HeroofTime55 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 What political capital are they expending? Do you think it bothers them if the polars, nsos, or mi6s of this world think bad of them? They are our ally and went to WTF to see if a diplomatic solution could be reached before we decided on a military solution. They are also not the only allies we have. Not sure why it needs to be explained, but we fill a very distinct role for our allies. We wreck the upper tiers of their enemies. In return, we need assistance in lower tiers. It is a mutually beneficial relationship. Do you think that just because we started this war that somehow WTF gets to dictate the ending terms to us? I suppose that may sound fair in the land of rainbows and bunny rabbits, but it isn't the case in this world. Do you think we are going to continue watching Noob eat stagger after stagger when the rest of us have no wars left to fight and do nothing about it? I get that many of you hate us, but are you so blinded by bias its made you stupid as well? In other words: You're going to call in ODN to clean up your aggressive war on an alliance that has never done anything to anyone. ODN, please tell me more about how you are a "defensive" alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 More wars = less lengthy wars. I'd rather have numerous wars in a year that last for a few weeks or a month tops rather than have 1 war that lasts 4 months. That's your preference. It's neither objectively wrong or right, it's just your preference. WTFs preference is the other way around. DBDC certainly had plenty of warning of that fact before attacking. Why the surprise now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 It's almost like Bones is cooling on the SPATR AA for the past few weeks or so as a member when in reality he's DBDC (something about "once DBDC, always DBDC"). But I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me why I have it wrong and all those people constantly sending Bones free tech are legitimate nations. I don't buy any story that has CT going rogue once he joined WTF the first the time and was approved "in game". DBDC calling CT a rogue is laughable--particularly after all the service he did for them on variety of AAs. He's many things, some of them bad, some of them worth pursuing ZI or ZT over perhaps, but not a rogue. When you buy CT you get a bit of a loose canon. When you are totally outgunned, a loose canon is better than no cannon, particularly a powerful one with a grudge. As I suggest to someone at NG, of course you'd take him, but from the sidelines, it's easy to be a paragon of principle. CT was a rogue, but thats not why we're ticked at him. We're more ticked at his betrayal and leaking, although severely outdated, logs of private communications. There was a time when such behavior was EZI worthy back in NPO Hegemon days. We have no interest in EZI, but CT's own actions have made him a lot of enemies, and now that he is knocked into their range I expect them to come knocking on his door for his comeuppance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Its only a multi month war because WTF wants it to be. You can't complain WTF is at war presently because of DBDC when its WTF who has decided they would rather remain at war with DBDC. They have had avenues for peace and have rejected them, instead chosing to try to drag the few DBDC nations they can down. We've seen this done during Eq, during the Gre/IRON wars, and other conflicts so there are strategies to attack strong nations with weaker ones, but that doesn't mean we have to sit back and watch and do nothing. When did WTF become a neutral alliance? There is a reason all alliances who play politics have treaties. WTF has chosen not to have military intaglements and no allies. Having no allies to come to your aid if you are attacked is a consequence of not having allies. Its by their own choice, and judging from their behavior they seem fine with fighting this one out. They aren't the ones whining about this hit, its the standard anti DBDC crew being vocal about their disapproval of it. It's a multimonth war because DBDC has not given WTF an avenue of peace that provides WTF with a reasonable belief they will not be harmed ever again, that lies on DBDC's shoulders and quite frankly is something I doubt DBDC can provide based off their history. WTF has remained independent, everyone left IRON alone back when they lived up to the I in their name, WTF has chosen to remain at peace against all other alliances, and yet they are the bad guys here from your perspective for having the balls to actually damage DBDC? Do you even read what you post or...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) In other words: You're going to call in ODN to clean up your aggressive war on an alliance that has never done anything to anyone. ODN, please tell me more about how you are a "defensive" alliance. Just as WTF has never done anything to anyone, they also have never done anything for anyone. Why do you care about WTF so much? That's your preference. It's neither objectively wrong or right, it's just your preference. WTFs preference is the other way around. DBDC certainly had plenty of warning of that fact before attacking. Why the surprise now? WTF has made a choice, so has DBDC. We will see whose choice leads to the best results for their alliance. Edited March 11, 2015 by Caliph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 It's a multimonth war because DBDC has not given WTF an avenue of peace that provides WTF with a reasonable belief they will not be harmed ever again, that lies on DBDC's shoulders and quite frankly is something I doubt DBDC can provide based off their history. WTF has remained independent, everyone left IRON alone back when they lived up to the I in their name, WTF has chosen to remain at peace against all other alliances, and yet they are the bad guys here from your perspective for having the balls to actually damage DBDC? Do you even read what you post or...? Please reread my posts and explain where I said WTF were "bad guys" because they "dared to defend themselves against DBDC". I never made that argument, so please edit your response or post a new reply to the person who made such an argument, because it wasn't me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) WTF has made a choice, so has DBDC. We will see whose choice leads to the best results for their alliance. We'll certainly see. The last alliance that organized a full scale war against a large non political alliance eventually got their Karma. Please reread my posts and explain where I said WTF were "bad guys" because they "dared to defend themselves against DBDC". I never made that argument, so please edit your response or post a new reply to the person who made such an argument, because it wasn't me. Your argument is that WTF should be punished for continuing their conflict against DBDC, which anyone who isn't currently fellating DBDC can see as a gross twisting of reality. It only takes one party to start a war, it takes both parties to stop one. Go ahead and escalate against WTF, your inner circle will support you, and you'll ensure all those fractures the various log dumps that occurred just before peace was reached go even deeper. Edited March 11, 2015 by Mogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 We'll certainly see. The last alliance that organized a full scale war against a large non political alliance eventually got their Karma. Your argument is that WTF should be punished for continuing their conflict against DBDC, which anyone who isn't currently fellating DBDC can see as a gross twisting of reality. It only takes one party to start a war, it takes both parties to stop one. Go ahead and escalate against WTF, your inner circle will support you, and you'll ensure all those fractures the various log dumps that occurred just before peace was reached go even deeper. Can you quote me where I said that? My argument has been DBDC and WTF can do whatever they like, they are their own alliances and can make their own decisions. Their decisions have consequences and reactions, for example DBDC's actions have had the reaction of an anti DBDC group of people/alliances that simply do not care much for DBDCs ways of doing things. WTF's actions of not signing defensive military treaties has had the consequence where they are being tested militarily in a way they have never been tested before. WTF's decision to continue this war will have consequences too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gh0s7 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Your argument is that WTF should be punished for continuing their conflict against DBDC, which anyone who isn't currently fellating DBDC can see as a gross twisting of reality. The post is referencing CT, not WTF. Note it says 'he' not 'them' but CT's own actions have made him a lot of enemies, and now that he is knocked into their range I expect them to come knocking on his door for his comeuppance. Edited March 11, 2015 by Gh0s7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) And those consequences are going to be getting rolled for actually fighting back against DBDC, yes, we've established this. I am glad we agree on the reality that WTF is more than likely going to be rolled for defending themselves against raids, and that ODN feels they should protect DBDC from raids gone bad. The post is referencing CT, not WTF. Note it says 'he' not 'them' WTF's decision to continue this war will have consequences too. And basically any of Os's posts in this thread. It is clear that unless WTF submits to DBDC's standard 6 month NAP, that DBDC's allies will expand the war and beat down the evil WTF menace that has caused so much damage to our world. Edited March 11, 2015 by Mogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gh0s7 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I fail to see how we're saying WTF is going to get rolled again. I believe all I did was clarify a point that was reiterated by caliph and said by several people in WTF-DBDC discussions prior to. To claim this originates from us is relatively stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Oh CT. You're a month late bbe To: Stewie From: Christian Trojans Date: 3/11/2015 12:59:31 PMSubject: Peace Offer Message: A peace offer has been submitted by Christian Trojans for the following reason: valentines As soon as both nations accept peace the war will end. If either nation attacks one another this peace offer will be automatically canceled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krihelion Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Oh CT. You're a month late bbe To: Stewie From: Christian Trojans Date: 3/11/2015 12:59:31 PMSubject: Peace Offer Message: A peace offer has been submitted by Christian Trojans for the following reason: valentines As soon as both nations accept peace the war will end. If either nation attacks one another this peace offer will be automatically canceled. Quality material from a quality player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 And those consequences are going to be getting rolled for actually fighting back against DBDC, yes, we've established this. I am glad we agree on the reality that WTF is more than likely going to be rolled for defending themselves against raids, and that ODN feels they should protect DBDC from raids gone bad. And basically any of Os's posts in this thread. It is clear that unless WTF submits to DBDC's standard 6 month NAP, that DBDC's allies will expand the war and beat down the evil WTF menace that has caused so much damage to our world. Please reread what has been said here and begin debating on the points presented and not some imaginary arguments that not a single person in this thread have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just as WTF has never done anything to anyone, they also have never done anything for anyone. Why do you care about WTF so much? I don't care about WTF except for the context that it provides to the situation. The context is that WTF has never done anything to harm anyone. There is no requirement that they have to do things "for" people. They're allowed to play with their blocks in their own corner of the world, not bothering anyone, if that is what they so choose. My real interest is in the Citrus Circus that ODN is providing. Not a single statement by them has had any grounding in reality, and while it is uncertain if they believe their own words, they are hilariously misguided in their belief that the rest of the world won't see through their performance. I don't even care that DBDC hit WTF for no reason, except, again, insofar as it provides context for the situation and hilarity that is the ODN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I fail to see how we're saying WTF is going to get rolled again. I believe all I did was clarify a point that was reiterated by caliph and said by several people in WTF-DBDC discussions prior to. To claim this originates from us is relatively stupid. Please reread what has been said here and begin debating on the points presented and not some imaginary arguments that not a single person in this thread have made. Enlighten the rest of the world to these mysterious consequences you both have alluded to in your posts then, what reason does WTF have to do what DBDC asks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Its only a multi month war because WTF wants it to be. You can't complain WTF is at war presently because of DBDC when its WTF who has decided they would rather remain at war with DBDC. They have had avenues for peace and have rejected them, instead chosing to try to drag the few DBDC nations they can down. We've seen this done during Eq, during the Gre/IRON wars, and other conflicts so there are strategies to attack strong nations with weaker ones, but that doesn't mean we have to sit back and watch and do nothing. ... More wars = less lengthy wars. I'd rather have numerous wars in a year that last for a few weeks or a month tops rather than have 1 war that lasts 4 months. I'm under the impression that the aggressor in question wanted a proper war, well they have a proper war. Just because the aggressor has bitten off a bit more than they could chew and wanted an out as you inform us by offering WTF a way out. Doesn't mean both sides automatically achieved their objectives, DBDC might have but its obvious WTF hasn't. Sure no one has to sit and watch it, but it isn't like WTF has held them hostage for 6 months. Its a shame you are and have been in alliances that push the opposite and want long and extended wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Enlighten the rest of the world to these mysterious consequences you both have alluded to in your posts then, what reason does WTF have to do what DBDC asks? Again arguing against things I never said. Another swing and a miss. If we were playing baseball I'd be pitching a perfect game at this point. Edited March 11, 2015 by Caliph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 You've pretty clearly made threats against WTF. WTF has made a choice, so has DBDC. We will see whose choice leads to the best results for their alliance. Now, if you're gonna backtrack and say you didn't, go ahead, but I am willing to bet you personally will soon be attacking WTF unless WTF agrees to follow along with the role DBDC wishes them to play of happy victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 You've pretty clearly made threats against WTF. Now, if you're gonna backtrack and say you didn't, go ahead, but I am willing to bet you personally will soon be attacking WTF unless WTF agrees to follow along with the role DBDC wishes them to play of happy victim. You said, and I quote: Enlighten the rest of the world to these mysterious consequences you both have alluded to in your posts then, [b]what reason does WTF have to do what DBDC asks[/b]? Bolded mine. WTF doesn't have to do anything that DBDC says. I have made numerous posts detailing this, but you keep arguing as if I haven't said this numerous times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 You seem to be misunderstanding that I am hoping that you do exactly what you appear to be planning on doing, and "force" WTF to bend to DBDC's will. Let those who questioned the last war while on the winning side realize just what a wonderful world they were fighting for. DBDC engaged the war, it appears to be up to DBDC's lackeys to actually bring an end to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian trojans Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Oh CT. You're a month late bbe To: Stewie From: Christian Trojans Date: 3/11/2015 12:59:31 PMSubject: Peace Offer Message: A peace offer has been submitted by Christian Trojans for the following reason: valentines As soon as both nations accept peace the war will end. If either nation attacks one another this peace offer will be automatically canceled. I suggest you have a word with Caustic babes ;) haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieMercury Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 ODN is an entirely different story. They've made themselves the butt of the joke and have no one else to blame for that but their own people. The sheer pompous arrogance they displayed, the ludicrous oversteps, the hilarious bragging about 'facts' that most readers probably didnt even need 2 minutes research to debunk... yeah, they are a joke. And I'm waiting to see if they can't make it even funnier. Can you imagine the sweet somethings DBDC whispered into ODN's ear during pillow talk? Comon baby... I would never hurt you... Just the tip, okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 "I promise, I'll roll you last. <3" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Against NpO/ROK/STA I was dogpiled, during Dave and EQ I was dogpiled. It's hard to not be permanently on a lower attacking than defending when most of your wars you are fighting tech heavy, infra light nations... Fair enough, I can relate to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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