This Week in Pacifica

[HeinousOne]

The only thing of interest really was the GATO part, the rest has already been refuted pretty well.

Anyone care to explain through that, or is there a good explanation lost in the ten pages before?

Agreed, found it kind of amusing that my name was slipped in there at the end.

[Azaghul]

Moo handled that OOC thing well, every alliance has issues with people going over the line on crap like that occasionally and it looks like appropriate action was taken to counter it.

I think a lot of us would be interested to hear that GATO issue explained.

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

I think a lot of us would be interested to hear that GATO issue explained.

Quick! Someone start a poll!

[Juan Valdez]

An interesting read. Thanks. I shall continue to subscribe.

[deth2munkies]

ITT: Z'ha'dum being a prick.

Not news.

The NPO abusing it's permanent viceroy over GATO.

Not news.

FAN spies stealing money from the NPO.

Not news.

Why do people find it interesting? I mean I think this has actually had the opposite effect. The only thing I got out of this thread was finding myself applauding the upper leadership of the NPO for dealing with the inability of a few of their members to seemingly EVER be civil.

[Schattenmann]

This is what Vox actually believes?

The general consensus seems to be that you shot yourselves in the foot over that one. Revealing the formation of a bloc that could be considered a threat to NPO before the time was right is hardly a brilliant idea if you don't like NPO.

No, this is not what Vox actually "believes." It is simply actuality, reality. I took over half a dozen queries and PMs from bleary-eyed MHA members and gvoernment asking why-oh-why! did I have to post those screenshots not to mentioned the pages' worth of the same in the first TWiP.

The bottom line is still the same but some folks like you still don't get it 3 weeks later: Bastion was not a surprise to anyone that needed to know about it, and if it never shows up it's because the alliances in talks were always too afraid to go forward with it. Hell, MHA voted it down but your government hasn't even got the balls to face it's talk partners and tell them so.

See you're an utter paradox within your own reasoning--NPO knew about the bloc, but I revealed it? How's that work? Or did you just not read the part of your government's post where Floyd says himself that he told NPO about it? Which is it? Am I a week late and a dollar short or am I a Planet-Shifting Monolith?

Have Vox outlets been sloppy on more than one occassion? Of course. Have we "shot ourselves in the foot"? Hell no. I can fight my little fight against the power superstructure for as long as MHA is too worried about its score to move and I can't make them move any more or less fast than they're going to.

Moo handled that OOC thing well, every alliance has issues with people going over the line on crap like that occasionally and it looks like appropriate action was taken to counter it.

I think a lot of us would be interested to hear that GATO issue explained.

Thank you, that's very enlightening. Do you care to comment on why this instance was a problem, but not Z'ha'dum's long and storied history of the same?

But I think you have already answered: Because this time it got out to the public and made you look bad because you were in fact asleep at the controls. The gap between the two examples is 4 months. It's been 6 since Z'ha'dum told a human kill himself over de Profundis. How many times does the Z'ha'dum Hate Machine get to malfunction?

Come on Azaghul, we all know that Z'ha'dum in particular has had this same issue over and over and over again and you're going to stooge out with "people" and "occassionally" Z'ha'dum and MaskofBlue aren't "people" one is an IO and the other is a Councillor. Why don't we just go ahead and say "GOONS had some issues with people occassionally"? Give me a break!

Why do people find it interesting? I mean I think this has actually had the opposite effect. The only thing I got out of this thread was finding myself applauding the upper leadership of the NPO for dealing with the inability of a few of their members to seemingly EVER be civil.

You too? So if Neverender runs someone out of MK--or, pardon me, Emperor Moo's screenshots revealed that Sileath was expelled not resigned as I reported (you might have missed them, one link was broken and the mods removed another for profanity)--so if Neverender tells a member to get out then flames the piss out that member in public, to allies, and on MK's boards, it's "just some member being a jerk"?

You've got nukes again, you can start talking with your crotch.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Schattenmann

[Nintenderek]

ITT: Z'ha'dum being a prick.

Not news.

The NPO abusing it's permanent viceroy over GATO.

Not news.

FAN spies stealing money from the NPO.

Not news.

Yes, this is true, but it's not usually in a Schattenmann RP style news article, which makes it that much more interesting.

[OPArsenal]

cool story bro.

edit: also, you can be banned from #npowned for absolutely any reason anyone with ops can think of, and I actually believe there's a thread mentioning said op abuse, one of the things I disliked about being a Pacifican.

You shoulda seen the PCIA boards. Good. God.

[Sileath]

I was not intending to reply to this thread. I am choosing to do so based on some of the other replies I've seen.

There is no mention of the plethora of asinine things I've said while on the NPO forums/in the chat rooms. My behavior, while psychotic, was accompanied by dedication to my positions as a squad leader and diplomat and unwavering loyalty to Pacifica.

The incident outlined in the OP was an internal Pacifican matter. It was routed through proper channels, and was settled in what I felt to be an appropriate matter. My relations with Zhadum and MaskofBlue recovered quickly after the incident after we talked about it and had cooled off. The Pacifican Press article, honestly, did not surprise me given the popular demand for my head after the nature of the comments I made prior to my resignation. The reaction by Emperor Moo, detailed in his post, exemplified the class which I already knew he had.

Moo is one of my trade partners. I am at war with a rogue from my alliance who tech raided a Red nation. The NPO government referenced the Revenge Doctrine in their request for the war to end, which Another Alliance agreed with. The /A\/A\ member did not heed the calls of /A\/A\ government to call off the attack, and is thus considered a rogue.

Neither myself nor my alliance considers NPO to be an enemy. I could go on, but I've said what I feel needed to be said, given my prominent placement in the OP.

[Schattenmann]

: ::close fast reply:: :

Edited February 24, 2009 by Schattenmann

[deth2munkies]

You too? So if Neverender runs someone out of MK--or, pardon me, Emperor Moo's screenshots revealed that Sileath was expelled not resigned as I reported (you might have missed them, one link was broken and the mods removed another for profanity)--so if Neverender tells a member to get out then flames the piss out that member in public, to allies, and on MK's boards, it's "just some member being a jerk"?

You've got nukes again, you can start talking with your crotch.

It's a bad comparison. It'd be like Airme harassing the hell out of me then Archon telling him to shut the $%&@ up. I consider Dilber a manipulative individual that can't be trusted, but he's still polite and somewhat respectful of other people, which can't be said for Zha'dum. It's not like he hides that fact, it's not news that he treats people like dirt. Therefore you showed me through all your log dumps and screenshots that the NPO doesn't allow it's government to rampantly troll their populace.

I never said I liked the NPO, nor did I think they actually allowed that stuff in the first place, but none of this is breaking news or actually makes your case.

As for talking with my crotch...you don't read many of my posts, do you?

[TrotskysRevenge]

Thank you, that's very enlightening. Do you care to comment on why this instance was a problem, but not Z'ha'dum's long and storied history of the same?

But I think you have already answered: Because this time it got out to the public and made you look bad because you were in fact asleep at the controls. The gap between the two examples is 4 months. It's been 6 since Z'ha'dum told a human kill himself over de Profundis. How many times does the Z'ha'dum Hate Machine get to malfunction?

Every alliance has internal issues from time to time; every alliance has members that go over the top from time to time. What happened with Doitzel was unacceptable and was dealt with. What happened with Sileath was unacceptable and was dealt with. I'm sure if we put every alliance under a microscope and posted their internal screen shots we would see similar situations.

The reason this became public is because you spied into our internal members-only part of our forum; I would hold that you would find similar issues in virtually every alliance if you took the time to spy their six-month old threads as well. The issue should be the fact that you spy; even if it is done badly. But no one seems to care about that; for some reason you have carte blanche to spy on anyone you want. But in the final analysis, what you are doing is wrong and you will reap what you sow.

[Schattenmann]

It's a bad comparison. It'd be like Airme harassing the hell out of me then Archon telling him to shut the $%&@ up.

After you'd already been ridiculed and demonized to the point that it no longer mattered at all becuse you're gone and no one wants you back. And that besides, that Archon only said such things because of the embarrassment, not the substance. But, again, you missed that due to that part of the conversation [OOC]being removed by Megabyte for rules violations (cursing)[/OOC]

I consider Dilber a manipulative individual that can't be trusted, but he's still polite and somewhat respectful of other people, which can't be said for Zha'dum. It's not like he hides that fact, it's not news that he treats people like dirt. Therefore you showed me through all your log dumps and screenshots that the NPO doesn't allow it's government to rampantly troll their populace.

But there's where you're wrong becuase how/i] long has Zha been doign this? And is he still an IO? And was he always an IO while he was doing it? These are rhetorical but I don't trust everyone to be as smart as you and me, the answers are "Yes"

I never said I liked the NPO, nor did I think they actually allowed that stuff in the first place, but none of this is breaking news or actually makes your case.

If my "case" is "NPO gov member run rampant whenever the bug itches even if it means a bi-annual ream-out from Moo because they know nothing will really happent to them" and then I post the abuse and then Moo posts nothing real, nothing of substance, happening, then how have I not made my case? No, you refuse to see the case because you've decided that there's nothing to be seen.

As for talking with my crotch...you don't read many of my posts, do you?

None that don't interest me.

[Doitzel]

I was not intending to reply to this thread. I am choosing to do so based on some of the other replies I've seen.

There is no mention of the plethora of asinine things I've said while on the NPO forums/in the chat rooms. My behavior, while psychotic, was accompanied by dedication to my positions as a squad leader and diplomat and unwavering loyalty to Pacifica.

The incident outlined in the OP was an internal Pacifican matter. It was routed through proper channels, and was settled in what I felt to be an appropriate matter. My relations with Zhadum and MaskofBlue recovered quickly after the incident after we talked about it and had cooled off. The Pacifican Press article, honestly, did not surprise me given the popular demand for my head after the nature of the comments I made prior to my resignation. The reaction by Emperor Moo, detailed in his post, exemplified the class which I already knew he had.

Moo is one of my trade partners. I am at war with a rogue from my alliance who tech raided a Red nation. The NPO government referenced the Revenge Doctrine in their request for the war to end, which Another Alliance agreed with. The /A\/A\ member did not heed the calls of /A\/A\ government to call off the attack, and is thus considered a rogue.

Neither myself nor my alliance considers NPO to be an enemy. I could go on, but I've said what I feel needed to be said, given my prominent placement in the OP.

Did you ever get an apology?

[mmansfield68]

TWiP, you are the TRUE news source. Love you, babies!

[Schattenmann]

Every alliance has internal issues from time to time; every alliance has members that go over the top from time to time. What happened with Doitzel was unacceptable and was dealt with. What happened with Sileath was unacceptable and was dealt with. I'm sure if we put every alliance under a microscope and posted their internal screen shots we would see similar situations.

The reason this became public is because you spied into our internal members-only part of our forum; I would hold that you would find similar issues in virtually every alliance if you took the time to spy their six-month old threads as well. The issue should be the fact that you spy; even if it is done badly. But no one seems to care about that; for some reason you have carte blanche to spy on anyone you want. But in the final analysis, what you are doing is wrong and you will reap what you sow.

Will I reap what I sow?

Because if you're the reaper it seems that you'll fuss at me while Vengashii backtalks you, then DarkMistress will fuss at me a little too while she can get away with it, then I give it 2 months and I can do it again then you fuss at me, then I wait 4 months anf you fuss at me some more.

Woooooo! Please, no, oh reaper! Don't make me face your wrath--that wrath which was less and laughable compared to the offense you were yelling about! Oh lawdy, papa, not the cane!

Do you care to actually answer the question now? Do you care to address this: How many chances does Z'ha'dum get? How many times can he make wild claims about Admin on your public areas? How many? How about this one: What does Z'ha'dum have on Moo that he can do whatever he damn well pleases without fear? What's the Golden Ticket?

Edited February 24, 2009 by Schattenmann

[Cortath]

As someone who's spent their entire career in Pacifica being told that the vagaries of selling and buying technology is super boring, I'm glad to find that Vox agrees with me that it's terribly interesting for the second week in a row.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Cortath

[deth2munkies]

After you'd already been ridiculed and demonized to the point that it no longer mattered at all becuse you're gone and no one wants you back. And that besides, that Archon only said such things because of the embarrassment, not the substance. But, again, you missed that due to that part of the conversation [OOC]being removed by Megabyte for rules violations (cursing)[/OOC]

But there's where you're wrong becuase how/i] long has Zha been doign this? And is he still an IO? And was he always an IO while he was doing it? These are rhetorical but I don't trust everyone to be as smart as you and me, the answers are "Yes"

If my "case" is "NPO gov member run rampant whenever the bug itches even if it means a bi-annual ream-out from Moo because they know nothing will really happent to them" and then I post the abuse and then Moo posts nothing real, nothing of substance, happening, then how have I not made my case? No, you refuse to see the case because you've decided that there's nothing to be seen.

None that don't interest me.

Perhaps I am overly optimistic in assuming that their words actually mean something, but you didn't succeed in demonizing the NPO as much as you hoped.

I don't know about you (although I can guess) but being in a demonized state doesn't last very long if you know how to conduct yourself. Then again there are those that don't give a crap about being demonized and, in fact, relish it and turn the pure ridiculousness of it on the ones doing the demonizing (a la Vox and, to a lesser extent, me).

Anyway, the reason I don't find it news is that these are all repeat incidents, it just reaffirms the fact that the NPO is largely the same, but unlike most propaganda, actually shows some of the responses to the negative incidents and they aren't all that terrible.

Also, I'll reiterate that it's not my style to post anything but what my uncensored opinion is, and this is it.

[turboflame]

No, this is not what Vox actually "believes." It is simply actuality, reality. I took over half a dozen queries and PMs from bleary-eyes MHA members and gvoernment asking why-oh-why! did I have to post those screenshots not to mentioned the pages' worth of the same in the first TWiP.

People get pissed when they are spied on, you know this and expect this. Still, you probably did more damage to your cause than to us with that leak.

and if it never shows up it's because the alliances in talks were always too afraid to go forward with it. Hell, MHA voted it down but your government hasn't even got the balls to face it's talk partners and tell them so.

So putting it under a microscope for all the world to see would help it go forward?

See you're an utter paradox within your own reasoning--NPO knew about the bloc, but I revealed it?

You did reveal it to the general populace, in a way that showed you supported the move and under the context that it was an anti NPO bloc. Again, this would not be the thing to do to ease people into the idea of getting involved.

The NPO and everyone involved obviously knew about it, so why even post it in the first place? There is really no incentive to do so other than to show off your spy network and someone getting a basic membership in an alliance isn't mind boggling.

I can fight my little fight against the power superstructure for as long as MHA is too worried about its score to move and I can't make them move any more or less fast than they're going to.

If you believe this then why do you bother? It seems like a waste of effort if all of the drama conjured up from these spy threads doesn't have any effect on the real(cyber) world

Edited February 24, 2009 by turboflame

[Schattenmann]

And, Ghost of Thoreau! Moo! I can just hear your voice trembling as you bolded "you spied" and I well up with a belly laugh. Only alliances that don't spy get to complain about Vox spying.

[Ragashingo]

Every alliance has internal issues from time to time; every alliance has members that go over the top from time to time. What happened with Doitzel was unacceptable and was dealt with. What happened with Sileath was unacceptable and was dealt with. I'm sure if we put every alliance under a microscope and posted their internal screen shots we would see similar situations.

The reason this became public is because you spied into our internal members-only part of our forum; I would hold that you would find similar issues in virtually every alliance if you took the time to spy their six-month old threads as well. The issue should be the fact that you spy; even if it is done badly. But no one seems to care about that; for some reason you have carte blanche to spy on anyone you want. But in the final analysis, what you are doing is wrong and you will reap what you sow.

Dude, you're at war with them. Don't come whining on these boards about how they're spying on you when you keep them and others locked in permanent wars or governmental strangleholds, or infinite peace term requirements. Either toughen up and deal with it or end the war so you don't have to.

[Nintenderek]

Agreed, found it kind of amusing that my name was slipped in there at the end.

I see nothing amusing about you leaving an alliance to protect it.

[Earogema]

Dude, you're at war with them. Don't come whining on these boards about how they're spying on you when you keep them and others locked in permanent wars or governmental strangleholds, or infinite peace term requirements. Either toughen up and deal with it or end the war so you don't have to.

In this small paragraph, you've said it all, and yet, they still won't listen.

[bbrownso]

Dude, you're at war with them. Don't come whining on these boards about how they're spying on you when you keep them and others locked in permanent wars or governmental strangleholds, or infinite peace term requirements. Either toughen up and deal with it or end the war so you don't have to.

If you consider that whining, then you must have a very warped definition of whining.

He was merely pointing out how spying was an offense people didn't like or endorse back in the past. He was also pointing out that NPO isn't immune to the same problems that other alliances face at one point or another. It's not really possible to control the actions of 900 nations and that any problems that arise must be handled as they arise.

[BarbulaM1]

The entire GATO war was started with a spy from NPO's side of the house inside GATO's government channel, spying is legal when one has a big stick. Now we know that either you carry a big stick and it is legal OR you carry none at all and it isn't punishable.

As for the abuse of power within GATO, would one be so kind to explain? I do my Morte so.

Mind thee, Queenie TPF?

Edited February 24, 2009 by BarbulaM1