Announcement from Pandora's Box

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1334423231' post='2953195']
Calling in a bloc treaty especially the bloc that was called in...it is a great luxury that many alliances would love to have. GOONS has many enemies for sure but don't be naive to think that there will be alliances knocking at their door to take them down because of this war. No alliance is strong alone. GOONS battlefield strength will be what it has always been and many alliances can match them on the battlefield, but only a handful can match them when it comes to political strength and those few are allied to them. I don't see what GOONS should be embarrassed about here; I agree to disagree with you.
[/quote]
No, no alliance will be knocking on their door because of this war alone, but don't think for a minute that it didn't put into people's minds that, "Hey, GOONS can't handle two small alliances, why should we fear them?" Just like the FAN-NPO war put into the global mind that the NPO can't destroy you no matter how hard they try. Just like how Vox put into people's minds that opposition is not solely on the battlefield, and war is won in other ways. Coming across as a very weak alliance, who out in public, puts on a very tough persona, is a very big PR blow. You can't avoid that fact. Every alliance that has relied on their allies to exist has fallen. No treaty lasts forever, and if you have to have friends to survive, you have a big fall coming. Just look to the past. Political positions come and go, and I would strongly advise GOONS to rethink their utter reliance on their allies to survive.

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1334423750' post='2953196']
Still as obtuse as ever I see. Your opening point was that they have equal numbers of WRC's. Those WRC's aren't helping GOONS if they can't be used to engage the enemy. Nations with full military wonders will suffer far less damage than those without. Yes GOONS could keep fighting, it doesn't make military sense for them to keep throwing their low tier nations at those wondered up nations when they can bring in PB in order to continually cycle in fresh nations and wear them down over time. HTH!
[/quote]
GOONS WRC's are not able to reach Mongols or Kaskus WRC's. I understand that. What I'm saying is, why would calling in four other alliances help? Does this bloc just have spare WRC nations sitting at low NS levels? I really doubt it. So, what does their presence help in defeating those nations with WRC's? GOONS has more than enough NS and MK money to defeat them, regardless of the advantage they have at the lower ranks. Nukes really aren't that damaging at small NS levels, and financial aid can easily cover the losses, while in the meantime you will wear their nation down with the help of two others. Why was GOONS not able to accomplish that? Does GOONS not have the activity to defeat these two alliances? Or did they just not have the coordination?

At some point, you need to hold people accountable for their inability to secure victory, and make changes so it doesn't happen again. They really shouldn't have required help.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Starfox101

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1334425712' post='2953231']
GOONS WRC's are not able to reach Mongols or Kaskus WRC's. I understand that. What I'm saying is, why would calling in four other alliances help? Does this bloc just have spare WRC nations sitting at low NS levels? I really doubt it. So, what does their presence help in defeating those nations with WRC's? GOONS has more than enough NS and MK money to defeat them, regardless of the advantage they have at the lower ranks. Nukes really aren't that damaging at small NS levels, and financial aid can easily cover the losses, while in the meantime you will wear their nation down with the help of two others. Why was GOONS not able to accomplish that? Does GOONS not have the activity to defeat these two alliances? Or did they just not have the coordination?

At some point, you need to hold people accountable for their inability to secure victory, and make changes so it doesn't happen again. They really shouldn't have required help.
[/quote]
Calling in 4 other alliances helps because it adds to the amount of fresh nations available in that range to hit MONkus. Of course PB doesn't have low NS WRC nations just sitting around, I wasn't saying that at all. When you keep throwing the same group of nations at superior foes they are going to get sick of it eventually. With MONkus choosing to drag the war out it makes sense to expand the pool of nations available to fight them. I'm sure GOONS could have won by themselves eventually. However they have allies willing to help either bring the war to a quicker end or take some of the burden off GOONS. You can complain they're wrong to do so, however they can and they did.

[Unknown Smurf]

For the record every single person I fought minus 1 had an SDI. 5 had WRCs.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Unknown Smurf

[Starfox101]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1334428136' post='2953253']
Calling in 4 other alliances helps because it adds to the amount of fresh nations available in that range to hit MONkus. Of course PB doesn't have low NS WRC nations just sitting around, I wasn't saying that at all. When you keep throwing the same group of nations at superior foes they are going to get sick of it eventually. With MONkus choosing to drag the war out it makes sense to expand the pool of nations available to fight them. I'm sure GOONS could have won by themselves eventually. However they have allies willing to help either bring the war to a quicker end or take some of the burden off GOONS. You can complain they're wrong to do so, however they can and they did.
[/quote]
So, GOONS doesn't have the backbone to finish the war? You need fresh nations? Really, in the long run that's really going to hurt you guys. The nations may have started superior, but if you were constantly filling their slots with 3 wars, and 15 million and tech, it wouldn't matter if they had a WRC, they would stand no chance.

Not that I care much, but you're really putting off a persona that you like to beat up little guys, but when they hit back, you run for help. What happens when you can't run for help?

[Sardonic]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1334422890' post='2953192']
yes and im sure that those goon nations with wrc's are in exactly the right range to fight those MONkus nations with wrc's
[/quote]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1334423231' post='2953195']
Calling in a bloc treaty especially the bloc that was called in...it is a great luxury that many alliances would love to have. GOONS has many enemies for sure but don't be naive to think that there will be alliances knocking at their door to take them down because of this war. No alliance is strong alone. GOONS battlefield strength will be what it has always been and many alliances can match them on the battlefield, but only a handful can match them when it comes to political strength and those few are allied to them. I don't see what GOONS should be embarrassed about here; I agree to disagree with you.
[/quote]
These guys get it.

[Tick1]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334430921' post='2953271']
For the record every single person I fought minus 1 had an SDI. 5 had WRCs.
[/quote]

Muzzle your PoW please GOONS

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1334431567' post='2953277']
So, GOONS doesn't have the backbone to finish the war? You need fresh nations? Really, in the long run that's really going to hurt you guys. The nations may have started superior, but if you were constantly filling their slots with 3 wars, and 15 million and tech, it wouldn't matter if they had a WRC, they would stand no chance.

Not that I care much, but you're really putting off a persona that you like to beat up little guys, but when they hit back, you run for help. What happens when you can't run for help?
[/quote]

For the WRC ..myth. Here's a breakdown of their WRCs (minus one I can't find):

Not in range:
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=61657 (156k = too large)

In range:
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=119998 - 3.5k (26k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=107426&Extended=0 (60k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=265610 - 31k (new to AA)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=120625 - 31k (45k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=126591 - 17k (35k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=122790 - 26k (60k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=183110 - 25k (35k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=62921 - 22k (26k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=74333 - 17k (34k 30 days ago)

Versus:

Mongols:
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=423414 - 16k (24k 30 days ago)

Kaskus:
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=238416 - 3k (27k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=182057 - 34k (44k NS 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=338333 - 30k (84k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=146315 - 39k (46k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=346963 - 29k (77k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=265697 - 19k (67k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=177514 - 19k (33k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=351335 - 16k (44k 30 days ago)


GOONS would have had no problem covering these nations considering they also have another 49 nations between 16k (minimum NS stated above of enemies) and 65k ..most of which have SDIs.

Any semi-competent milcom person could get a person with a WRC on most Kaskus+Mongols nations with them, as well as stagger correctly and throw a couple with SDIs on them as well.

EDIT: Especially considering the "mercenaries" they had on the AA, examples:

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=145863
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=31718

Edited April 14, 2012 by Unknown Smurf

[Bob Janova]

[quote]GOONS battlefield strength will be what it has always been and many alliances can match them on the battlefield, but only a handful can match them when it comes to political strength and those few are allied to them[/quote]
"Let MK show you why we don't need WRCs"

I rather agree with Starfox, this is showing that GOONS has nothing to bring to the table themselves, they can only drag their allies in, even against two micros. How long before their allies get sick of taking PR and NS hits on behalf of GOONS and getting very little (except for MK and Umbrella who get their tech) in return?

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334432526' post='2953286']
For the WRC ..myth. Here's a breakdown of their WRCs (minus one I can't find):

Not in range:
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=61657 (156k = too large)

In range:
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=119998 - 3.5k (26k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=107426&Extended=0 (60k 30 days ago - Perfect for the NEW guy Umbrella had to declare on. As well as a couple NEW guys that jumped on the AA but didn't war)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=265610 - 31k (new to AA)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=120625 - 31k (45k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=126591 - 17k (35k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=122790 - 26k (60k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=183110 - 25k (35k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=62921 - 22k (26k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=74333 - 17k (34k 30 days ago)

Versus:

Mongols:
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=423414 - 16k (24k 30 days ago)

Kaskus:
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=238416 - 3k (27k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=182057 - 34k (44k NS 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=338333 - 30k (84k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=146315 - 39k (46k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=346963 - 29k (77k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=265697 - 19k (67k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=177514 - 19k (33k 30 days ago)
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=351335 - 16k (44k 30 days ago)


GOONS would have had no problem covering these nations considering they also have another 49 nations between 16k (minimum NS stated above of enemies) and 65k ..most of which have SDIs.

Any semi-competent milcom person could get a person with a WRC on most Kaskus+Mongols nations with them, as well as stagger correctly and throw a couple with SDIs on them as well.

EDIT: Especially considering the "mercenaries" they had on the AA, examples:

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=145863
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=31718
[/quote]
The majority of our WRC nations, as you can see, are engaged, barring a few people we were unable to reach. They still lack the warchests and tech advantages that kaskus possesses, so it's still not like it they don't still outgun us in those ranges.

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1334434212' post='2953298']
"Let MK show you why we don't need WRCs"

I rather agree with Starfox, this is showing that GOONS has nothing to bring to the table themselves, they can only drag their allies in, even against two micros. How long before their allies get sick of taking PR and NS hits on behalf of GOONS and getting very little (except for MK and Umbrella who get their tech) in return?
[/quote]
You wound me, I would have thought you better than to stoop to the level of our detractors. We brought plenty to the table in DH/NPO, and many conflicts before that. I think you'll find our allies are more than happy with being tied to us.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Sardonic

[the rebel]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1334428136' post='2953253']
When you keep throwing the same group of nations at superior foes they are going to get sick of it eventually. With MONkus choosing to drag the war out it makes sense to expand the pool of nations available to fight them. I'm sure GOONS could have won by themselves eventually.[/quote]

Indeed their member loses show that, although it was funny in they chose to start the war and in the starting weeks where they was beating their chests going "woo! will just be easy like roguefest" and now its like "damn! we getting our arse handed to us, time for PB".

[enderland]

This amuses me greatly.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1334423750' post='2953196']
Still as obtuse as ever I see. Your opening point was that they have equal numbers of WRC's. Those WRC's aren't helping GOONS if they can't be used to engage the enemy. Nations with full military wonders will suffer far less damage than those without. Yes GOONS could keep fighting, it doesn't make military sense for them to keep throwing their low tier nations at those wondered up nations when they can bring in PB in order to continually cycle in fresh nations and wear them down over time. HTH!
[/quote]
"It doesn't make military sense for them to keep letting their own nations get wrecked by those wondered-up nations when they can let their allies nations' get wrecked instead."

[Ardus]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1334434212' post='2953298']
"Let MK show you why we don't need WRCs"

I rather agree with Starfox, this is showing that GOONS has nothing to bring to the table themselves, they can only drag their allies in, even against two micros. How long before their allies get sick of taking PR and NS hits on behalf of GOONS and getting very little (except for MK and Umbrella who get their tech) in return?
[/quote]
The experience of DH-NPO was a fine demonstration of what GOONS brings to the table; without their aggressive and tireless engagement of NPO, the MK middle tier that was drug down into the seething morass of devastated Pacifican nations would have been consumed wholesale. This fact remains true, despite the continued attempt of people in this thread to construe a broad, Vlad-style operation as evidence that GOONS are anything less than any other alliance.

GOONS has demonstrated military skill when it is most needed, diplomatic skill with spheres of influence I simply can't mesh with, and economic value unmatched by any other alliance in CN, fueled in part by being one of few alliances that still bring in fresh, new nations to the world. They're also incredibly humorous. So "has nothing to bring to the table" is an absurd statement. Anybody openly dreaming of a day when Pandora's Box and Doomhouse abandon GOONS are either being willfully ignorant in order to push a narrative or are so witheringly stupid that they shouldn't be trusted with a potato gun, let alone any form of alliance leadership.

Until very recently, Bob, you were aligned with GOONS and spoke to their defense. Though my fellow Shrooms (and probably Schattenman if he happens to pass by) will vociferously disagree, I think you're better than this sort of petty, mob-pandering barbing.

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1334431567' post='2953277']
So, GOONS doesn't have the backbone to finish the war? You need fresh nations? Really, in the long run that's really going to hurt you guys. The nations may have started superior, but if you were constantly filling their slots with 3 wars, and 15 million and tech, it wouldn't matter if they had a WRC, they would stand no chance.

Not that I care much, but you're really putting off a persona that you like to beat up little guys, but when they hit back, you run for help. What happens when you can't run for help?
[/quote]
You're so adamant that GOONS is failing. Please list all the alliances currently in existence that could take down Kaskus/Mongols without having to rely on allies assuming of course the same scenario because Admin knows that most alliances would cave and offer up a white peace or lower reps just to get out of the Kaskus/Mongol cross hairs. Starfox, how would your past alliances fair?

[Bob Janova]

Until quite recently GOONS hadn't done anything much to disagree with. You may remember me being critical of all of you Doomhousians for hitting NPO when all their allies were tied up in another war, and now we have GOONS not only in aggressive warfare, but unable to finish the job they started and having to call in allies. You should know me better by now than to think that my praise or criticism goes down treaty lines.

Okay, 'nothing' was an exaggeration (and I'm sure you knew that), but their actions are increasingly calling down PR and real NS damage, and their value (particularly to PB, considering how much of their focus and tech dealing is with Doomhouse) is not as net positive as it once was.

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1334434212' post='2953298']
"Let MK show you why we don't need WRCs"

I rather agree with Starfox, this is showing that GOONS has nothing to bring to the table themselves, they can only drag their allies in, even against two micros. How long before their allies get sick of taking PR and NS hits on behalf of GOONS and getting very little (except for MK and Umbrella who get their tech) in return?
[/quote]
In the nation of Asysias we like to watch a sport called basketball and specifically the NBA. A bloc is similar to an NBA team. It would be great to have 5 extremely agile and tall players that can all play the point, shooting guard, small forward, power forward, and center, but players like that simply don't exist. You get yourself some solid bigs (Umbrella/NG), small versatile forwards/shooting guards (VE/FOK), and a great point guard (GOONS) that distributes the ball (tech) and you have yourself a solid lineup that makes a great team. GOONS brings plenty to the table and so do each of their PB/DH allies. I hate to compliment them because I do sorta hate them but their damn near a dream team.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1334437833' post='2953328']
In the nation of Asysias we like to watch a sport called basketball and specifically the NBA. A bloc is similar to an NBA team. It would be great to have 5 extremely agile and tall players that can all play the point, shooting guard, small forward, power forward, and center, but players like that simply don't exist. You get yourself some solid bigs (Umbrella/NG), small versatile forwards/shooting guards (VE/FOK), and a great point guard (GOONS) that distributes the ball (tech) and you have yourself a solid lineup that makes a great team. GOONS brings plenty to the table and so do each of their PB/DH allies. I hate to compliment them because I do sorta hate them but their damn near a dream team.
[/quote]

In my nation Silla we play basketball too. The only difference is we don't play 5 on 1 basketball games in Silla (the GOONS-Kaskus war). We certainly don't cheer if one guy has to play 200 and gets beaten.

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1334438129' post='2953329']
In my nation Silla we play basketball too. The only difference is we don't play 5 on 1 basketball games in Silla (the GOONS-Kaskus war). We certainly don't cheer if one guy has to play 200 and gets beaten.
[/quote]
Omni, I'm referring to Bob Janova's assertion that GOONS brings nothing to the table; I said nothing about what the war odds in what you quoted. However, war is not about playing with even odds. The best war doctrine to guarantee victory is overwhelming force; going to war and tabling firepower just to keep things fair/even is silly talk.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1334437539' post='2953327']
Until quite recently GOONS hadn't done anything much to disagree with. You may remember me being critical of all of you Doomhousians for hitting NPO when all their allies were tied up in another war, and now we have GOONS not only in aggressive warfare, but unable to finish the job they started and having to call in allies. You should know me better by now than to think that my praise or criticism goes down treaty lines.

Okay, 'nothing' was an exaggeration (and I'm sure you knew that), but their actions are increasingly calling down PR and real NS damage, and their value (particularly to PB, considering how much of their focus and tech dealing is with Doomhouse) is not as net positive as it once was.
[/quote]
They raided somebody. An outside party sent aid to the nation being raided. GOONS demanded satisfaction. Outside party refused. War were declared. If you were engaged with an unaligned nation for any reason and I sent them aid, you'd declare war if the Kingdom and I refused to recompense you for the damages suffered by result of my funding. You would have good cause to do so. You would be almost obligated to do so, lest you encourage others who don't like you to also send aid to any nations you happen to be engaged with.

That is the present circumstance. Construction of it as either aggressive or defensive to either party is meaningless.

GOONS took on a group of nations decently equipped to defend themselves and were only further reinforced by the independent actions of former NEW members, for whom GOONS were ill-suited. NEW, for all the criticism I give them, are by no means pushovers when it comes to war. Given GOONS bottom-heavy nature and state of reconstruction from the previous war, this ultimate course of action should have, if anything, been employed sooner.

Every individual here has their own strengths and weaknesses. These strengths and weaknesses aggregate into those of their alliance. GOONS are now better aware of both. If anything, they will be of greater value to their allies following this conflict as a result this new knowledge.

As for PR, I don't give a damn about the state of GOONS' PR. PR is not something to fear or follow. Public opinion is but another field of battle to control in service to greater principals and objectives. I for one savor the task of fighting for it, just as I savor the glory of war. So let them be hated. All the more opportunity to see our detractors make asses of themselves and to make asses of them.

[i]OOC: I'd love to stay and keep up the battle, but I really must resume studying CorpTax. Toodles.[/i]

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1334438553' post='2953331']
Omni, I'm referring to Bob Janova's assertion that GOONS brings nothing to the table; I said nothing about what the war odds in what you quoted. However, war is not about playing with even odds. The best war doctrine to guarantee victory is overwhelming force; going to war and tabling firepower just to keep things fair/even is silly talk.
[/quote]

I don't think everyone is quite understand the outrage though. It's not about bringing in overwhelming odds against your enemy. It's more about demanding ridiculous amounts and then having others have to put up with your stupidity.

Since you enjoy using analogies it's kind of like this:

GOONS demands some nerd's lunch money. The nerdy kid knows some sort of martial arts and beats up GOONS. So GOONS and his friends jumps the nerd after school with knives, brass knuckles, etc... Do you still believe GOONS is morally in the right?

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1334438919' post='2953336']
They raided somebody. An outside party sent aid to the nation being raided. GOONS demanded satisfaction. Outside party refused. War were declared.
[/quote]

War was* declared or Wars* were declared.

Any comment on the amounts charged from GOONS? Since that's how this war began I think that is the main problem everyone has. Why would you charge one group 18 million, one group 3 million, and one group nothing at all. It seems very cowardly doesn't it?

[Stonewall Jaxon]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1334438919' post='2953336']
They raided somebody. An outside party sent aid to the nation being raided. GOONS demanded satisfaction. Outside party refused. War were declared. If you were engaged with an unaligned nation for any reason and I sent them aid, you'd declare war if the Kingdom and I refused to recompense you for the damages suffered by result of my funding. You would have good cause to do so. You would be almost obligated to do so, lest you encourage others who don't like you to also send aid to any nations you happen to be engaged with.

That is the present circumstance. Construction of it as either aggressive or defensive to either party is meaningless[/quote]

I miss the days when raiders recognized they were doing dirty work and that sometimes raids didn't turn out to be beneficial for the raider. A raider can luck out and get an inactive who doesn't even log in to fight back for 18 days, and other times the raided party has friends and maybe even a decent fighting ability. Instead, now when GOONS tries to, metaphorically, steal a smaller kid's lunch money, and that kid has his friends help him out, GOONS throws a temper tantrum, and daddy Umbrella and Uncle Pandora actually come in to help him fight the little kids. Do you see what a bad influence you're being on your kid, Ardus? GOONS should be grounded; a week without TV or their skateboard. Make it happen.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]Any comment on the amounts charged from GOONS? Since that's how this war began I think that is the main problem everyone has. Why would you charge one group 18 million, one group 3 million, and one group nothing at all. It seems very cowardly doesn't it? [/quote]
There are several alliances who like to pull the 'aiding a nation at war is an act of war and we will roll you hard' line when it's someone they can easily bully, but they don't even seem to notice if a well connected alliance sends aid to a nation they attacked. Launching an all out war on a micro-alliance for the sake of $3m (if you can't raid successfully with your opponent receiving an aid pack then you're useless anyway), but letting other alliances get away with doing the exact same thing, is what makes them look like bullies. Failing to actually roll the micro in question makes them look like weak bullies.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1334423750' post='2953196']
Yes GOONS could keep fighting, it doesn't make military sense for them to keep throwing their low tier nations at those wondered up nations when they can bring in PB in order to continually cycle in fresh nations and wear them down over time. HTH!
[/quote]

If it doesnt make military sense for them to continue a war they started, one would think they would seek peace, rather than further escalation. I guess that's too common-sense or something.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1334439696' post='2953338']
War was* declared or Wars* were declared.[/quote]

[url=http://youtu.be/YQkaD6fG8mk]I direct your attention here for a better understanding of my deliberate error.[/url]

[quote]Any comment on the amounts charged from GOONS? Since that's how this war began I think that is the main problem everyone has. Why would you charge one group 18 million, one group 3 million, and one group nothing at all. It seems very cowardly doesn't it?
[/quote]
They're both pocket change as far as I'm concerned. Seems to me to be more about how much GOONS likes the respective parties than an issue of strength.

[Lord Caparo]

Is anyone missing this here?


Mongols sends 3mil and 2000 soldiers, gets asked 18mil.

NEW sends aid. request is what was sent.

Legacy sends 3mil, only asked 3mil in return.


Is this because GOONs doesnt want to back themselves up against bigger alliances?