LoSSes to be had

[Tiggah]

DH approach to treaties = Do what you want.
This nonsense = Do what you want while trying to make it seem like you're obligated to do so.

This makes you guys look weak. Like you're too scared to just come out and say you hate GOONS, so you're going to roll them. Even though the tiny figleaf of the TIO treaty is enough to hide you, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there isn't much behind it.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Tiggah

[chedab]

You say GATO wasn't attacked before this LoSS? http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=Global%20Alliance%20And%20Treaty%20Organization&anyallexact=exact TTK, NADC? I'm fairly sure that's an attack on GATO.

 

why hasnt gato even attempted to activate this treaty in any form then?

and where is the official Dow threads?

 

and personally i dont like goons. but this is just from my point of view so...

[hobbies0310]

Lol, the official DoW threads you say? "Equilibrium" has abandoned posting DoWs when they hit people, see the VE-NPO thread. Good try though.

[Geerland]

why hasnt gato even attempted to activate this treaty in any form then?
and where is the official Dow threads?
 
and personally i dont like goons. but this is just from my point of view so...

As you have stated in the DoW, an attack on one is an attack on all. In their view that does not mean that a DoW is unnecessary. Look at TLR.

GATO has not activated their treaty as they are too damn nice to put you in such a awkward position, although you'd probably try and e-lawyer your way outta it.

[Rush Sykes]

None of our allies have been attacked Seeing as five alliance went to war with Umbrella, all the counters have been on AI, this has been to limit the number of allies that can come in, via this exact same arguement. Normally some people would hit each of the alliances at war with their ally, DH however didn't want other alliances coming in and beating them down. GATO went into peace mode then went in aggressively, if someone had attacked them, then we would have come to defend them, if any of our allies had been attacked we would have defended them, like we always have. War is a part of life, this isn't about being a meat shield, or picking one ally over another. This is just the way Bob, no need for petty personal attacks on LoSS, just accept it and move on

 

Did you really just say 1) Nobody is attacking TIO despite you claiming defense of them... then did you say GATO went in aggressively on an MDP? Bro, you made your choice, and that is fine, but you cannot have it both ways. It is almost as stupid to characterize GATOs entry as aggressive (when 22 alliances DID attack their allies).. then claiming in your DoW that you are defending TIO then saying nobody has attacked TIO. Lots of talk has been about bridge burning, and I have no desire to see any bridges burnt, but your words...they make no sense.

[shahenshah]

Did you really just say 1) Nobody is attacking TIO despite you claiming defense of them... then did yspracterize GATOs entry as aggressive (when 22 alliances DID attack their allies).. then claiming in your DoW that you are defending TIO then saying nobody has attacked TIO. Lots of talk has been about bridge burning, and I have no desire to see any bridges burnt, but your words...they make no sense.

They attacked because your allies supported 'aggression' of their ally in the first place, the Gods too have spoken. 

Edited January 27, 2013 by shahenshah

[hobbies0310]

They attacked because your allies supported 'aggression' of their ally in the first place, now proven by the almighty himself. 

Are you really trying to spin this war in saying Equilibrium wasn't the aggressors? 

[Rush Sykes]

They attacked because your allies supported 'aggression' of their ally in the first place, now proven by the almighty himself. 

 

Yes, because the almighty himself has never inappropriately judged a situation. Neither of us are THAT naive.

[shahenshah]

Are you really trying to spin this war in saying Equilibrium wasn't the aggressors? 

There is nothing to spin here, you have your point of view and I have mine. I dont call yours spin, its just one those points where we simply agree to disagree.

 

 

Yes, because the almighty himself has never inappropriately judged a situation. Neither of us are THAT naive.

 

Rush, not sure what you imply.

Edited January 27, 2013 by shahenshah

[Caliph]

They attacked because your allies supported 'aggression' of their ally in the first place, now proven by the almighty himself. 

 

There was no agression against AI, in fact, quite the opposite, the agressors in this conflict are and always will be the 5 alliances who declared war on Umbrella, thus sparking this conflict.  They had reason to, sure, but that doesn't make them the defender.  The act of initiating hostilities between alliances remains on the 5, not on Umbrella.

 

EQ is the agressor in this war.  That cannot be debated.

 

Having a reason, even a good reason, to go to war does not make you the defender, it just gives you a reason to declare an offensive war.

 

Its ok to be the agressor.  You can't claim to be the defender in this conflict since it was started by your alliance's and allies declaration of war on Umbrella.

[Caliph]

There is nothing to spin here, you have your point of view and I have mine. I dont call yours spin, its just one those points where we simply agree to disagree.

 

Rush, not sure what you imply.

 

Play dumb all you want, we both know of the dark times.  However talking of them is deemed  blasphemy and the most high has been know to smite all those who speak of such things.

[Tiggah]

They attacked because your allies supported 'aggression' of their ally in the first place, now proven by the almighty himself. 

By this definition, so did loads of alliances. How do you guys plan to negotiate peace? Will it be all your side and all ours in a room? I'd seriously like to know because if so, I don't want to make the mistake of running for government and having to be a part of that clusterfuck..

[shahenshah]

There was no agression against AI, in fact, quite the opposite, the agressors in this conflict are and always will be the 5 alliances who declared war on Umbrella, thus sparking this conflict.  They had reason to, sure, but that doesn't make them the defender.  The act of initiating hostilities between alliances remains on the 5, not on Umbrella.

 

EQ is the agressor in this war.  That cannot be debated.

 

Having a reason, even a good reason, to go to war does not make you the defender, it just gives you a reason to declare an offensive war.

 

Its ok to be the agressor.  You can't claim to be the defender in this conflict since it was started by your alliance's and allies declaration of war on Umbrella.

Slot filling has always been considered a hostile move, what is debatable or not is not for you or me to decide and Caliph, its okay to be an aggressor.  

 

Edit: Tiggah, It is my own point of view. Well, since you'll be running for govt, the tip I can give you is generally a new channel is formed and govt members of the relevant fronts/side w/e are invited, negotiations happen, offers and counter offers are made until there is an agreement. I suppose then in ODN you pass it on to GA to approve and after that you put your sig on it along with the rest and post it here. Suddenly, all hostilities disappear and  everyone hail each other for a good fight. Afterwords, sometimes  the nub diplomats start spamming each other's embassies. 

Edited January 27, 2013 by shahenshah

[Dre4mwe4ver]

GATO went into peace mode then went in aggressively, if someone had attacked them, then we would have come to defend them, if any of our allies had been attacked we would have defended them, like we always have.

Our MDAP allies in ODN and were attacked aggressively, and pursuant to our existing treaties, we did, indeed, attack, but we did not go in aggressively. If we find ourselves under attack, and should we request assistance, there is no doubt regarding the honor and integrity of LoSS to defend her allies, but that is not in question, as I will explain below for those not following the events directly pertaining to GATO (which, are pretty dull, so I don't blame you).

You say GATO wasn't attacked before this LoSS? http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance,Receiving_Alliance&search=Global Alliance And Treaty Organization&anyallexact=exact TTK, NADC? I'm fairly sure that's an attack on GATO.

On the contrary, the issues that you have raised were all resolved cordially and peacefully prior to GATO's entry into the current conflict. The assertion that GATO was not DoW'd before this is correct, and as a matter of fact, we have not yet, as of this time of this post, been DoW'd. Furthermore, if clarification is necessary, we have not sought to activate our MDoAP with LoSS. Not the MD, as we have not been attacked, and most certainly not oA.

We wish our allies nothing but the best in war. o7

[shahenshah]

Play dumb all you want, we both know of the dark times.  However talking of them is deemed  blasphemy and the most high has been know to smite all those who speak of such things.

'Dark times' is a relative term. If we cut out all the trivial matters, everyone wanted a good fight and everyone's gotten one. I respect some of the members of Umbrella who came out initially and welcomed this fight. Now we just have everyone arguing over trivial matters, same old, same old. Tho, I must admit I too indulge in them but that's just for the entertainment after me and my sparring partners are done for the day. 

Edited January 27, 2013 by shahenshah

[Tiggah]

Slot filling has always been considered a hostile move, what is debatable or not is not for you or me to decide and Caliph, its okay to be an aggressor.  
 
Edit: Tiggah, It is my own point of view. Well, since you'll be running for govt, the tip I can give you is generally a new channel is formed and govt members of the relevant fronts/side w/e are invited, negotiations happen, offers and counter offers are made until there is an agreement. I suppose then in ODN you pass it on to GA to approve and after that you put your sig on it along with the rest and post it here. Suddenly, all hostilities disappear and  everyone hail each other for a good fight. Afterwords, sometimes  the nub diplomats start spamming each other's embassies. 

But we're not war with any relevant parties. Umbrella is hogging you all...

[EgoFreaky]

Hope so, last two wars LoSs were a real burden on resources since they were so incapable.

 

Funny, having fought Loss (who's smaller than GATO) during grudge when we where at peak strength and fighting GATO (who's bigger than loss) during Dave when we had barely time to recover properly.. I would just want to say you really shouldn't throw stones. On top of that LoSS was hung out to dry having to deal with us on their own because no one wanted to put FOK on the wrong side. While GATO was doing what? Preempting an uninvolved alliance with 5 other alliances at your side. 

 

And then there's really people that are saying 'Loss I just hope you aren't meat shielding to distract NG'.

 

I really don't have much problems with any action GATO has done over the past years, you rolled with your bloc and you were fun to fight, but really, GATO has no right to claim the morale high ground nor the right to call LoSS incapable. 

 

What suprises me the most is the people really being suprised LoSS is using the non chaining clause to not be on GATO's side though. 2 of GATO's direct allies declared in the first wave, yet GATO chose to go with the rest of the bloc, which is fine, I can understand that a bloc comes first, but it can't be a complete surprise that sooner or later other allies are gonna say 'Well good for you that C&G is your priority but don't expect us to make it ours as well'.

 

 Oh well, have fun LoSS and welcome to Equilibrium. 

[shahenshah]

But we're not war with any relevant parties. Umbrella is hogging you all...

Everyone is relevant, that even includes you. We respect the capabilities of Umbrella. Respecting your opposition is a good trait to develop for someone planning to run for the office.

Edited January 27, 2013 by shahenshah

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Meant Equilibrium obv. Same alliances regardless. 

 

Hmm let's see. In the order I see them listed on the wiki and just catching the obvious ones off the top of my head, GOD, RIA, RnR, Sparta, Fark, TTK, CRAP, CCC, Ragnarok, the Grämlins... yeah that was the Q membership list from Karma War wasnt it?

 

Keep talking out your tailfeathers.

 

 

I seriously don't know what you are talking about. So, that's probably the reason I didn't mind.

 

Ignorance is a horrible excuse. It's like you arent even trying anymore.
 

[Caliph]

Slot filling has always been considered a hostile move, what is debatable or not is not for you or me to decide and Caliph, its okay to be an aggressor.  

 

Edit: Tiggah, It is my own point of view. Well, since you'll be running for govt, the tip I can give you is generally a new channel is formed and govt members of the relevant fronts/side w/e are invited, negotiations happen, offers and counter offers are made until there is an agreement. I suppose then in ODN you pass it on to GA to approve and after that you put your sig on it along with the rest and post it here. Suddenly, all hostilities disappear and  everyone hail each other for a good fight. Afterwords, sometimes  the nub diplomats start spamming each other's embassies. 

 

Hostile move, sure, but in no way was Umbrella attacking AI.  The move of Umbrella filling AI slots gives you a [i]cassus belli[/i], a reason for war.  You and your friends decided that was a good reason to go to war with Umbrella and began to initiate hostilities against Umbrella and attacked them, thus being the [b]agressor[/b] and causing Umbrella to be the [b]defender[/b] in this conflict.

 

Its ok to be the agressor, but to claim you are a defending party is utter bollocks, mate. 

 

 

'Dark
times' is a relative term. If we cut out all the trivial matters,
everyone wanted a good fight and everyone's gotten one. I respect some
of the members of Umbrella who came out initially and welcomed this
fight. Now we just have everyone arguing over trivial matters, same old,
same old. Tho, I must admit I too indulge in them but that's just for
the entertainment after me and my sparring partners are done for the
day. 

 

Oh, we're fighting the good fight.  Just don't expect us to go quietly :)

 

Or expect us to sit back while you try to spin this using outright lies :D

 

Call it like it is, mate.

 

See you on the battlefield :)
 

[Caliph]

Hmm let's see. In the order I see them listed on the wiki and just catching the obvious ones off the top of my head, GOD, RIA, RnR, Sparta, Fark, TTK, CRAP, CCC, Ragnarok, the Grämlins... yeah that was the Q membership list from Karma War wasnt it?

 

Keep talking out your tailfeathers.

 

 

 

Ignorance is a horrible excuse. It's like you arent even trying anymore.
 

Being the studnet of history that you are, you will also note that Ragnarok, Sparta, and FARK were all in Contiuum prior to the Karma war, right?  Even Gramlins was there, though they had left months earlier, not on the even of war as Rok, Sparta, and FARK. 

[OverlordShinnra]

I'd like to apologize to LoSS about my crying. I was not in my right mind last night. I will now take my beating. o/ LoSS

[shahenshah]

Hostile move, sure, but in no way was Umbrella attacking AI.  The move of Umbrella filling AI slots gives you a cassus belli, a reason for war.  You and your friends decided that was a good reason to go to war with Umbrella and began to initiate hostilities against Umbrella and attacked them, thus being the agressor and causing Umbrella to be the defender in this conflict.

 

Its ok to be the agressor, but to claim you are a defending party is utter bollocks, mate. 

 

 

 

Oh, we're fighting the good fight.  Just don't expect us to go quietly :)

 

Or expect us to sit back while you try to spin this using outright lies :D

 

Call it like it is, mate.

 

See you on the battlefield :)
 

Well, I consider initiation of hostile move, that was well coordinated and included a member of govt to be an act of aggression.  You are most welcome to continue to disagree. I see your point of view and respect that, but I do not see it has enough merits for me to agree with it. 

 

Oh I never expected you to go quietly and I dont expect you to go, we'll all be here when everything is said and done :). 

 

In my point of view, you're the one spinning outright lies mate. :P

 

Calling it like it is, its a good fun fight, let us nuke each other to hell, down with the 1% and all that :D

Edited January 27, 2013 by shahenshah

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Being the studnet of history that you are, you will also note that Ragnarok, Sparta, and FARK were all in Contiuum prior to the Karma war, right?  Even Gramlins was there, though they had left months earlier, not on the even of war as Rok, Sparta, and FARK. 

 

I didnt study the history here I lived through it. That's the 4 alliances we managed to peel off of Q in order to make Karma winnable, yes. And your point?

 

Why do people (not just you I see this a lot) keep trying to reframe every new conflict as a Karma war replay anyway? That's just dumb to start with. The fact that it's YOU doing it in this case, and you are living in such a glass house, just makes it worse.

 

This is not 2008. Can you at least try to come up with something fresh?

 

 

[salsabeast1]

You say GATO wasn't attacked before this LoSS? http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=Global%20Alliance%20And%20Treaty%20Organization&anyallexact=exact TTK, NADC? I'm fairly sure that's an attack on GATO.

People jumped the gun on the possibility of the GATO-counter. We held great relations to GATO and immediately went to them, apologizing and offering reps. Being the lone class act in CnG they are there was no issues at all.