KenoCore Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Teddyyo' timestamp='1357961988' post='3075213'] Newsflash, when you plan violate a treaty and guarantee an ally to unwarranted death, it's generally thought well of to consult said ally about the idea of that first. [/quote] havent seen you since SC days . and ehh just saying both sides $%&@ed each other over but at least NEW knows it and is willing to stick with it. you dont see them backing down knowing 6 alliances all bigger are ready to pounce add in the fact they are still ready to burn knowining that and their former allies are watching laughing. Edited January 12, 2013 by KenoCore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) [quote name='trimm' timestamp='1357962188' post='3075220'] Given NEW's efforts to drag BFF into a global war, I'd say that they didn't owe NEW much of anything in the way of a send off, much less the military guarantee they ended up with. MADP's, even as stupid as they are, are no more a suicide pact than any other treaty. My obligations to another alliance end at the point where that alliance is acting directly against my best interests. Politics on this planet Bob are not about bromance, no matter how much some people around here act like it. [/quote] You make a lot of assumptions. I really do wish the leader of NEW appeared on here so he could clear a few of the misconceptions. All of the NEW members I spoke to said that they would of preferred an outright cancellation, even if not agreed with it. Oppose to the whole backroom damage limitation deals façade... I agree with your point about MADP's though. Both parties should share the blame for that. Edited January 12, 2013 by Robster83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddyyo Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357962301' post='3075222'] havent seen you since sc . and ehh just saying both sides $%&@ed each other over but at least NEW knows it and is willing to stick with it. you dont see them backing down knowing 6 alliances all bigger are ready to pounce [/quote] Hehe, good times. Wish they were still here. Well I wasn't too happy to be awoken from my admin-sleep by Chax asking for help. Talking SC, remember perms, basically MADPs? If your perm partner declares on all six other players without talking to you about it, wouldn't you be a bit pissed? I think it's a good comparison. Edited January 12, 2013 by Teddyyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357962350' post='3075223'] You make a lot of assumptions. I really do wish the leader of NEW appeared on here so he could clear a few of the misconceptions. All of the NEW members I spoke to said that they would of preferred an outright cancellation, even if not agreed with it. Oppose to the whole backroom damage limitation deals façade... I agree with your point about MADP's though. Both parties should share the blame for that. [/quote] I don't think anyone cares much about NEW's feelings on the matter. As to whatever went on in backrooms, I stand by my assertion that the first duty of an alliance's gov is to protect the interests of their alliance. And the fact remains that BFF was at the least attempting, if awkwardly, to honor the spirit of their treaty in the process of doing so. That is not something NEW could assert in these circumstances. BFF didn't owe NEW anything, and had I been them I would have dropped NEW like a bad habit. That they didn't speaks better of BFF than you seem to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoCore Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='Teddyyo' timestamp='1357962730' post='3075224'] Hehe. Well I wasn't too happy to be awoken from my admin-sleep by Chax asking for help. Talking SC, remember perms, basically MADPs? If your perm partner declares on all six other players without talking to you about it, wouldn't you be a bit pissed? I think it's a good comparison. [/quote] true but you and well if you remember me confederate/dos were good enough that if one of us did that we would be fine and still win :3. but seriously yes that makes sense but it just is frusturating that BFF can bash NEW but then do what it is doimg and has said behind NEWS back. what if you did that in SC and i said i would help but then private the otyer 6 and say ill fight until 100 marines are dead then peace out. that would piss you off lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) [quote name='trimm' timestamp='1357962878' post='3075225'] I don't think anyone cares much about NEW's feelings on the matter. As to whatever went on in backrooms, I stand by my assertion that the first duty of an alliance's gov is to protect the interests of their alliance. And the fact remains that BFF was at the least attempting, if awkwardly, to honor the spirit of their treaty in the process of doing so. That is not something NEW could assert in these circumstances. BFF didn't owe NEW anything, and had I been them I would have dropped NEW like a bad habit. That they didn't speaks better of BFF than you seem to think. [/quote] You would be surprised how some of the BFF's members feel themselves actually. Whilst I see what you are saying, I would prefer to part on good terms with an alliance that I shared such a close bond with for so many years. And once again I feel like we are discussing the semantics, but I don't see how 2 rounds of non nuclear war serves any purpose other than for BFF being able to claim they honoured their treaty obligations. And is such 'support' really support? As you say it's an incredibly awkward way to go about things. Edited January 12, 2013 by Robster83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddyyo Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357962998' post='3075226'] true but you and well if you remember me confederate/dos were good enough that if one of us did that we would be fine and still win :3. but seriously yes that makes sense but it just is frusturating that BFF can bash NEW but then do what it is doimg and has said behind NEWS back. what if you did that in SC and i said i would help but then private the otyer 6 and say ill fight until 100 marines are dead then peace out. that would piss you off lol [/quote] No kidding? Damn am I glad to see some familiar faces from back then Hehe, we probably could take a lobby of DoW 1939 NV2 ourselves, true. I'd take blue or yellow. If it makes you feel better, I posted to keep the treaty with NEW when I heard of this. I was just surprised that we were catching a lot of flak for taking a more middle ground. I think I can post this from our forums just because I blotted out everything but my post. [img]http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Teddyyo/55825DFD-1D92-4F3C-95B4-456736E67583-4710-0000047C67D3514B.jpg[/img] To be fair, 2v6 we'd stand a chance and it's just a few hours of game time, whereas here this is months of nation building and we won't stand equal ground with our enemies afterwards. Edited January 12, 2013 by Teddyyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357961574' post='3075206'] i can tell you right here right niw if GOON Kaskus war never happened we would MDAP Goons would you believe me just because i posted it on OWF? OWF is a lie just like the cake the only words that can be trusted are your own. back room deals are more trustworthy then public statements made here. [/quote] They wouldn't believe you because we never would sign with you under any circumstances in the first place. That's a horrible analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357963080' post='3075227'] You would be surprised how some of the BFF's members feel themselves actually. Whilst I see what you are saying, I would prefer to part on good terms with an alliance that I shared such a close bond with for so many years. And once again I feel like we are discussing the semantics, but I don't see how 2 rounds of non nuclear war serves any purpose other than for BFF being able to claim they honoured their treaty obligations. And is such 'support' really support? As you say it's an incredibly awkward way to go about things. [/quote] It is absolutely a political act for them to arrange a limited war in order to cover their treaty obligations. Hense my terming the situation to be awkward. I simply am not attaching the negative connotation to that political act that you are. It should also be noted that whatever maneuvering BFF was engaged in, they have clearly stated that they will fight to the knife for NEW during the drawdown period of their treaty, even if it involves activating the aggression clause in the that treaty. That's a pretty solid offer of support, one that NEW in no way deserved or earned. I suppose the point here is that I see no point in calling BFF names because they engaged in some political moves to try and limit the damage they were going to take due to the sheer stupidity of their treaty partner. And they have offered to support that idiotic treaty partner in a way that is far more than is warranted by the situation. So there's no reason for name calling on that account either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoCore Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='Teddyyo' timestamp='1357963144' post='3075229'] No kidding? Damn am I glad to see some familiar faces from back then Hehe, we probably could take a l [/quote] yeah its always nice but i think were suppose to be arguing right now so just to keep up the good show. RAWR RAWR RAWR youre a horrible person blah blah blah NEW blah blah BFF damn but seriously i have nothing mean to say to you D: i cant argue with an old friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddyyo Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357963593' post='3075234'] yeah its always nice but i think were suppose to be arguing right now so just to keep up the good show. RAWR RAWR RAWR youre a horrible person blah blah blah NEW blah blah BFF damn but seriously i have nothing mean to say to you D: i cant argue with an old friend. [/quote] Lol, I updated my post to be a bit more relevant. Take a look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='trimm' timestamp='1357963566' post='3075233'] It is absolutely a political act for them to arrange a limited war in order to cover their treaty obligations. Hense my terming the situation to be awkward. I simply am not attaching the negative connotation to that political act that you are. It should also be noted that whatever maneuvering BFF was engaged in, they have clearly stated that they will fight to the knife for NEW during the drawdown period of their treaty, even if it involves activating the aggression clause in the that treaty. That's a pretty solid offer of support, one that NEW in no way deserved or earned. I suppose the point here is that I see no point in calling BFF names because they engaged in some political moves to try and limit the damage they were going to take due to the sheer stupidity of their treaty partner. And they have offered to support that idiotic treaty partner in a way that is far more than is warranted by the situation. So there's no reason for name calling on that account either. [/quote] I think that's a fair analysis... but I obviously believe that an act like this does deserve the negative connotations that were cited. All a matter of perspective I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoCore Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='Teddyyo' timestamp='1357963693' post='3075235'] Lol, I updated my post to be a bit more relevant. Take a look [/quote] i saw and you i believe and appreciate but your alliance may say its taking the middle ground its not its taking the high ground by pushing someone ekse lower. that being NEW. I will admit as can everyone here all this arguing accomplishes nothing whats done is done. what hapens now is set in stone and were about to watch the world go up in fire. but its good to see that both sides have people that have a heart and for that Teddyyo you have my respect and i see hope in BFF. were all at the wrong and we all $%&@ed up now we reap what we sow. but i can promise this alot of pixels will be burnt and it will be alot of fun <3 im off to go about real life and remember its all in good fun except Brehon he abandoned our kid that sleezy !@#$%^&. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddyyo Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357964107' post='3075241'] i saw and you i believe and appreciate but your alliance may say its taking the middle ground its not its taking the high ground by pushing someone ekse lower. that being NEW. I will admit as can everyone here all this arguing accomplishes nothing whats done is done. what hapens now is set in stone and were about to watch the world go up in fire. but its good to see that both sides have people that have a heart and for that Teddyyo you have my respect and i see hope in BFF. were all at the wrong and we all $%&@ed up now we reap what we sow. but i can promise this alot of pixels will be burnt and it will be alot of fun <3 im off to go about real life and remember its all in good fun except Brehon he abandoned our kid that sleezy !@#$%^&. [/quote] <3 Take care, bud. It's always good to see an old friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357964107' post='3075241'] i saw and you i believe and appreciate but your alliance may say its taking the middle ground its not its taking the high ground by pushing someone ekse lower. that being NEW. I will admit as can everyone here all this arguing accomplishes nothing whats done is done. what hapens now is set in stone and were about to watch the world go up in fire. but its good to see that both sides have people that have a heart and for that Teddyyo you have my respect and i see hope in BFF. were all at the wrong and we all $%&@ed up now we reap what we sow. but i can promise this alot of pixels will be burnt and it will be alot of fun <3 im off to go about real life and remember its all in good fun except Brehon he abandoned our kid that sleezy !@#$%^&. [/quote] And you are taking high ground by pretty much ensuring your only ally burns with you? The root of all this still lies with kaskus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoCore Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1357964441' post='3075246'] And you are taking high ground by pretty much ensuring your only ally burns with you? The root of all this still lies with kaskus. [/quote] We here in Kaskus ans NEW know what we are doing. like i said before and ill say it again before i go. we will never lose because we have no ability too. in Burning we shall be reborn in flames of victory and fun. do not fear the darkness embrace it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongo Jack IV Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Goodness at what a mess. Non Grata, I laugh at the pitiful hypocritical existence you live. Like how you abandoned NEW during the NEW-DF war. Edited January 12, 2013 by Kongo Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Kongo Jack' timestamp='1357968994' post='3075289'] Goodness at what a mess. Non Grata, I laugh at the pitiful hypocritical existence you live. Like how you abandoned NEW during the NEW-DF war. [/quote] [img]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31105878.jpg[/img] [img]http://nolannabiblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/creepy-willy-wonka-meme-generator-oh-really-now-tell-me-more-38d49d.jpg[/img] We didn't "abandon" NEW. We were between a rock and a hard place. We promised to defend them from bandwagoners and we couldn't engage without ripping apart our side of the treaty web at the time we were part of the buildup for PB-Orders. (iFOK had a MDoAP with FARK at the time and PC had MDoAP with Athens who were tied to Int & therefore DF). Edited January 12, 2013 by Stewie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Xander the Only Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='Kongo Jack' timestamp='1357968994' post='3075289'] Goodness at what a mess. Non Grata, I laugh at the pitiful hypocritical existence you live. Like how you abandoned NEW during the NEW-DF war. [/quote] Not sure what you're on about, but at least we learned something from it. Apparently you disregarded that lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkfox Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1357972282' post='3075314'] We didn't "abandon" NEW. We were between a rock and a hard place. We promised to defend them from bandwagoners and we couldn't engage without ripping apart our side of the treaty web at the time we were part of the buildup for PB-Orders. (iFOK had a MDoAP with FARK at the time and PC had MDoAP with Athens who were tied to Int & therefore DF). [/quote] What stopped those alliances from fighting TPE? With that said I cant blame either iFOK or PC for not defending NEW then, and they went above their duty doing what they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigelopisan Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [color=#505050][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]01[22:32] <Chax[BFF]> No problem man. I personally want Kaskus to burn, I detest them more than I probably should in a healthy way.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#505050][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][22:33] <KoningXander> aye, they're a huge pain in the ass[/size][/font][/color] [color=#505050][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Now i wonder, who is the real puppetmaster? NPO is definately the puppet.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#505050][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]wakakakak... this is NEW[/size][/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Hakai Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 I'm surprised anyone is actually arguing with Kaskus members about this decision. they're obviously desperate for any kind of backup in their current situation. and are SO close to getting it. I'd be fighting for that too if I were them, whether the arguments are legitimate or not (which, they aren't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Oh hahaha wow! Rats are fleeing the ship. I find it absolutely hilarious that INT and BFF are cancelling now with those reasons. I mean they did willingly sign NEW after the NEW-FARK affair. Thought it was a one time screw up. I remember getting a lot of flack for not assisting NEW when our allies in FARK hit them while working around the clock to settle this while other parties (Hello INT) escalating things. I understand why you would cancel but the timing is horrible and you should not get this much praises for this. This was a scumbaggery and low action to take and even going so far to throw NEW to the wolves after your cancellation period is up. VE and GOONS, you guys can stop spinning. This action was horrible and you know it. You don't have to spin it the way you do just because they are your allies. This shows what kind of ally you are allied to yourselves. Good luck with such an ally and I sincerely hope BFF won't do such a thing to you when you need their help because I like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 [quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1357990445' post='3075362'] Oh hahaha wow! Rats are fleeing the ship. I find it absolutely hilarious that INT and BFF are cancelling now with those reasons. I mean they did willingly sign NEW after the NEW-FARK affair. Thought it was a one time screw up. I remember getting a lot of flack for not assisting NEW when our allies in FARK hit them while working around the clock to settle this while other parties (Hello INT) escalating things. I understand why you would cancel but the timing is horrible and you should not get this much praises for this. This was a scumbaggery and low action to take and even going so far to throw NEW to the wolves after your cancellation period is up. VE and GOONS, you guys can stop spinning. This action was horrible and you know it. You don't have to spin it the way you do just because they are your allies. This shows what kind of ally you are allied to yourselves. Good luck with such an ally and I sincerely hope BFF won't do such a thing to you when you need their help because I like you. [/quote] Would you be surprised if I told you it's [b]even worse[/b] than it seems right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorponok Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357874366' post='3074424'] For the benefit of everyone bar NEW, who they are supposedly assisting? Yeah because that makes sense. They completely sold out their ally. [img]http://i.imgur.com/Lcl2Yh.png[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/GCgyEh.png[/img] Are you seriously telling me NEW wouldn't of been better off with BFF just cancelling all together if they felt so hard done by? PS: Nice artwork. [/quote] EDIT: DDL Post FTL. Edited January 12, 2013 by Scorponok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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