Imperial Decree From The New Pacific Order

[Alexio15]

Just like it's logical to say you will get pulled in on the oA.

That's even if it expands further and if it even gets that far. Another factor is while we have oA agreements the likelier option for us to be pulled in is on a defence clause. Optional goes to an alliance vote.

[rileyaddaff]

That's even if it expands further and if it even gets that far. Another factor is while we have oA agreements the likelier option for us to be pulled in is on a defence clause. Optional goes to an alliance vote.

The only way that would happen, in theory, is if NPO gets hit directly.

[berbers]

Umbrella as a matter of fact did engage AZTEC nations during Eq. I don't know where you came up with that line of revisionism, berbers.

EDIT: actually I know full well, it just isn't polite to say where it came out of.

 

I remember there being some discussion that AZTEC didn't want to expand outside of the TOP front, so I assumed that meant Umbrella wasn't fighting you, otherwise that line of discussion would have been pointless.  I do not have screenshots or anything other than memory, so if I am wrong, then I withdraw that point.

[Monster]

 

Weird, for some reason I thought the goons hit was right before the sanction, either way...

 

Your protectorate gets hit on the 13th, Sengoku engages with massive up declares and a huge disadvantage on the 15th, then many days later you decide that GOONS needs defending and declare 1 war on their top two and even manage some downdeclares on others.

 

Forgive me if I am wrong, wouldn't it have made more sense for your bigger tech nations to hit BONES and Tim while Sengoku attacked people with comparable tech?  I mean you guys joined the party once nukes were fairly used up and Sengoku were pulverized. 

 

Or was defending GOONS not a priority until Sengoku sucked up a ton of damage instead of you?

 

 

See above, they could have gone in first and actually participated at the level their nations would indicate they should in a bloc setting.

 

 

 

Not really a master plan, more of a by-product of Umbrella culture.  There are plenty of examples, like letting your allies take on the other dominant upper tier in the first NpO/SF stomp by not engaging FARK, by not engaging AZTEC on the TOP front in Eq, even when you won the upper tier war on your front, by allying anyone that would be a threat to your upper tier and sticking a knife in the back of your old coalition after Disorder and now letting Sengoku take the big hits from super nations while you wait until its a good time to come in.

 

 

 

 

You do realize that some of the architects of that war are in your bloc right now lol.  Why not just say you want revenge only on the people not helping you currently :/

 

 

 

Yeah, they dove into a bunch of people who have been pulverizing their allies for days, when they could control who and what got hit and when nukes were running low.  Top notch people those Umbrellans.  Oh and if it expands, they will use treaty ties to avoid the serious fight, you know it, I know it.

 

 

Well your actions this war are just consistent with prior wars really, nothing shocking.

 

I'm just worried about the AA's in Occulus that I genuinely like, if this goes a certain way and Umbrella doesn't get things the exact way they want, in all likelihood they will do another patented side switch and end up rolling some good friends.

 

Any deployment strategy was decided in concert with Sengoku's desires. Had they wanted us to engage in the way you describe, we likely would have. Trying to make it seem like we sent them out there to sacrifice themselves is very disingenuous. Both of MONGOLS top 2 would have been declared on if not for an issue that can't be discussed here. 

 

We didn't agree with the trajectory and pathway to that war and it was made clear long before it, but the amount of treaties we had on one side dictated our trajectory. Fark didn't hit an ally so given our treaty issues in that war, there was no reason for us to engage. Plenty of other alliances with top tiers that went unused who were more central to the conflict because of how Fark deployed didn't  get any flak. The expectation that we go out of our way to fight on a front of a war that mostly harmed our interests isn't a reasonable one.

 

As Auctor said, Umbrella did engage AZTEC in that front and virtually no one was avoided.

 

As for the last one, we had our treaties with AZTEC planned before the Disorder war, so this notion we suddenly decided to shift last minute to AZTEC in order to betray the Disorder War coalition is wrong. We wanted AZTEC and the side we had been on in the Disorder war to work as a unit and there was an understanding we had with AZTEC on it. It didn't work out in the end, but this has been confirmed by both us and AZTEC plenty of times.

 

This happens every war and people bring up the same tired old lines. There isn't really going to be any convincing on either end and no one is going to be swayed in terms of their opinion of us at this stage, so it's whatever.

 

Whatever points you hope to score by trying to play some sort of "Umb is screwing Sengoku" dynamic won't be put on the board, at least certainly not when it comes to Sengoku.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Monster

[Auctor]

I remember there being some discussion that AZTEC didn't want to expand outside of the TOP front, so I assumed that meant Umbrella wasn't fighting you, otherwise that line of discussion would have been pointless.  I do not have screenshots or anything other than memory, so if I am wrong, then I withdraw that point.

You are wrong. AZTEC made a decision not to counter Umbrella nations because we didn't have nations available that weren't committed to TOP/DoD/Alchemy/TSO front.

[Alexio15]

The only way that would happen, in theory, is if NPO gets hit directly.

Well the Oculus bloc is ahead of us but if requested we will oblige as obligated.

[rileyaddaff]

 
I remember there being some discussion that AZTEC didn't want to expand outside of the TOP front, so I assumed that meant Umbrella wasn't fighting you, otherwise that line of discussion would have been pointless.  I do not have screenshots or anything other than memory, so if I am wrong, then I withdraw that point.

The umbrella side of the conflict kept pulling AAs from the top front to fight umbrella. There was a certain point when they said enough is enough. That's when peace became an option

[Lord Hitchcock]

Well the Oculus bloc is ahead of us but if requested we will oblige as obligated.

 

you are trying way too hard

[Alexio15]

 
you are trying way too hard

Was going to ignore this but hell I will bite this once. That statement is very rich coming from you. Jumping into every conflict just to try and get some relevancy. Do tell me where I am going wrong so I can be just like you.

[Lord Hitchcock]

 Do tell me where I am going wrong so I can be just like you.

 

 

I still think Atlas is in a swing here, They could help NPO, they could help ODN. They could help DK. -which, it's very likely to escalate because I don't see Cuba letting BONEs tech get down to zero.

 

So I think you are really pulling up that skirt to get into the pixel hugging side

[Alexio15]

 
 
I still think Atlas is in a swing here, They could help NPO, they could help ODN. They could help DK. -which, it's very likely to escalate because I don't see Cuba letting BONEs tech get down to zero.
 
So I think you are really pulling up that skirt to get into the pixel hugging side

I don't mind which side I pull too. I'm happy to take a beating if that is what is required. However I'm not so sure it will evolve that far and if it does game on.

[Franz Ferdinand]

Doesn't matter. I only wanted the architects of the war, the people who set up the climate in which such a war would happen. Going after everyone who was involved in that war would be a bit over the top, and something I would have no interest in doing.

A good proportion of those are still allied with the New Pacific Order or Oculus so it would be somewhat hard for you to go after them without shooting yourself in the foot.

[berbers]

 

Any deployment strategy was decided in concert with Sengoku's desires. Had they wanted us to engage in the way you describe, we likely would have. Trying to make it seem like we sent them out there to sacrifice themselves is very disingenuous. Both of MONGOLS top 2 would have been declared on if not for an issue that can't be discussed here. 

 

 

 

I never said you sent them out to be sacrificed, I said you will look at the situation as it develops and limit your damage, regardless of the cost to your allies.  You will use things like <insert issue that can't be discussed here> throughout this war and it will result in you being less engaged than your weighting would suggest.

 

 

 

We didn't agree with the trajectory and pathway to that war and it was made clear long before it, but the amount of treaties we had on one side dictated our trajectory. Fark didn't hit an ally so given our treaty issues in that war, there was no reason for us to engage. Plenty of other alliances with top tiers that went unused who were more central to the conflict because of how Fark deployed didn't  get any flak. The expectation that we go out of our way to fight on a front of a war that mostly harmed our interests isn't a reasonable one.

 

 

There's the rub isn't it, Umbrella has no problem with ghost declarations or pre-emptives or anything else as long as it doesn't cause them to fight on a remotely even footing.  When that time comes it's always excuses like "well you can't expect us to go against our interests, my goodness"

 

 

As Auctor said, Umbrella did engage AZTEC in that front and virtually no one was avoided.

 

 

I withdraw that point then, I extrapolated something I shouldn't have.

 

 

 

As for the last one, we had our treaties with AZTEC planned before the Disorder war, so this notion we suddenly decided to shift last minute to AZTEC in order to betray the Disorder War coalition is wrong. We wanted AZTEC and the side we had been on in the Disorder war to work as a unit and there was an understanding we had with AZTEC on it. It didn't work out in the end, but this has been confirmed by both us and AZTEC plenty of times.

 

 

It didn't work out in the end, but it worked out for Umbrella in the end.  Funny how when it all goes bad, it's never you left holding the bag though eh?  Just people you left in the dust while you clawed your way out of tough fights over the beaten remains of your ex-allies and sometimes current ones.

 

 

This happens every war and people bring up the same tired old lines. There isn't really going to be any convincing on either end and no one is going to be swayed in terms of their opinion of us at this stage, so it's whatever.

 

Whatever points you hope to score by trying to play some sort of "Umb is screwing Sengoku" dynamic won't be put on the board, at least certainly not when it comes to Sengoku.

 

 

Well I mean if we aren't going to express our opinions, what's the point of even having an OWF?  I'm also not trying to say you are screwing Sengoku so much as reminding my buddies in NPO who they jumped into bed with.  It's always good times with Umbrella until the going gets a bit tough...

[Crownguard]

 

They could've countered just those  guys and oA another Oculus member in.  Its not like they are lacking in nations in range of Mongols.

 

 

Well I like some of the Doom Birds too, your company included, so it's unfortunate.  That said, we all do what we have to.  I would rather have you on our end, all things considered.

 

Outside of that, I could give a more cogent reply to berbers, but it would be lost in the shuffle anyways.  It's not as if I ever saw eye-to-eye with him while he was NATO either, but propaganda is propaganda.  

 

It's just really odd to hear about how were cowards for fighting when presumably the reason we have the stats to fight this war (at the level specified) is because of playing the game as it should be.  I mean it's cool to not like us, but I'm wondering at who the supposedly unswayed neutral observer types are on here that are being appealed to with this propaganda.

 

EDIT: I mean, where the hell do you expect people to go looking for a 'fair fight' in a war?  Do you want people to line up nice and neat and send challenges out?  Berbers, maybe you should recheck your alliance affiliation.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Crownguard

[berbers]

 
 
Well I like some of the Doom Birds too, your company included, so it's unfortunate.  That said, we all do what we have to.  I would rather have you on our end, all things considered.
 
Outside of that, I could give a more cogent reply to berbers, but it would be lost in the shuffle anyways.  It's not as if I ever saw eye-to-eye with him while he was NATO either, but propaganda is propaganda.  
 
It's just really odd to hear about how were cowards for fighting when presumably the reason we have the stats to fight this war (at the level specified) is because of playing the game as it should be.  I mean it's cool to not like us, but I'm wondering at who the supposedly unswayed neutral observer types are on here that are being appealed to with this propaganda.
 
EDIT: I mean, where the hell do you expect people to go looking for a 'fair fight' in a war?  Do you want people to line up nice and neat and send challenges out?  Berbers, maybe you should recheck your alliance affiliation.

I have no problem with a fair fight or a beatdown, I do have a problem with avoiding damage on the backs of my allies though :/

[Crownguard]

But we're.....not.  The time you said we did you apparently were incorrect, and we're in a fight now with the super-tier.  So I guess I am not following your logic here.  I mean besides vague misgivings and an admitted bias against us, are you offering anything actually substantive here?

 

I imagine that Sengoku and Umbrella probably talk about things at a higher/more frequent level than OWF conjecture.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Crownguard

[murtibing]

Some persons here are confusing two wars against TDO:

 

1) the 1st one was MK remnants and DBDC vs. TDO and some others (in 2013)

 

2) the 2nd one was SPATR vs. TDO (in 2014)

 

The SPATR vs. TDO war was declared because one nation from TDO spied on SPATR member. So in self-defence, like I said.

[rileyaddaff]

Words...

It looks like NPO already put a gag order on their members lol

[Branimir]

It looks like NPO already put a gag order on their members lol

 

What?

 

I try to keep up but sometimes you people go places where my common sense doesn't fallow

[Lord Hitchcock]

Was going to ignore this but hell I will bite this once. That statement is very rich coming from you. Jumping into every conflict just to try and get some relevancy. Do tell me where I am going wrong so I can be just like you.

 

Of course it's going to expand. Why else would Senguko reveal their treaty with Polar- something that's been a year in the works? This war will last a very long time for that relationship to simply sit idle.

 

Specifically, that side has too many mouths to feed. Polar wasn't signed to send tech up to umbrella or pacifica- they were signed to wreck mid teirs and tech supplies.

[Horatio Longworth]

 

you are trying way too hard

 

The the amount of irony in this statement cannot be expressed in words.

[berbers]

But we're.....not.  The time you said we did you apparently were incorrect, and we're in a fight now with the super-tier.  So I guess I am not following your logic here.  I mean besides vague misgivings and an admitted bias against us, are you offering anything actually substantive here?
 
I imagine that Sengoku and Umbrella probably talk about things at a higher/more frequent level than OWF conjecture.

One of the times I was wrong about, the others I maintain are valid.

Who is currently in a position to take more damage from this round of wars, Sengoku or Umbrella? I believe during this war the answer will not change. Maybe its just a fluke Umb takes significantly less damage than almost everyone in every war ever.

[saxasm]

It looks like NPO already put a gag order on their members lol

Huh?

As far as I'm aware, this topic is currently about berbers decrying Umbrella for... Some shifting reason which seems to boil down to just not liking them.

That he proclaims that he's doing this as a noble gesture to warn us doesn't really make the discussion about us. I think most of us try to stay out of this kind of fight on the OWF -- it never really leads anywhere useful. Edited March 19, 2016 by saxasm

[rileyaddaff]

 
What?
 
I try to keep up but sometimes you people go places where my common sense doesn't fallow

We all saw that they put a gag order on their members last DoW thread. I could care less if they did. Less of them coming in to stroke their own egos.

[Branimir]

We all saw that they put a gag order on their members last DoW thread. I could care less if they did. Less of them coming in to stroke their own egos.

 

Ohhhhh, I see.

 

You were trying to be witty, but it turns out it isn't your forte.

 

Oh, ok.