Stumpy Jung Il Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I think its stupid to call someone like that a spy. In this modern age, as everyone likes to point out, being unalligned is not an option, especially when you are a juicy target. People need to join alliances to be protected, even if they are hoping to get themselves together and make a new alliance in the future. Making an alliance takes time, time you cannot spend in peace mode or sitting in the open. Is joining an alliance while just planning to leave shady and low class? You bet your $@! it is. However, it would be a huge leap to call such a move spying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I think its stupid to call someone like that a spy. In this modern age, as everyone likes to point out, being unalligned is not an option, especially when you are a juicy target. People need to join alliances to be protected, even if they are hoping to get themselves together and make a new alliance in the future. Making an alliance takes time, time you cannot spend in peace mode or sitting in the open. Is joining an alliance while just planning to leave shady and low class? You bet your $@! it is. However, it would be a huge leap to call such a move spying. I wouldn't go to the extent of calling them a spy but joining an alliance in that manner is far from the only option. They all had the option of staying in MCXA and being low key in the alliance until their new home was read (the only reason it seems they didn't want to do that was so that they could distract from the fact that this alliance was planned while they were all still in MCXA) They could have gone into PM (yeah it sucks but its better than free loading IMHO). They could have joined the red team, at their size the chance of them being raided while on red is slim to none. Or they could have been upfront with the alliance they were joining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I agree. It is not spying but it is a low class move and alliances which are used in that way are justified in their anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 There are no need of join an alliance if your objective is just have protection for a short time, there are Red Sphere, Peace mode and Citadel Trading Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hertugen Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Grämlins, it is time to betray TOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linden16 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) Grämlins, it is time to betray TOP. WTF?? Edited February 27, 2009 by Linden16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 After all that has happened here, the only thing I am sure about is that the big winner here is MCXA. Biggest example of addition by subtraction I have ever seen, and the attitude of TSO members towards their departure only drives that fact home. Absolutely. Actually I knew that the moment I saw the TSO roster but this just keeps looking better for MCXA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arentak Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 OOC: The more I read of this thread, the more I believe TSO is CN's version of Roland Burris. You know, that was pretty funny. I'll try to not take offense at all the hate being heaped onto our protectorate, especially when there's humor involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenzilla Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 You know, that was pretty funny. I'll try to not take offense at all the hate being heaped onto our protectorate, especially when there's humor involved. You are a very good sport. I'm still awaiting Saber's epic announcement or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diomede Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Patience, young grasshopper? I've slightly lost track of what we're discussing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 As many have said. Most problems people had with the MCXA was with the high level government who went to TSO. MCXA will come out better from this, and eventually stronger. Also really TSO, you couldn't have thought of a better way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) Also really TSO, you couldn't have thought -- Nope! Ah but seriously though, I think MCXA might find a lost little Vidian wandering around their forums now. Please don't eat him, ok? Edited February 27, 2009 by hizzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Nope! Ah but seriously though, I think MCXA might find a lost little Vidian wandering around their forums now. Please don't eat him, ok? Same about this Viridian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kremlin Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 You are a very good sport. I'm still awaiting Saber's epic announcement or whatever. We're going to post it when the thread hits 100 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 On the earlier debate: If someone joins an alliance fully intending to leave, and takes stuff with him (like guides) I'd fully consider that spying. Not saying that happened here, but the distinction needs to be made, as it's happened in the past and people got rolled for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theArrowheadian Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 On the earlier debate: If someone joins an alliance fully intending to leave, and takes stuff with him (like guides) I'd fully consider that spying. Not saying that happened here, but the distinction needs to be made, as it's happened in the past and people got rolled for it. How do you know they took anything? There really isn't any guide worth taking anymore with what Sponge has done w/ his collection. The only thing that is true is they intended to leave. The only reason I can speculate on why say a few TSO members joined USN was to see what other former MCXA members who were not part of TSO were telling USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 On the earlier debate: If someone joins an alliance fully intending to leave, and takes stuff with him (like guides) I'd fully consider that spying. Not saying that happened here, but the distinction needs to be made, as it's happened in the past and people got rolled for it. Certainly if they take guides, but I doubt they would have need of any from USN considering they had so recently been in MCXA government. As I understand it, the TSO members-to-be simply exploited USN protection by pretending they intended to be actual, contributing members. Not spying, but not exactly admirable either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 How do you know they took anything? There really isn't any guide worth taking anymore with what Sponge has done w/ his collection. The only thing that is true is they intended to leave. The only reason I can speculate on why say a few TSO members joined USN was to see what other former MCXA members who were not part of TSO were telling USN. So.... spying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Alright. I made it 60 of the 64 pages before I just couldn't stomach reading it anymore. If I missed anything earth shattering in the last 4 pages, I'm sure someone will correct me. All I can say in this thread is that it looks like people's emotions are in the way, which is to be expected. It would be nice if we could remove ourselves from this thread, and perhaps revisit it in 3 or 6 months. I'm sure a lot of the responses would be different. (And I know I'm not helping anyone move on from the thread by posting in it.) That said, I find the responses, and attitude of the new TSO members something a little lacking. Yes, you guys are entitled to defend yourselves and your decisions to move to another alliance. That said, the evidence really stacks up that you guys did not go about this correctly, and have hurt the MCXA in the process. When the Tattler story broke, that should have been the end of it. But since then I see TSO people becoming more entrenched in their positions, when you don't have a leg to stand on anymore, at all. It can even be seen in posts like those made by Jose. While you start off strong, eventually your arguments lose all merit. I think if any of you just stepped up and said "yes, we did things incorrectly. Yes we left MCXA in a lurch. Yes, we broke a number of conventions that Bob holds dear. That said, this is what we are doing, and I suggest you all move on, because we are." Then no more TSO or TOP people post in this thread, regardless of what is said. Problem solved (or at least, ignored, which is just the same at the end of the day.) I realize Valashu did that earlier on and that is one of the reasons that this thread reached 64 pages, but now in hindsight I think it was the right approach, it just wasn't delivered in the correct way. Also, Watchman... every time I think that TSO has lost all credibility, you post and prove me wrong. Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theArrowheadian Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 So.... spying? Basically, but it wasn't spying for info on USN, but on former MCXA members which most have returned to MCXA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Basically, but it wasn't spying for info on USN, but on former MCXA members which most have returned to MCXA. Ah ok. For a second I thought you were completely brushing off the idea of spying. Never mind then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 How do you know they took anything? Not saying that happened here Helps to actually read my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theArrowheadian Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Helps to actually read my post. Well actually, it wasn't just you who was doing the accusing, but your post was the most recent one and therefor fell victim to receiving a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Well actually, it wasn't just you who was doing the accusing, but your post was the most recent one and therefor fell victim to receiving a quote. I wasn't even accusing, lol, I was just pointing out that a lot of the times stuff like this has happened in the past, guys got rolled for taking guides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffyewunga Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) Basically, but it wasn't spying for info on USN, but on former MCXA members which most have returned to MCXA. The people in question were members of USN at the time therefore spying on them is spying on USN. Clear cut no questions. Edited February 27, 2009 by fluffy ewunga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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