSO announcement

[logan1]

If you are among the recent lot that left MXCA after TSO incident then you are not much different..in fact worse..at least TSO is paying the reps and at the end of the day, united and are standing together while the others who left just ran straight into the hiding of other alliances and are too scared to come out and take a chance..TSO took a chance..makes them more daring than the lot who just ran away here and there.

However if you are not the one who left related to TSO incident, ignore the above lines..and I agree with your assessment that TSO's rasher actions would have meant certain destruction of them.

i was a member of the group with the intel ahead of time that was branded a traitor for telling the GA what we had found out about TSO (at the time we thought it was called project91). 1st i resigned when i heard then intel then i tried to warn the GA. i felt staying in the MCXA while warning the GA with the current govt whose secret i just exposed to some MCXA members wasnt that smart.

right after the TSO was former (literaly) the same day i rejoined my old mates. after hanging out for a lil bit i realized my home had been stripped of what i enjoyed most about it... activity.

so i left for a more active alliance and didnt not try to take a single friend with me.

i plan to keep close ties with my friends in the MCXA including being a forign diplomat currently to them.

i hate the fact that it seemed the fun was sucked out of the alliance and that i had to move on but i surely hope you are not putting me in the same category as the members who up and left with all but 2 govt members and a good 80-90% of our active members.

[shahenshah]

oh, sorry for my lack of informationand outburst

[logan1]

As a soldier within the MCXA I'd like to say a few things - (the following are my own views):

Sal Paradice - you sir are quite hilarious. :lol:

Jipps - the whole point of considering war, is that you are deciding whether to start one or not. You aren't actually starting one.

You can consider the war, then opt out of it. Considering means it could go either way. Rest assured the reparations had no effect as to whether we went to war with TSO or not. The reparations may have prevented a Cold War between MCXA and TSO, but it wasn't going to get hot. Why not one may ask? Well MCXA has this little thing, (and why I joined MCXA) is that we actually think of our alliance's future, before we fight, unless honor is at stake. You cannot be dishonorable for not wiping out an alliance smaller then yours (6-7 times smaller actually) simply because they insulted you. Now if they insulted and then went to war with your allies, that's a different story.

Sam - please don't tell me the only reason you are paying the reparations is the kindness of your heart. TSO's status within a certain big block of nations was hurt, especially after the disastrous DoE, and this thread serves as a first step to begin healing the sitatuion. While on topic, are we getting more reps due to DoE? As Maxflies said, we'll spend them more prudently then that one mythical nation on Earth.

It's not money for a right to exist, it's...ok think of it this way: if you flick off a police officer, and he pulls you over and writes you a ticket, instead of sending you to jail, would you pay the ticket? Is the officer dishonorable for writing you a ticket instead of putting you in jail, when your flicking off took place in the spur of the moment, when you were pissed off for unrelated reasons - should you go to jail for an emotion that didn't kill anyone, whose display you severely regret?

I think it shows that MCXA has quite a bit of honor, being able to brush this incident off, without going all out like Bush did. I'm more proud of my alliance now, then I ever was before. MCXA dealt with this situation honorably, as did TOP, as did TSO - unfortunately not from the begining, but they cooled down after realizing the errors of their ways. Yes TSO still has negative honor points to clean up, but I think they can do so, it may take quite a while though, maybe even a year.

That being said, TSO we expect more bailout cash B) Only difference here is that you are bailing yourselves out of your diplomatic fiasco. For further elucidation, see the 72 page fiasco, aka TSO DoE, and if you read between the lines, the CB is in that thread.

Edit: what could have been the CB is in that thread. Sorry I just get annoyed with people going "tell me, tell me now!" Looking at you Jipps.

Edit2: Regarding the Logan post, I have known Logan for quite a while, and to say that Logan lost honor in this affair, is to !@#$%^&* without knowing any of the facts. (Few know all the facts, but everyone knows some facts, or should know some of them.) Asking Logan first on IRC about it would be prudent.

wow,

thanks, Ilya Murometz, not only for backing me up but for such an accurate post showing the GA side of the great MCXA.

you and people just like you is what made leaving the MCXA so hard and feel wrong when i did make the move.

for the 1st time in my CN life span i found an alliance that is as close to the pre-split MCXA that ive ever seen.

i thank Sparta for allowing me to join their awesome family and the warm welcome

and

i thank MCXA for the awesome friendships i still hold on to.

if the MCXA EVER fell on the wrong side of a 3v1 or greater i would do everything in my lowly power to have my new family at Sparta back my family at the MCXA.

OOC anyway, i dont want to get a warn for going off topic but i hope addressing the 2 comments is with in the rules and i would be happy to answer anyones questions on how i fit into this on IRC. /OOC

NC you hit the nail on the head with the TSO sympathizers.

Edited March 6, 2009 by logan1

[logan1]

oh, sorry for my lack of informationand outburst

no problem my friend, i hope i didnt sound harsh, i truelt hoped that i wasnt being seen as a traitor in anyones eyes except the TSO in which i would have loved to be seen as a traitor for blowing the whistle.

ps

thanks NC and Doug you both know how i feel about you guys o/

[Jipps]

6. You are not one to comment on my alliance's honor and dignity Jipps.

7. The above post shows why you generally are left in the dark.

Ouch, why the hostility? Hopefully I wont have to pay MCXA to 'smooth the tensions.'

As for Heft, a good post with valid points. However TSO and MCXA have made this clear that it was a gift and not a form of punishment, unless they have changed their mind?

Edited March 7, 2009 by Jipps

[Ilya Murometz]

Forgive me, but outside of us just being kind, how are we responsible for fixing YOUR forums? We didn't break them or take them down.

Judging from what I know diplomatically, and I mean this in no offensive way, so if it comes up as offensive, forgive me - you guys need all the Diplomatic Points you can get, and this is a way of getting diplomatic points. It's not you duty, but it may win you some badly needed points.

oh, sorry for my lack of informationand outburst

That's cool. At least you apologized, that takes guts, I know from personal experience Shahenshah +1. Just for future info, the people who run from the alliance don't have posts defending the alliance in a non-whiny way, as Logan did.

wow,

thanks, Ilya Murometz

Always a pleasure Logan I'm sure our paths shall cross on IRC.

Ouch, why the hostility? Hopefully I want have to pay MCXA to 'smooth the tensions.'

As for Heft, a good post with valid points. However TSO and MCXA have made this clear that it was a gift and not a form of punishment, unless they have changed their mind?

The hostility is explained by people constantly hinting to you that IRC = FTW, that most of the possible CB is already in the forums, you just have to read between the lines, that no one has to provide information to anyone on the public forums, (with a few exceptions, this not being one of them). You trying to make an argument that unless my alliance gives you X info, they have lost honor, is kind of provacative, no? But since you 'want' have to pay MCXA, you can start out by making a DoE that insults MCXA. Have you read TSO DoE at all?

Some view it as gift, others as reps. The main point is that there won't be a war between MCXA and TSO and the relations are slowly improving, ergo the declaration/announcement.

[hizzy]

Judging from what I know diplomatically, and I mean this in no offensive way, so if it comes up as offensive, forgive me - you guys need all the Diplomatic Points you can get, and this is a way of getting diplomatic points. It's not you duty, but it may win you some badly needed points.

I think that's kinda stretching it a bit... sure, having someone go around saying "hey we could break your forums" and then having your forums break makes them look like a jackass, but unless you know for certain that they did do it, I don't think anybody could really expect them to help you out in that department.

I'm not even a fan and I wouldn't expect them to, so I can't imagine many others who would. Then again, maybe I don't expect them to because of how I feel about them? It's kind of a chicken-or-egg deal. Does my opinion of them determine how I predict their future actions, or does my prediction of their actions determine my opinion? I suppose it would be hard for me to make that distinction since my opinion on the matter is inherently biased, but suffice it to say, this keeps me up at night.

Edited March 7, 2009 by hizzy

[Jipps]

The hostility is explained by people constantly hinting to you that IRC = FTW, that most of the possible CB is already in the forums, you just have to read between the lines, that no one has to provide information to anyone on the public forums, (with a few exceptions, this not being one of them). You trying to make an argument that unless my alliance gives you X info, they have lost honor, is kind of provacative, no? But since you 'want' have to pay MCXA, you can start out by making a DoE that insults MCXA. Have you read TSO DoE at all?

You obviously haven't read my posts or are just so confused you muttled two completely seperate arguemnts as one. I never once said that not giving information makes an alliance less honorable, that's just plain misinformation. I'm tired of repeating myself to you and getting nothing but low bows and misinformed replies. Thus, I'll make my exit from this thread.

[nc1701]

I think that's kinda stretching it a bit... sure, having someone go around saying "hey we could break your forums" and then having your forums break makes them look like a jackass, but unless you know for certain that they did do it, I don't think anybody could really expect them to help you out in that department.

I'm not even a fan and I wouldn't expect them to, so I can't imagine many others who would. Then again, maybe I don't expect them to because of how I feel about them? It's kind of a chicken-or-egg deal. Does my opinion of them determine how I predict their future actions, or does my prediction of their actions determine my opinion? I suppose it would be hard for me to make that distinction since my opinion on the matter is inherently biased, but suffice it to say, this keeps me up at night.

Just to be 100% clear on something.

These reparations are not in any way related to our recent forum troubles, should we ever track down who's responsible for that we will not be asking them for reps.

These reparations are for a series of crimes committed against MCXA by multiple TSO nations ranging from publicly known crimes like recruiting, to others which are not widely known but I'm sure will be brought to light in good time.

[hizzy]

Just to be 100% clear on something.

These reparations are not in any way related to our recent forum troubles, should we ever track down who's responsible for that we will not be asking them for reps.

These reparations are for a series of crimes committed against MCXA by multiple TSO nations ranging from publicly known crimes like recruiting, to others which are not widely known but I'm sure will be brought to light in good time.

I wasn't implying that the reps were for the forums.

I look forward to good times.

[Baden-Württemberg]

OOC: The Forums are legally owned by Ololiqui since he paid for them. If we wanted to take them down we could have done that legally, I assume that was mentioned before. We have heard the "OMG TSO HACKED MCXA" rumors before, and we'd like the offending party to either come up with evidence or stay quiet in this matter.

We have offered the MCXA help multiple times, and we are glad that they have their Forums back again.

IC: I have received "OMG WHY AREN'T YOU SENDING THE AID" PM's. We are not sending the aid, because MCXA wants us to start on the 15th. If they want to start now, we can send it now, they just need to leave me a message.

[King Neptune]

OOC: The Forums are legally owned by Ololiqui since he paid for them. If we wanted to take them down we could have done that legally, I assume that was mentioned before. We have heard the "OMG TSO HACKED MCXA" rumors before, and we'd like the offending party to either come up with evidence or stay quiet in this matter.

We have offered the MCXA help multiple times, and we are glad that they have their Forums back again.

IC: I have received "OMG WHY AREN'T YOU SENDING THE AID" PM's. We are not sending the aid, because MCXA wants us to start on the 15th. If they want to start now, we can send it now, they just need to leave me a message.

In short, pay attention, know your facts, or stay out. I think this topic has been stretched too far and it's really time to let it die.

Good luck MCXA in recovering and transition.

Good luck TSO in all future endeavors.

o/ Blue for it is great.

[shahenshah]

Certain Q alliances have their forums being hit lately.

(OOC: DDoS attacks being done by some and such crimes being endorsed by the same old vocal 'ebil hegemony' lot)

[Ilya Murometz]

Ok, my post was misunderstood. I don't think TSO hacked MCXA forums. I do however believe that IRC = FTW, and I go on IRC and talk to Q members. TSO's reputation in Q is not stellar, to say the least, and this has nothing to do with the "forum maintenance". Thus, by helping us with our forums, TSO might score a few badly needed points in Q. That was my entire point.

Edit: TSO's giving us money to get their diplomatic situation up a bit, might as well apply to the forums. That was just my crazy logic.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Ilya Murometz

[maxfiles]

OOC: The Forums are legally owned by Ololiqui since he paid for them. If we wanted to take them down we could have done that legally, I assume that was mentioned before. We have heard the "OMG TSO HACKED MCXA" rumors before, and we'd like the offending party to either come up with evidence or stay quiet in this matter.

We have offered the MCXA help multiple times, and we are glad that they have their Forums back again.

IC: I have received "OMG WHY AREN'T YOU SENDING THE AID" PM's. We are not sending the aid, because MCXA wants us to start on the 15th. If they want to start now, we can send it now, they just need to leave me a message.

The aid has to be organized by the MoF, its not exactly easy organizing these things without a forum. and now that we got it back we need to get that department organized.

ooc response: There are free softwares that work just as good as ipb. and if you guys at tso had hacked the forum, I'm sure this thread would be replaced by DoW's anyways... and a few game bannings.. so lets just let it go

Edited March 7, 2009 by maxfiles