This Week in Pacificontinuum

[Electron Sponge]

I have a question out of pure curiosity. If the Continuum ends and Moo is deposed and all that is bandied about these days ever comes to pass, then what do you foresee the future/aftermath to be?

I'm thinking another rises to fill the void. I'm thinking whatever comes after will be just as bad or worse as what people complain about now. I'm thinking it will be about revenge, just as it has always has been.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy revenge and war as much as the next person does, or I at lease hope does. It is, after all what makes Planet Bob go 'round. If the CoaLUEtion had won the first war, it would have resulted in revenge against the oppressors. The subsequent wars, since this did not occur, were about revenge against those that took part in the first. The rise of power blocs were designed to ensure noone who survived ever had to face humiliation again.... then the blocs ate themselves from the inside as people turned on each other and began taking their revenge on each other.

Now we have Vox and NPO, two factions of the same beast still saying no U over who was the better leader, wanting revenge.

Its all the same freaking day on Planet Bob. The difference lies in whether we have real war or not. Everything else is the devil in the details.

Please explain why I am wrong. I'm quite serious.

Nice to meet you quite serious, I am the Reverend Doctor Electron Sponge. (sorry I couldn't resist)

I think the aftermath will be chaotic in the short term as alliances and individuals scurry around trying to put together some sort of credible defense against whatever threat they may perceive. I do not believe that we are doomed to dwell in a neverending cycle of one gigantic bloc replacing another one, because we've only seen that happen once. It is my hope that if new blocs do form it will be along lines of common interest instead of as one gigantic lynch mob armed with a vast array of weapons of mass destruction.

This all depends on the character of the leaders involved however. As long as we have people willingly signing up to be a member nation in an alliance who could only be described as a thrall of the global hegemony we are going to see a repeat of this collection of hegemons and mendicants we call Continuum. As long as something like that exists I will oppose it. I certainly have no intent on forming a bloc with the same modus operandi or ideological bend should Vox Populi one day be free.

I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, Yavanna. I will tell you that there isn't enough empirical data to draw a hypothesis from your single example of a continuation of the global hegemony through Initiative being formed and then being replaced by Continuum, and that my own personal goals involve making sure that that never happens again. How successful I'll be remains to be seen, but the intent is there. That's more than most people can say.

[Oktavia]

Nice to meet you quite serious, I am the Reverend Doctor Electron Sponge. (sorry I couldn't resist)

I think the aftermath will be chaotic in the short term as alliances and individuals scurry around trying to put together some sort of credible defense against whatever threat they may perceive. I do not believe that we are doomed to dwell in a neverending cycle of one gigantic bloc replacing another one, because we've only seen that happen once. It is my hope that if new blocs do form it will be along lines of common interest instead of as one gigantic lynch mob armed with a vast array of weapons of mass destruction.

This all depends on the character of the leaders involved however. As long as we have people willingly signing up to be a member nation in an alliance who could only be described as a thrall of the global hegemony we are going to see a repeat of this collection of hegemons and mendicants we call Continuum. As long as something like that exists I will oppose it. I certainly have no intent on forming a bloc with the same modus operandi or ideological bend should Vox Populi one day be free.

I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, Yavanna. I will tell you that there isn't enough empirical data to draw a hypothesis from your single example of a continuation of the global hegemony through Initiative being formed and then being replaced by Continuum, and that my own personal goals involve making sure that that never happens again. How successful I'll be remains to be seen, but the intent is there. That's more than most people can say.

Good read, but we all know the commies will be taking over if the orders collapse.

[willirica]

Perhaps they should change forum permissions and use disinformation to weed out the possible leaks.

you would think/hope they have or are doing so already, although no TWiP would make me sad

Edited March 3, 2009 by willirica

[WarriorConcept]

Frozenrpg: Who cares? You're stating the obvious aims of every state in a so-called realist international system: survival and security. Good for you. You've read a book or two.

Nice to know people can depend on your alliance if it's in a bad situation

[WarriorConcept]

you would think/hope they have or are doing so already, although no TWiP would make me sad

That'd be pretty darn rude to some allies, I must say. Not to mention it'd be a real bad way to go about your day when you're thinking that your ally has just fed you some disinformation while believing it's true. Just seems a little difficult to do when you're supposed to trust each other is all I'm saying.

[Bob Janova]

You are assuming your "spy" isn't compromised, isn't a double agent, and hasn't already been caught and Schattenman is using old material spread over time.

If a top 3 member of a Continuum alliance had been kicked and ZI'd for spying, we would all hear about it.

E: And yes, they could use all the standard counter-intel techniques to try to find him, and probably are to some extent. But when this person is in the top echelons of all your bloc communication channels, and has that information available on his home boards as well, to do so fully would completely cripple the entire operation of every Continuum alliance. Counter-intel is usually coordinated from above, but when there is no 'above' it is much harder.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Bob Janova

[willirica]

That'd be pretty darn rude to some allies, I must say. Not to mention it'd be a real bad way to go about your day when you're thinking that your ally has just fed you some disinformation while believing it's true. Just seems a little difficult to do when you're supposed to trust each other is all I'm saying.

doesnt have to be lies, just slightly different information. It only has to be varied ever so slightly, just enough to tell which is which

Edited March 3, 2009 by willirica

[savethecheerleader]

That'd be pretty darn rude to some allies, I must say. Not to mention it'd be a real bad way to go about your day when you're thinking that your ally has just fed you some disinformation while believing it's true. Just seems a little difficult to do when you're supposed to trust each other is all I'm saying.

Indeed. Anyone who was involved with the RIA or MDC during GWIII knows what spreading disinformation to weed out spies can do. Granted these alliances weren't allies, but the outcome could still be quite similar.

Edited March 3, 2009 by savethecheerleader

[WarriorConcept]

doesnt have to be lies, just slightly different information. It only has to be varied ever so slightly, just enough to tell which is which

And who controls that in a bloc where everyone is equal?

[Nintenderek]

You can hardly blame the member alliances of Q in trying to run damage control it is just that they are not doing an effective job of it.

No one is buying the "you can't get recent info line" they just provided screenshots about IRON's plans with jarheads that are less than a week old. and no one is stupid enough to believe you guys do something interesting every week so of course they have to go back and go through older drama.

The goals of TWiP are obvious first they are to show that they are in your bloc at the highest levels of government and second to show the outsiders what goes on inside your forums in an entertaining way. So far they are succeeding at both and no amount of spin is going to change that.

I'm not so sure about that last one this week. I feel this issue had better information, but was no presented as well as last week. I enjoyed it none the less, but the entertainment value this week was seriously missing, but I think next week Schattenmann will do better.

[Azrael Alexander]

I bet i'm going to have to wait ages to be masked on the Q boards now

Thanks a lot Shatt :angry:

[WarriorConcept]

I bet i'm going to have to wait ages to be masked on the Q boards now

Thanks a lot Shatt :angry:

Your sig makes me pretty disappointed in CN

[D34th]

If a top 3 member of a Continuum alliance had been kicked and ZI'd for spying, we would all hear about it.

E: And yes, they could use all the standard counter-intel techniques to try to find him, and probably are to some extent. But when this person is in the top echelons of all your bloc communication channels, and has that information available on his home boards as well, to do so fully would completely cripple the entire operation of every Continuum alliance. Counter-intel is usually coordinated from above, but when there is no 'above' it is much harder.

Who are the Top 3 os each Q alliance do you know? I could be an interesting information.

[willirica]

And who controls that in a bloc where everyone is equal?

whoever wants to expose the leak. It could have been done quite easily with the Jarheads for example (well it would tell you something at a bare minimum, like a specific alliance, or if they have agents in separate alliances).

again this is just a hypothetical scenario to get my point across

You could have told each alliance that your going to attack on a seperate date through seperate officials. Then once it gets leaked out say you were internal dissarray (hence the seperate officials feeding info) and release the real date through a higher official (Trotsky/Dilber maybe?) to reaffirm trust and a return to normalcy in terms of day to day operation.

Although given the anonymos nature of the information released by vox they seem to be ready for this. And im sure each commited member alliance wouldnt mind it so long as it gave them improved opsec in the future (i know i wouldnt).

[Electron Sponge]

Your sig makes me pretty disappointed in CN

That line should be the official Toilet Seat motto.

[WarriorConcept]

whoever wants to expose the leak. It could have been done quite easily with the Jarheads for example (well it would tell you something at a bare minimum, like a specific alliance, or if they have agents in separate alliances).

again this is just a hypothetical scenario to get my point across

You could have told each alliance that your going to attack on a seperate date through seperate officials. Then once it gets leaked out say you were internal dissarray (hence the seperate officials feeding info) and release the real date through a higher official (Trotsky/Dilber maybe?) to reaffirm trust and a return to normalcy in terms of day to day operation.

Although given the anonymos nature of the information released by vox they seem to be ready for this. And im sure each commited member alliance wouldnt mind it so long as it gave them improved opsec in the future (i know i wouldnt).

What if NPO is the leak

[mattski133]

I suspect they already are doing that and that is why old information is old.

Old is such a relative word. Considering some alliances hang on to grudges for years, a month or two is not that "old".

Regardless of how old it is, this post is worthwhile, to me, because as a government official of a (small) alliance, it is nice to know who is and who is not telling me the truth when they talk with me. A conversation I had two months ago on this subject now becomes more important as facts are made clear to me.

I think a lot of people that were told one thing in the past, and were fed another later, would have liked something like this.

-ski

[WarriorConcept]

Old is such a relative word. Considering some alliances hang on to grudges for years, a month or two is not that "old".

Regardless of how old it is, this post is worthwhile, to me, because as a government official of a (small) alliance, it is nice to know who is and who is not telling me the truth when they talk with me. A conversation I had two months ago on this subject now becomes more important as facts are made clear to me.

I think a lot of people that were told one thing in the past, and were fed another later, would have liked something like this.

-ski

Not to mention that the first screenshot in the OP is merely a week old.

[Azaghul]

You are assuming your "spy" isn't compromised, isn't a double agent, and hasn't already been caught and Schattenman is using old material spread over time.

How exactly would a spy act as a double agent? Feed fake screen shots? It would be very difficult to effectively be a "double agent" in this context.

[Azrael Alexander]

That line should be the official Toilet Seat motto.

What are you on about guys

I see what your driving out, but in the upper echelons it's exciting either way.

[zoskia]

Hey... Grub isn't in an incredibly difficult position...

The ones who didn't like the change of Government in Polaris have left Polaris several months ago... in 2008.

And Grub, we all like him. Specially because he's probably one of the most skilled persons in CN organizing armies or the "war" side of the game. He's amazing for the technical side of the game... but also very good as a political leader.

Whilst Sponge... he's good playing the political side of the game (if I *ignore* the shameless scandal that caused his departure from Polaris), but he's not too good organizing the most "technical" side of an Alliance. Honestly... the only "power" that Polaris had with him as an Emperor was the diplomatic relations and the fact that Polaris had a lot of members, but otherwise we weren't really an organized Alliance (except for killing ghosts... we've always been good at that under all the Emperors we've had). IMHO, he gets too involved in the RP side of the game... whilst he doesn't pay much attention to military strategies or the "maths" side of the game (except, of course, the easy "maths" like "Alliance with 400 members wins wars against Alliance with 30 members").

But, honestly, this "sponge vs. grub" stuff is bizarre... I'm quite sure that not only all the members of Polaris would find this idea quite bizarre, but also Grub and Sponge themselves.

[BarbulaM1]

Shact, I must say another engrossing issue of TWiP, quite possibly the most interesting one yet! (Actually I am pretty sure it is the most interesting).

Here is to Vox et. al. for keeping the rest of us on our toes and the world as a whole interesting o/

btw, is that someone suggesting that transparency be exercised instead of blatant counter spying on possible foes, yet also possible allies? I thought we got rid of formal alliance spying back after the collapse of the GATO Security Council led by Chris_Kaos? At least Vox is keeping the seemingly willful back alley (a ritzy back alley with lots of powerful leaders) not willfully transparent!

[shahenshah]

So seeing your passionate response and the fact that you are the current Secretary of State, does that mean I struck a nerve? I mean, this was by no means an attack on RON. I was just pointing out the abandonment of IRON's ideals; and using it as a counterclaim against Dr. Sponge's origional message. If anything you should be happy, I was argueing against one of your enemies who has cause apparently quite a bit of internal Q drama.

So what if he's Sec of State or President for that matter? Vox is supposed to provide amusement, and everyone can pay a visit and have some good times

and you know more about IRON ideals than one of IRON's most veteran members? Why don't you apply, with your deep knowledge of IRON , I'm sure you can make it to the President's seat

By the way, you forgot to write internal Q drama in past tense... + every bloc has some sort of internal drama and if it takes only this much and such old drama to create so much excitement, then like I said in earlier post, its all good, and TWiP actually helps lower the boredom and acts as a source of stability and peace, hence in-line with the goals of 'ebil' hegemony.

[Rebel Virginia]

You are assuming your "spy" isn't compromised, isn't a double agent, and hasn't already been caught and Schattenman is using old material spread over time.

First, as I mentioned earlier, if the spy were caught we would all know by now. You see, these aren't exactly nobody's we're dealing with here. The top dogs of the Continuum are big names. If one gets expelled and ZIed for being a Vox spy, people will notice.

Secondly, even if the spy is a double agent, what exactly would they hope to gain from Vox? I do believe you've said it yourself. Vox isn't that big or important. You can spy on them all you want, but you'll never gain anything for value. If you're going to send in a double agent, who will be giving valuable information away to your enemy to keep the agent in their trust, you at least want to make sure you're getting something in return.

Logic, my friend. Learn to use it.

[BarbulaM1]

So what if he's Sec of State or President for that matter? Vox is supposed to provide amusement, and everyone can pay a visit and have some good times

and you know more about IRON ideals than one of IRON's most veteran members? Why don't you apply, with your deep knowledge of IRON , I'm sure you can make it to the President's seat

By the way, you forgot to write internal Q drama in past tense... + every bloc has some sort of internal drama and if it takes only this much and such old drama to create so much excitement, then like I said in earlier post, its all good, and TWiP actually helps lower the boredom and acts as a source of stability and peace, hence in-line with the goals of 'ebil' hegemony.

Internal drama happens everywhere? Even involving our mighty infallible Pacifica!? Blasphemy!