Melchior Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 First, being able to distinguish what is rhetorical and what is literal is your friend.I know "why" people come on here and say things about people picking on them on IRC etc etc. The bleeding hearts love a victim and if you give them one they may take up preference for your "side". It was more of an admonishing than a legitimate inquiry. I daresay I know how to move the masses and manipulate the psychology of the populace better than most here when you get right down to it. Somehow I have far more friends than I know of. One thing I do know, is that my ability to take things literal in a discussion of a professional subject is astonishing, unless it be obviously distinguishable. I could say that my words are merely ironical if proved blatantly wrong, hence it's supposed to be obvious, but it isn't. I apologise for my part. No, please don't put words in my mouth.The fact that the IC/OOC divide is long gone, the fact that people are, whether IC or OOC, calling for people's death, is beyond the pale. I have no love lost for Vox, and while I will continue to read TWiP because it offers a few laughs, I wouldn't be angered if it left. However, I am not willing to put the blame on any faction fully. Everyone needs to pull way back and examine what they are doing. If your only reason (you as in general, not you as in Melchior) to remain in this thread is to one up the next guy, it's time to move on to the next thread. I didn't. I just agreed with your statement after twisting it slightly. Yet again I agree with you, I also enjoy reading TWiP, but I dislike being lied to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Litler Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Right but at what cost? Why would anyone willingly wish to make themselves look so weak and frail? Their condition is more than the mere appearance of frailty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I didn't. I just agreed with your statement after twisting it slightly. Yet again I agree with you, I also enjoy reading TWiP, but I dislike being lied to. Fair enough then. I'll buy the coffee, you get the donuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacky Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 OOC: It also shows which people take this game way too seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 What is this "OOC" you're all talking of, and don't you know that RL is a myth? I thought this discussion was about the Pacifican mistakes with Deal scammers, and how Pacifica would be repressing dissent... [ooc] (Rebel Virginia's Masterly Lesson on the OOC Card, and on The Claiming of the Moral High Ground.) Well said! I think that Doitzel already well defined the tactic problem as "character assassination": You'd think after all the attempts at character assassination you guys have made you'd clean up your form a bit. You haven't even finished with me. I concur that the usage of the "OOC card" reflects bad on those that use it and I add that it's also very poor gameplay. This thread has now been completely ruined by it... Maybe it's effective as a tactic after all, but again it's extremely poor as a way to counter an argument. [/ooc] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 OOC: After what OOC did to the UJW, I personally just gave up on it. Everything I do is IC, everything I say is as a person on the internet. If you take the internet that seriously, you should probably go outside. This all said, I personally have never threatened anyone, think it's ridiculous that such threats happen, yet, find them mostly comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I don't keep up with much here. I am a bit of a showboater and blowhard and I just pipe in on occasion to either stir the pot or piss people off.But, I don't quite understand all the concern over supposed threats over the computer. This may be because I am old but I don't think so. If someone tells me on IRC that they hope I die in RL I will say "good, one day I will" and move on. If someone says they will kill me I say "now I have to launch my IGNORE bomb at you". If someone says you live at X address and I am going to come over and $%&@ your wife then I will probably contact the appropriate authorities. At no point would coming onto the forum to !@#$%* and moan and whine about it be an option. So why do so many of you do it? Why, Emperor Moldavi, but didn't you know that it's your mewling little Moo that did just that to get Emperor Sponge couped? But then you know all about Moo and coups. What course of action would you recommend Vox take for members that make such comments? Put them in government perhaps? Dont' expect an answer, they don't take the hard ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I have to say on the Raga issue I'm perplexed. He made a post on the OWF a while back concerning what he wanted for GATO's future, and I didn't agree and posted to that end with all of my concerns. That evening he specifically seeked me out to communicate with me (OOC: IRC) about any concerns, misunderstandings and questions I had about his post. I found him to be polite, respectful and above all enjoyable to communicate and even disagree with. I'm very much struggling to believe that Raga deserves the expulsion from his position, certainly on the evidence I've see thus far. My condolences go out to someone I believe to be an excellent nation leader who if kept from an official position in GATO, will be a large loss to them. Note: I'm up to page 6, if anything in between there and here changes this opinion I will edit or make a new post. I'd be surprised though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 @Imhotep I personally get angered at the double standard when I see people support things like that when, if done by an enemy, they would have chastised and destroyed the enemy for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I see Raga joined STA then in the later pages. GATO's loss is STA's gain I guess. Good luck. I look forward to next week's issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 @ImhotepI personally get angered at the double standard when I see people support things like that when, if done by an enemy, they would have chastised and destroyed the enemy for. Without double standards there would be very little reason for war. It's the double standards that cause most every conflict, atleast every conflict since the UjW that I can think of (I could be wrong, I don't know.) The people at the top need something to make life interesting, so they bait, they set traps, they attempt to isolate and ostracize, and they go out of their way for a reason for war just so they can have one. They never want war though. What they want is for people to roll over and accept the thrashing they want to dish out, while taking as little damage to themselves as possible. That's why they isolate and ostracize, atleast. Anyway, how you doin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 OOC: The OOC card was played in the UjW and it was so effective that people use it to hope that they can get their (IC) opponents out of the way. Also, when people see those who were so hot on the issue in the UjW doing similar things, the card is played along with the Hypocrisy and Double Standards cards because hypocrisy in metagaming is lame. IC: The GATO business is pretty poor ... but then again they should never have signed 'peace terms' that have them under indefinite occupation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 OOC: The OOC card was played in the UjW and it was so effective that people use it to hope that they can get their (IC) opponents out of the way. Also, when people see those who were so hot on the issue in the UjW doing similar things, the card is played along with the Hypocrisy and Double Standards cards because hypocrisy in metagaming is lame.IC: The GATO business is pretty poor ... but then again they should never have signed 'peace terms' that have them under indefinite occupation. Perhaps valuable allies of the NPO who detest such might be able to exert political pressure to right wrongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Obama Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Perhaps valuable allies of the NPO who detest such might be able to exert political pressure to right wrongs. NPO is a sovereign alliance and makes their own decisions in regard to the alliance of GATO. Although, if any of their allies want to speak to Pacifica about it, I am sure NPO would take their considerations into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 IC: The GATO business is pretty poor ... but then again they should never have signed 'peace terms' that have them under indefinite occupation. What choice did they have, really? Sure they could keep fighting but knowing NPO there was likely also the addendum to the terms that the longer they waited the more harshly GATO would be treated. GATO had no chance at victory and was willing to take peace at a high price to save their alliance. I don't see them as holding any blame in their treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) I don't think this got enough attention before. Shall we make our trolls IOs Moozie? Ahem, I made it there not once but twice, thank you very much. A new one would not set precedent. If someone tells me on IRC that they hope I die in RL I will say "good, one day I will" and move on. Even considering Xhadam said nastier things about you and me than the ones exposed here, most of those in public, point taken. You are correct. Consider who it comes from and move on. On the other hand, it is amazing that you guys still haven't come up to an excuse to fire the prick - and you know who you are . Nobody likes him, he always gets in trouble and save for his verbal diarrhea (which is sometimes useful under pressure, granted), he is hardly indispensible. Just do it already. Edited February 25, 2009 by Mussolandia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Even considering Xhadam said nastier things about you and me than the ones exposed here, most of those in public, point taken. You are correct. Consider who it comes from and move on.On the other hand, it is amazing that you guys still haven't come up to an excuse to fire the prick - and you know who you are . Nobody likes him, he always gets in trouble and save for his verbal diarrhea (which is sometimes useful under pressure, granted), he is hardly indispensible. Just do it already. Tell us what you really think, Comrade. Don't be shy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 But, I don't quite understand all the concern over supposed threats over the computer. This may be because I am old but I don't think so. Wait, wait, how could I miss this little tidbit. Please, you DIDN'T just say that. For crying out loud, you waged an entire war and destroyed a group of alliances because you thought things like those were not ok. OOC: This new persona of yours doesn't cease to disappoint me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Tell us what you really think, Comrade. Don't be shy. Never been a man at a loss for words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Cao Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Interesting and well written, keep these up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Why, Emperor Moldavi, but didn't you know that it's your mewling little Moo that did just that to get Emperor Sponge couped? But then you know all about Moo and coups.Dont' expect an answer, they don't take the hard ones. Something that people seem to frequently neglect over this OOC/IC divide issue is that you have to be responsible for your actions. If I say OOC that I want you to die, people aren't going to like me, OOC, or IC. Tough. People can say whatever the heck they want, but you have to deal with the consequences if some people don't like what you said, IC or OOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unko Kalaikz Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Something that people seem to frequently neglect over this OOC/IC divide issue is that you have to be responsible for your actions. If I say OOC that I want you to die, people aren't going to like me, OOC, or IC. Tough. People can say whatever the heck they want, but you have to deal with the consequences if some people don't like what you said, IC or OOC. This is something people in the OPs alliance have a difficult time conceptualizing. The actions you take and the words you say are very often far less important than the future consequences, regardless whether you have a "right" or other "justification" for what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakkk Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 what is IC and OOC IC: In cybernations OOC: Out of Cybernations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) OOC: Perhaps long ago some great moralizing power set precedent by causing a major war over such attacks. Dont' expect an answer, they don't take the hard ones. I was hoping that with the upsurge in imperial activity in this thread, perhaps the venerable Mr. Revenge would deign to address the subject with his characteristic eloquence. However it seems old ghosts of Pacifican past have now taken over. They will no doubt frighten his imperial majesty away. edit: wrote "what" when I meant "have" Edited February 25, 2009 by Sal Paradise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unko Kalaikz Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I was hoping that with the upsurge in imperial activity in this thread, perhaps the venerable Mr. Revenge would deign to address the subject with his characteristic eloquence. However it seems old ghosts of Pacifican past what now taken over. They will no doubt frighten his imperial majesty away. My thoughts, perhaps, that his Imperial Majesty would not deign to exchange words with terrorists and rabblerousers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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