NATO the fearless warriors

[King Louis the II]

This thread = Epic fail.

[King Louis the II]

So, tech-raiding newbies is legit, but attacking the applicant AA of an alliance you are at Global War with is not?
 
Interesting.

But..but...but... The children......


ok, I knew that ODNers were backstabbers and lapdogs... But this bring the world "crybaby" to a new level..

[Beauty]

you misunderstood what I meant, I was refering to attacking applicant AAs, but we're only at this point because DH chose to behave like bullies the past year, had the dave war not happened, this would have probably just been another SF beatdown.

 

You are all very welcome. *Bow*

[Banned]

I honestly didn't think there was anything controversial about it and, as Caliph said, I thought it was common practice. The newbies on our AA (as indicated by their low AA seniority) are fair game, and I guess our guys figured everyone else's newbies are fair game. Your ODN applicants are sending tech to ODN nations, so are we supposed to just let you recruit and rebuild your tech just because you put them on a different AA?

As to the argument made about deletions, that is a fact of war whether you like it or not. I don't like seeing nations delete OOC, but enough of our young nations have deleted that I really don't see the actions of our nations as exceptional.

It's not a matter of putting them on a different AA, nor has it ever been for us.  We don't AA hop, we don't swap back and forth, and those nations that complete a tech deal are *typically* at a stage where they're moved over to our AA within a day after that.  Of course, I realize that's quite unverifiable as those that have completed that process are no longer on the applicant AA.

[Krashnaia]

It seems implied here that ODN does the former but not the latter, even if it was not your intention.  I'd like to clarify, that ODN has not in memorable history practiced either of these.

 

Yet here you are, burning for those that have turned the practice into one of their brand marks.

[Mogar]

Thankfully, I know you don't speak for your government, but are 1V-GATO peace mode tactics really necessary?  You want to be known like that?  You going to threaten them with perma-ZI too?

Until you actually take your licks, yes, I feel they're completely needed, you're attempting to fight this war on your terms, but it wont end until it's on our terms.

[Mogar]

It's really atrocious to see the amount of people giving their approval of attacking applicant AA's since their protectors are at war. It's well noted the alliances who are using AA hopping and those who are not. The fact that anyone's strategy is to attack their opponent's applicant AA's in order to cripple their recruitment is really just a downright ruthless and completely unnecessary strategy as those nations cannot contribute to the war effort in almost any way.

I thought that a majority of us came up with the conclusion that we need to bring more people in this game, not chase them away with poor conduct and savage like behavior. This is just a poor show from the alliances involved in these tactics.

RIA applicant and trade partners were attacked during the dave war, where was your moral outrage against your allies then? don't even sit here and try the faux moral outrage when you've been supporting people more than willing to do this type of shit for 3 years.

[Beauty]

Thankfully, I know you don't speak for your government, but are 1V-GATO peace mode tactics really necessary?  You want to be known like that?  You going to threaten them with perma-ZI too?

 

How terrible... Who would do such a thing?

[hobbies0310]

To all the people saying "Your allies did this and you supported them don't complain now." I thought the point of dethroning DH was to make this world a better more moral place because they were oh so evil?  I expected more from the honorable side that eQ is.

Edited March 15, 2013 by hobbies0310

[Beauty]

To all the people saying "Your allies did this and you supported them don't complain now." I thought the point of dethroning DH was to make this world a better more moral place because they were oh so evil?  :v:

Yes.

 

That was also the reason for the Karma War.

[hobbies0310]

Yes.

 

That was also the reason for the Karma War.

So you are accepting that you aren't trying to change anything this war like your side was chest thumping about? The better world we were promised was just a lie? I am disappoint. 

[Yankees Empire]

Yes.

 

That was also the reason for the Karma War.

 

No EZI, no viceroys, few tech reps, no disbandment terms. I'm pretty happy with how Karma turned out. And yourself?

[Commander shepard]

To all the people saying "Your allies did this and you supported them don't complain now." I thought the point of dethroning DH was to make this world a better more moral place because they were oh so evil?  I expected more from the honorable side that eQ is.

 

A better moral thing? Attacking applicants is a moral thing to do, warn them off from an alliance at war.

However complaining about it another story especially when you only complain when it is your applicants.

[SoADarthCyfe6]

RIA applicant and trade partners were attacked during the dave war, where was your moral outrage against your allies then? don't even sit here and try the faux moral outrage when you've been supporting people more than willing to do this type of shit for 3 years.

Please explain to me which one of our allies have attacked RIA's applicant AA during the Dave War?

[Mogar]

Please explain to me which one of our allies have attacked RIA's applicant AA during the Dave War?

MK did throughout the war, and attacked RIA trade partners(which literally are just ingame trades, not even tech deals).

[OverlordShinnra]

A better moral thing? Attacking applicants is a moral thing to do, warn them off from an alliance at war.

However complaining about it another story especially when you only complain when it is your applicants.

 

I think its already been explained that more then half of these guys haven't even formally applied to ODN. We aren't losing much here. Its just a matter of whether you want to force people out of the game or not before they even get a chance to play. I tend to like new players coming to the game. I'm guessing you don't? 

[Helbrecht]

No EZI, no viceroys, few tech reps, no disbandment terms. I'm pretty happy with how Karma turned out. And yourself?

Viceroys? Do you seriously believe that the Viceregal system went away because of the karma war? Really?

The tech reps levied in the Karma war were not what i would call "few". There have of course been incidents since the Karma war that tech reps have been levied. It is all upto the how each alliance wants to play it. Disbandment terms were always dependent on the fortitude and "sticktoitness" of the Alliance being offered disbandment as an alternative to everlasting war. The reason there is no disbandment or EZI practices now is simple, people simply do not attach as much value to their nations as they did at one time in the past. Big destructive wars have eroded the sense of "oh my lawd!!!!" out of nation damage and deletion. Instead oftentimes it seems to be more fun to keep coming back and seeing your pursuers tie themselves in knots to make you delete again.

Think of it as a very satisfying way to troll your opponents.

[OsRavan]

Instead of quoting a bazillion people and clogging up this message let me clarify a few things:

 

1)
ODN has never tech raided, and ODN has never attacked an applicant AA.
Not in our entire history as far as i'm aware (certainly not since ive
been around).  We view applicants as separate from the main alliance,
and dislike the idea of attacking them for the same reasons people
usually complain about tech raiding.

 

2) ODN is ODN
not MK or anyone else.  We have plenty of actions we have done i'm sure
you can spin to stir up hatred ::smirks::.  But kindly don't confuse
what we've done with what others have done.  If you want to start
playing that game, i'll start pulling up random BS your allies or your
coalition partners have done and stick it on your alliance.  I can think
of quite a bit, especially for the SF allies.  Is CSN (I saw someone
from csn posting in here) responsible for anything GOD has said or done?

 

ODN hate is fine.  After all we've fought against you in several wars, you
have every right to be bitter.  But hate us (dislike whatever) for
things we actually have done not something like tech raiding of all
absurd things (especially absurd cause I can find alliances on YOUR side
who tech raid).

 

3) I would not say ODN is 'mad' at
NATO.  You will do what you want.  A little disappointed that people
are justifying hitting applicant AAs after all the previous outrage ive
seen from the coalition fighting us about hitting applicant AAs they are
doing it?  Or that this doesnt fit with the propaganda they were
telling us about a new honorable sort of war?  Sure.    That doesnt fit
with what *we* think of as honorable behavior (and we have always lived
by our code, not been hypocrites). 

 

But hey,
we don't get to dictate to anyone but ODN.  ODN fully recognizes that just
cause we think something somewhat questionable doesnt mean others have
to agree.   So if you somehow find that honorable you can go on hitting
the newbs, heh some of our members like buc may be annoyed I admit.  But
on an official level we will accept it as it is.  Which brings me
to....

 

4) For the people telling us 'just hit their
applicants back.'  No thank you.  Two wrongs dont make a right.  NATO
will fight this war as they so choose, ODN will fight as we so choose. 
We do not approve of hitting applicants, so how hypocritical of us would
it be to go "well they did it first!"

 

((edit to add: And I have no idea why it formatted that so oddly.  Sorry!))

Edited March 15, 2013 by OsRavan

[shahenshah]

Applicants get hit in all the global wars...nothing new...but this post is understandable if one hasnt faced tough odds for the first time in 6 or 7 years or is it 8 years? cant remember  :wacko:

[Commander shepard]

2) Says something reasonable about not generalizing everyone on the opposition 

 

3) Proceeds to generalize EQ

 

Needless to say ODN has some responsibility for actions that their allies did, they had the power to influence their allies but chose not to.

[Sir Humphrey]

Instead of quoting a bazillion people and clogging up this message let me clarify a few things:
 
1)
ODN has never tech raided, and ODN has never attacked an applicant AA.
Not in our entire history as far as i'm aware (certainly not since ive
been around).  We view applicants as separate from the main alliance,
and dislike the idea of attacking them for the same reasons people
usually complain about tech raiding.
 

If ODN considers applicants separate from the main alliance, then it is incumbent on ODN to wait until its applicants are on its main AA before doing tech deals with them. The assumption from looking at the ODN Applicant aid screen was that they are fair game. It would also help if nations on the ODN Applicant AA did not declare wars and thus blur the distinction even further.

Edit: NATO has also never (to my knowledge) been outraged about attacks on applicant AAs during global wars. We do not use an applicant AA, and thus assumed that other alliances' newbs are fair game as our newbs are. Edited March 15, 2013 by Sir Humphrey

[Dochartaigh]

Needless to say ODN has some responsibility for actions that their allies did, they had the power to influence their allies but chose not to.

 

Or at least disassociate themselves with said allies...

[Grand Lord of Funk]

How can it be a result of AA hopping when the practice of hitting applicant aa's occured before this war an aa hopping?

 

I was alluding to the fact it is now more "acceptable" due to the epic game of AA hopscotch played by Umbrella and their minions. 

 

And yes ODN is tainted by the people and their actions in the same fox hole to their left and right. 

Edited March 15, 2013 by Grand Lord of Funk

[bucovina]

I think its already been explained that more then half of these guys haven't even formally applied to ODN. We aren't losing much here. Its just a matter of whether you want to force people out of the game or not before they even get a chance to play. I tend to like new players coming to the game. I'm guessing you don't? 

 

This was the point of the thread. You can attack our applicants all you want. I fought with manny honorable and less honorable members from EQ.

I will ask a moderator to close this post, as we will don't get anywhere.

[OsRavan]

Applicants get hit in all the global wars...nothing new...but this post is understandable if one hasnt faced tough odds for the first time in 6 or 7 years or is it 8 years? cant remember  :wacko:

 

You aren't that familiar with our history I see. Well, thats alright.