Heard any good rumors lately?

[Commander shepard]

When MQ members themselves refer to MQ as a group rouges then it certainly doesn't help the argument you're anything other than a group of rouges. 

[Dre4mwe4ver]

Bold and brave move. o/ TTE, good luck, guys


Also:

We live in a world where "alliances" aren't *alliances*, "blocs" aren't *blocs*, and "wars" aren't *wars*.

Best post in thread Edited September 22, 2013 by Dre4mwe4ver

[tamerlane]

When MQ members themselves refer to MQ as a group rouges then it certainly doesn't help the argument you're anything other than a group of rouges. 

 

 

Then why do you refer to them as MQ members?

[enderland]

Then why do you refer to them as MQ members?

 

Freudian slip.

[RevolutionaryRebel]

The term 'rogue' is, has been, and always will be subjective. There is no gold standard for what constitutes an Alliance either, but if you think that 50+ people on a solitary AA with a common identity, some semblance of unity that attacks (and defends) together CAN'T be an Alliance, you're spinning harder than the rest.

 

Anyone fighting MQ might as well just declare war on MQ and cut the crap. At least the Terran Empire made an effort. It's not as if there'd be any difference other than ridiculous legalese semantics. MQ doesn't have the burden of a treaty web to worry about.

Edited September 22, 2013 by RevolutionaryRebel

[Commander shepard]

Then why do you refer to them as MQ members?

 
"We had no idea people would freak out so much over a group of rogues."
 
I assume we means more than one.
 
 

Freudian slip.

This would go easier if you stopped trying to argue a point only the silliest in MQ try to argue.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Commander shepard

[Neo Uruk]

I wouldn't try and test that theory.
This.

So you're protecting the rogues?

[Llanowar Elf]

So you're protecting the rogues?

What are you on about?

 

 

What is MQ's government? Who does there FA work? Who is authorized to speak on there behalf? Who is in charge? What is there MO besides stupid perpetual conflict with NEUTRALS? What is there forums? Before you say MK forums, MK disbanded and is a protected AA. Doesn't count. We are fulfilling an obligation. Pure and simple. You don't like it? Tough cookies. Sorry CCC's view of this situation does not fall in line with yours. That's our prerogative.

[Neo Uruk]

Fulfilling an obligation? Since when are you obligated to tech raid?

[wes the wise]

 Oh come on, grow up. Your alliance (CCC) has declared war against MQ. CCC has close to 40 wars with MQ nations at this point. Whether you officially acknowledge it or not is a matter of pride apparently, but acting as if you haven't coordinated or declared war makes you look incredibly foolish.

We aren't denying any of that. Obviously, CCC is fighting the collection of rogues known to CN as MQ. We simply will not be posting a formal "declaration of war" on the owf. Edited September 23, 2013 by wes the wise

[Mr Vicarious]

After a certain size, a "collection of rogues" can be considered an alliance as it has its own autonomy and identity.

Everyone knows it's an ostentation of rogues, not a collection.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Mr Vicarious

[potato]

What are you on about?

 

 

What is MQ's government? Who does there FA work? Who is authorized to speak on there behalf? Who is in charge? What is there MO besides stupid perpetual conflict with NEUTRALS? What is there forums? Before you say MK forums, MK disbanded and is a protected AA. Doesn't count. We are fulfilling an obligation. Pure and simple. You don't like it? Tough cookies. Sorry CCC's view of this situation does not fall in line with yours. That's our prerogative.

 

Having FA ties means you're an alliance? Welp. MQ is thus only techraiding and I don't know why you're having your panties in a bunch about it.

Having a gov means you're an alliance? Welp. LSF (or whoever is that commie alliance) will be glad to know you don't consider them an alliance.
As for your other questions, why do you need to know where our forums are? Do you want to surrender already? Talk to tamerlane about that then. I am sure he'll be lenient.

 

Edited September 23, 2013 by potato

[Mr Vicarious]

Having FA ties means you're an alliance? Welp. MQ is thus only techraiding and I don't why you're having your panties in a bunch about it.

Having a gov means you're an alliance? Welp. LSF (or whoever is that commie alliance) will be glad to know you don't consider them an alliance.
As for your other questions, why do you need to know where our forums are? Do you want to surrender already? Talk to tamerlane about that then.

One might argue that an AA is whatever the world decides it is. Any debates about classification are usually decided on the battlefield or in the back channels and rarely through discussion on the OWF. At the moment, it seems that MQ's classification is still up in the air. We'll see if they have the political capital, military power, or longevity to have any say in that matter for themselves.

[Lurunin]

Are you guys still arguing if MQ is a true alliance?

do they have a charter? do they have forums? do they have a form of government? do they have treaties? are they protected by another alliance?

was thriller a true alliance or a rogue alliance? was ninjas a true alliance or a rogue alliance? there are many more examples but still

[Franz Ferdinand]

Are you guys still arguing if MQ is a true alliance?

do they have a charter? do they have forums? do they have a form of government? do they have treaties? are they protected by another alliance?

was thriller a true alliance or a rogue alliance? was ninjas a true alliance or a rogue alliance? there are many more examples but still

In a similar vein, you could argue that Prism Protection Force wasn't an alliance, yet as it had a active and strong presence, it would be considered to be one.

[flak attack]

Are you guys still arguing if MQ is a true alliance?

do they have a charter? do they have forums? do they have a form of government? do they have treaties? are they protected by another alliance?

was thriller a true alliance or a rogue alliance? was ninjas a true alliance or a rogue alliance? there are many more examples but still

 

Our charter is the word of Allarchon, passed down through the Supreme Ayatollah Tamlanei.  He is our government.

 

Treaties and protection do not make an alliance, unless you are suggesting that TDO itself is not an alliance, which is, of course, a ridiculous assertion.  Nor do forums, unless you don't consider NEW to be an alliance.  That, too, would be ridiculous.

[Lurunin]

In a similar vein, you could argue that Prism Protection Force wasn't an alliance, yet as it had a active and strong presence, it would be considered to be one.

True, but 1 man alliances are not alliances in my book. I hold to the notion of needing at least 5 to even be considered as an alliance as a single entity can not be allied to themself. Traditionally that stance has been held around the world, just with a different number attached. Very few believe 1man AAs are true alliances

As for the other comment, TDO had a signed Declaration of neutrality since their founding from multiple alliances on top of their charter. That is in a sense, a treaty. And to my knowledge, NEW's forums only stopped a few months ago, before that they had quite an active one Edited September 23, 2013 by Lurunin

[HM Solomon I]

Our charter is the word of Allarchon, passed down through the Supreme Ayatollah Tamlanei.  He is our government.

 

Treaties and protection do not make an alliance, unless you are suggesting that TDO itself is not an alliance, which is, of course, a ridiculous assertion.  Nor do forums, unless you don't consider NEW to be an alliance.  That, too, would be ridiculous.

 

I think that as long as a group (at least two nations) has a corresponding AA and some set process for making decisions that are binding on the whole group that is at least almost always followed, then that group qualifies as an alliance.  The commie alliances meet those criteria, as their entire memberships make decisions.  TDO meets those criteria obviously, but I don't think MQ does, since as far as I can tell they have no set process for making decisions, and even if they did, it would be very hard to follow it most of the time, given their lack of a space in which to do so.

 

Now, sovereignty is another matter.  A group can be an alliance under this definition, but not be considered sovereign by other alliances.  For example, an alliance comprising two nations would likely not be viewed as a sovereign entity by most other alliances (especially ones who raid).  However, this does not change the fact that they are an alliance, it just means they're not a sovereign one.

[Rayvon]

I think that as long as a group (at least two nations) has a corresponding AA and some set process for making decisions that are binding on the whole group that is at least almost always followed, then that group qualifies as an alliance.  The commie alliances meet those criteria, as their entire memberships make decisions.  TDO meets those criteria obviously, but I don't think MQ does, since as far as I can tell they have no set process for making decisions, and even if they did, it would be very hard to follow it most of the time, given their lack of a space in which to do so.

 

Now, sovereignty is another matter.  A group can be an alliance under this definition, but not be considered sovereign by other alliances.  For example, an alliance comprising two nations would likely not be viewed as a sovereign entity by most other alliances (especially ones who raid).  However, this does not change the fact that they are an alliance, it just means they're not a sovereign one.

 

Several times it's been said 'talk to Tamerlane' - I would think this would indicate some minute semblance of organization towards a control source and structure. 

Edited September 23, 2013 by Rayvon

[porksaber]

We aren't denying any of that. Obviously, CCC is fighting the collection of rogues known to CN as MQ. We simply will not be posting a formal "declaration of war" on the owf.

 

This isn't very Christian what you're doing.  You need to declare a Crusade for this sort of thing.

[HM Solomon I]

Several times it's been said 'talk to Tamerlane' - I would think this would indicate some minute semblance of organization towards a control source and structure. 

 

Maybe so, but there is no indication that all or even most nations on the MQ AA would follow an order from Tamerlane.  From the outside, it just isn't clear that there is some kind of decision making process, whereas for entities that everyone agrees are alliances this is clear.

[ChairmanHal]

Our charter is the word of Allarchon, passed down through the Supreme Ayatollah Tamlanei.  He is our government.

 

Treaties and protection do not make an alliance, unless you are suggesting that TDO itself is not an alliance, which is, of course, a ridiculous assertion.  Nor do forums, unless you don't consider NEW to be an alliance.  That, too, would be ridiculous.

 

In other words, a MaShUAYGA (make sh*t up as you go along) "alliance".  Yeah, serious alliance.  Srs bns.   :rolleyes:

 

Meanwhile back at the "disbanded" MK...still 74 nations on the AA, 67 of which are members.  That has to be some sort of record for the world's slowest dissolving former alliance.

 

How long do you and your friends propose to continue to support this fraud?

[flak attack]

I think that as long as a group (at least two nations) has a corresponding AA and some set process for making decisions that are binding on the whole group that is at least almost always followed, then that group qualifies as an alliance.  The commie alliances meet those criteria, as their entire memberships make decisions.  TDO meets those criteria obviously, but I don't think MQ does, since as far as I can tell they have no set process for making decisions, and even if they did, it would be very hard to follow it most of the time, given their lack of a space in which to do so.

 

Tamerlane's word is the word of Allarchon and as such is the highest of law.

[Rayvon]

Maybe so, but there is no indication that all or even most nations on the MQ AA would follow an order from Tamerlane.  From the outside, it just isn't clear that there is some kind of decision making process, whereas for entities that everyone agrees are alliances this is clear.

So their own attempts to declare a structure are thrown to the wind and claims that they have none are 'true' because ... "It just isn't clear" ? Edited September 23, 2013 by Rayvon

[HM Solomon I]

So their own attempts to declare a structure are thrown to the wind and claims that they have none are 'true' because ... "It just isn't clear" ?

 

A few members proclaiming things does not make it clear that they have a structure, considering that all we have is their word that they speak for whatever alliance they claim to represent.  There is nothing else to back that word up.