The Network Hungers

[Jacuns]

.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Jacuns

[summerisway2hot]

[quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1323444810' post='2870951']
CnG rolls together. Whatever the circumstances. I thought everyone had got that memo by now.

Whether or not one approves of opening this front pre-emptively, no-one can honestly be surprised to see that when the time comes to act, CnG acts as one.
[/quote]


If one idiot jumps off of the bridge, we all might as well do it!

Intelligent!

[Shimmer]

[quote name='summerisway2hot' timestamp='1323445924' post='2870958']
If one idiot jumps off of the bridge, we all might as well do it!

Intelligent!
[/quote]
The difference is we didn't chain ourselves to idiots that is the SF/XX overlap of two equally worthless blocs.

Individually I do like Sparta and MHA isn't bad, but they may as well put out a declaration of neutrality because that is about all they are good for.

[Gn0xious Jr]

hi ODN, much love for ya! that is all... thanks

[summerisway2hot]

[quote name='TimLee' timestamp='1323446560' post='2870963']
The difference is we didn't chain ourselves to idiots that is the SF/XX overlap of two equally worthless blocs.

Individually I do like Sparta and MHA isn't bad, but they may as well put out a declaration of neutrality because that is about all they are good for.
[/quote]

That wasn't what was happening. Once requested, XX is used. We were told to relax for now... the trolling on our irc didn't get us in, so you came in and just decided to hit someone that wasn't doing anything. But I'm sure you already knew that...

[Pingu]

[quote name='summerisway2hot' timestamp='1323445924' post='2870958']
If one idiot jumps off of the bridge, we all might as well do it!

Intelligent!
[/quote]

Picture a chain gang. If one of us jumps, all of us go. An MADP bloc is a deliberate limitation on freedom of action. It's as clear a signal as possible to the rest of the world that messing with any of us is messing with all of us. No e-lawyers need be hired.

Fark kicked off this particular front. I understand that your commitment to them is not of the same nature as the mutual commitment of CnG members. And so I'm sorry they got you into this. But they jumped off the bridge, and we're all going down.

[Taget]

A juicy declaration!

As for complaints about ODN rolling with their CnG brothers. I was in an alliance that was allied to CnG where CnG went in the other direction. Can't say we were thrilled about it. It did cause some tensions. But we understood that CnG is a long standing MADP pact with tradition and that was part of their very identity. They were going to roll together whether it was with us or against us. But we knew they'd be there for us and make sure that in the end no true harm came to us.

Sometimes an ally can really shine when it is on the opposite side of the war. I've seen this a number of times with different CnG alliances. They all make great allies.

[letub]

o/ ODN

It's a pleasure to be fighting along side you in our first conflict with CnG.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='summerisway2hot' timestamp='1323445924' post='2870958']
If one idiot jumps off of the bridge, we all might as well do it!

Intelligent!
[/quote]

You obviously have no clue what CnG is or why it was formed.

[Shimmer]

[quote name='summerisway2hot' timestamp='1323448969' post='2870985']
That wasn't what was happening. Once requested, XX is used. We were told to relax for now... the trolling on our irc didn't get us in, so you came in and just decided to hit someone that wasn't doing anything. But I'm sure you already knew that...
[/quote]
GATO did not partake in "trolling" of your IRC, and if so it wasn't sanctioned. Let me know I will deal with discuss with those individuals. At least to my knowledge. It was poor decision making on MHA's part to think your XX partner could preempt an alliance without other alliances in XX getting preempted.

Edited December 9, 2011 by TimLee

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Taget' timestamp='1323450910' post='2870999']
A juicy declaration!

As for complaints about ODN rolling with their CnG brothers. I was in an alliance that was allied to CnG where CnG went in the other direction. Can't say we were thrilled about it. It did cause some tensions. But we understood that CnG is a long standing MADP pact with tradition and that was part of their very identity. They were going to roll together whether it was with us or against us. But we knew they'd be there for us and make sure that in the end no true harm came to us.

Sometimes an ally can really shine when it is on the opposite side of the war. I've seen this a number of times with different CnG alliances. They all make great allies.
[/quote]

What this man said. I was there too.

[Comrade Craig]

[quote name='Proest' timestamp='1323429903' post='2870822']
Wow. What a load of crock the declarations against MHA are tonight. Absolutely stunning. So, without a proper and noted casus beli, the forces of Complaints and Grievances (apparently now led by GATO) + Hooligans and TPE attacked the MHA for supposedly planning to attack TLR (lol? paranoid?) whom has been trolling us in #MHA for days now because we *haven't* attacked them and they *want* us to attack them to defend Fark. Okay, first things on this: MHA is a sovereign alliance whom has allies, like most of everyone else. Now, when a war occurs, allies strategically plan their moves, yes? Apparently, MHA is not allowed time to discuss and design plans for execution of assistance in a proper format and when so requested by her allies. Apparently, MHA is supposed to move to the whims and desires of those attacking our allies -- all right, I guess that's a fair demand, in a way. Not at all mentally balanced, but maybe fair.



I would like to point out that MHA has been attacked by four alliances for absolutely no reason whatsoever other than some paranoid delusion that we somehow find TLR soo magnetic that we were pulled in by their constant harassment and lost in their glory that we just *had* to attack them. lol, yeah, right. Okay, so, now that the obvious has been pointed out, what does Complaints and Grievances + crew say to this?
[/quote]

Preemption is fundamentally different that "no reason." Preemption is a tactical decision to strike an adversary before they strike you. "No reason" implies randomness. Regardless of whether or not an individual believes this attack was righteous or justified, we can all agree that this attack was not random.

MHA was (and now definitely [i]is[/i]) a member of the opposing coalition. There was credible suspicion to believe they (you) were going to attack. Given that information, C&G could either sit on its hands and do nothing, or it could seize the tactical high ground.

Is preemption moral? Is it ethical? Who cares. Your direct allies opened this front with a preemptive attack. It is the height of absurdity to rail against the tactic only when it's used against you.

-Craig

Edited December 9, 2011 by Comrade Craig

[Badpoet]

Nevertheless...The Network Hungers! Give'em hell, ODN!

[summerisway2hot]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1323452375' post='2871024']
Preemption is fundamentally different that "no reason." Preemption is a tactical decision to strike an adversary before they strike you. "No reason" implies randomness. Regardless of whether or not an individual believes this attack was righteous or justified, we can all agree that this attack was not random.

MHA was (and now definitely [i]is[/i]) a member of the opposing coalition. There was credible suspicion to believe they (you) were going to attack. Given that information, C&G could either sit on its hands and do nothing, or it could seize the tactical high ground.

Is preemption moral? Is it ethical? Who cares. Your direct allies opened this front with a preemptive (or maybe even random!) attack. It is the height of absurdity to rail against the tactic only when it's used against you.

-Craig
[/quote]


Because obviously the first place MHA would strike (if we were to) was CnG... you think pretty highly of yourself. The only point that MHA would have gotten in this war was when asked by allies. That hadn't happened. Many people wanted to see us get in this war. Many. I personally don't approve of any part of this war (that was started because two alliances held a grudge, REALLY? What are you, two?), and I, along with much of MHA, still think this whole thing is stupid. I know that NpO screwed those guys, but you want to go to war with them more than a year later to "get even?" Stupid and childish. I don't agree with the entire reason the war exists, which makes me all the more angry when we get attacked "preemptively" so that we "wouldnt attack you." Its a crock of bull that you've cooked up, and anyone from the outside looking at this war web and how everyone within it is acting would probably think the majority of people that are involved in the creation of these wars are mental.

Maybe they are.

And, in case you can't tell, some of us have been watching this unravel and actually see how things started off. I disagree with what Fark did, and its gonna screw us, and they made the same mistake everyone else did. It just blows that we're hauled into this completely stupid war because of other people pushing the button.

I'm not saying that what you did was wrong, everyone has their reasons and if you really thought we were going to attack you, then you made the right choice. That being said, I'm naturally a logical person and the logic of this war is lost on me. Just sucks that we got pulled into it due to our allies making decisions I for one don't agree with.

And I think the Casus Belli kind of explains why I feel the way I do. This feels like the US-Iraq war-completely pointless but it'll make the people with their finger on the trigger happy. Maybe some good will come out (Saddam gone), but is it worth how far back its going to put EVERYONE in the game?

Best of luck to our allies and our enemies!

[janax]

[quote name='summerisway2hot' timestamp='1323455285' post='2871051']
Because obviously the first place MHA would strike (if we were to) was CnG... you think pretty highly of yourself. The only point that MHA would have gotten in this war was when asked by allies. That hadn't happened. Many people wanted to see us get in this war. Many. I personally don't approve of any part of this war (that was started because two alliances held a grudge, REALLY? What are you, two?), and I, along with much of MHA, still think this whole thing is stupid. I know that NpO screwed those guys, but you want to go to war with them more than a year later to "get even?" Stupid and childish. I don't agree with the entire reason the war exists, which makes me all the more angry when we get attacked "preemptively" so that we "wouldnt attack you." Its a crock of bull that you've cooked up, and anyone from the outside looking at this war web and how everyone within it is acting would probably think the majority of people that are involved in the creation of these wars are mental.

Maybe they are.

And, in case you can't tell, some of us have been watching this unravel and actually see how things started off. I disagree with what Fark did, and its gonna screw us, and they made the same mistake everyone else did. It just blows that we're hauled into this completely stupid war because of other people pushing the button.

I'm not saying that what you did was wrong, everyone has their reasons and if you really thought we were going to attack you, then you made the right choice. That being said, I'm naturally a logical person and the logic of this war is lost on me. Just sucks that we got pulled into it due to our allies making decisions I for one don't agree with.

And I think the Casus Belli kind of explains why I feel the way I do. This feels like the US-Iraq war-completely pointless but it'll make the people with their finger on the trigger happy. Maybe some good will come out (Saddam gone), but is it worth how far back its going to put EVERYONE in the game?

Best of luck to our allies and our enemies!
[/quote]


Sometimes the stupid things your ally's do rolls downhill to hit you.

On the upside, you got Gato and ODN, while quite competent, have no real beef with you guys. Guess who the alternative was

[Comrade Craig]

[quote name='summerisway2hot' timestamp='1323455285' post='2871051']
but is it worth how far back its going to put EVERYONE in the game?
[/quote]

[OOC]Well, on a technically level: if [i]everyone[/i] is put back, then no one is worse off than before.[/OOC]

-Craig

[AirMe]

[quote name='Proest' timestamp='1323429903' post='2870822']
Wow. What a load of crock the declarations against MHA are tonight. Absolutely stunning. So, without a proper and noted casus beli, the forces of Complaints and Grievances (apparently now led by GATO) + Hooligans and TPE attacked the MHA for supposedly planning to attack TLR (lol? paranoid?) whom has been trolling us in #MHA for days now because we *haven't* attacked them and they *want* us to attack them to defend Fark. Okay, first things on this: MHA is a sovereign alliance whom has allies, like most of everyone else. Now, when a war occurs, allies strategically plan their moves, yes? Apparently, MHA is not allowed time to discuss and design plans for execution of assistance in a proper format and when so requested by her allies. Apparently, MHA is supposed to move to the whims and desires of those attacking our allies -- all right, I guess that's a fair demand, in a way. Not at all mentally balanced, but maybe fair.



I would like to point out that MHA has been attacked by four alliances for absolutely no reason whatsoever other than some paranoid delusion that we somehow find TLR soo magnetic that we were pulled in by their constant harassment and lost in their glory that we just *had* to attack them. lol, yeah, right. Okay, so, now that the obvious has been pointed out, what does Complaints and Grievances + crew say to this?




I am sure the answer will be soo amazing it will change the planet forever. But, I highly doubt that. Dishonor is the way of the world now.



EDIT: Grammatical error.
[/quote]

Where was your indignation when NPO got attacked for no reason by your ally FARK? That's what I thought. This is a text book example of blatant hypocrisy. The blame lies with your allies, not with ODN or C&G.

[Shockz]

[quote name='summerisway2hot' timestamp='1323455285' post='2871051']
Because obviously the first place MHA would strike (if we were to) was CnG... you think pretty highly of yourself. The only point that MHA would have gotten in this war was when asked by allies. That hadn't happened. Many people wanted to see us get in this war. Many. I personally don't approve of any part of this war (that was started because two alliances held a grudge, REALLY? What are you, two?), and I, along with much of MHA, still think this whole thing is stupid. I know that NpO screwed those guys, but you want to go to war with them more than a year later to "get even?" Stupid and childish. I don't agree with the entire reason the war exists, which makes me all the more angry when we get attacked "preemptively" so that we "wouldnt attack you." Its a crock of bull that you've cooked up, and anyone from the outside looking at this war web and how everyone within it is acting would probably think the majority of people that are involved in the creation of these wars are mental.

Maybe they are.

And, in case you can't tell, some of us have been watching this unravel and actually see how things started off. I disagree with what Fark did, and its gonna screw us, and they made the same mistake everyone else did. It just blows that we're hauled into this completely stupid war because of other people pushing the button.

I'm not saying that what you did was wrong, everyone has their reasons and if you really thought we were going to attack you, then you made the right choice. That being said, I'm naturally a logical person and the logic of this war is lost on me. Just sucks that we got pulled into it due to our allies making decisions I for one don't agree with.

And I think the Casus Belli kind of explains why I feel the way I do. This feels like the US-Iraq war-completely pointless but it'll make the people with their finger on the trigger happy. Maybe some good will come out (Saddam gone), but is it worth how far back its going to put EVERYONE in the game?

Best of luck to our allies and our enemies!
[/quote]

My friend; I'm sorry you don't like the circumstances you have been put in. However, those are gripes you must take to your government as it was the decisions they made that have led to this very moment. If your government didn't approve the actions of Fark, then they should have made an announcement saying so or at the very least stating some sort of neutrality in the matter.

If you didn't plan to remain neutral how can you fault the leaders of the alliances whom have attacked you for pre-emptively striking based on the theory that you would retaliate on the alliances attacking Fark (because doing so would be the only logical thing MHA could do).

You can complain all you want about the morals, ethics, reasoning; but our reasons remain the same and they are logical. I'm sorry that this puts back MHA's nation building but WAR is part of the game.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Wilhelm the Demented' timestamp='1323436611' post='2870873']
We understood months out that this was a tough spot for Umbrella, ODN, and Asgaard and we knew they would get involved. It's part of war. [b]What we didn't know was that ODN would aggressively attack one of our allies directly, so excuse us if we're a little pissed off.[/b] You see, we maintained those treaties because we didn't want this war to get in the way of the friendships that they represented over some petty grudges. (No offense, TOP and IRON, I think all grudges are petty).
[/quote]

Sorry to point this out dude but; why no outrage at R&R for hitting Asgaard? A bit of consistency would be cool y'know.

[Cataduanes]

So Sparta when are you going to rip up that treaty with lowdown horrible backstabbing ODN?

[Ivan V]

[quote name='Jacuns' timestamp='1323442526' post='2870919']
Wow, You could have bought us a pack of Cigs because we like a nice smoke after we get good and FCKED
[/quote]

In other news, Sparta is now tied with CoJ for the largest exporter of melodrama.

[Trinite]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1323457460' post='2871073']
Where was your indignation when NPO got attacked for no reason by your ally FARK? That's what I thought. This is a text book example of blatant hypocrisy. The blame lies with your allies, not with ODN or C&G.
[/quote]
NPO publicly declared their support of TOP/IRON against Polar (Fark's ally for some reason). Fark's attack diverted alliances from their allies. It's iffy, and I certainly have some qualms about it, but it makes sense.

CnG hit someone who had done no such thing. I'm not saying that MHA was going to stay nuetral, but there is literally nobody left on our side. This doesn't dictate where anyone will be except MHA, and it gaurantees that they will be on CnG. Who are they protecting? If MHA was going to hit TLR, which they weren't, then GATO and ODN are still there too jump on them, and TLR should hardly be fully engaged with Fark with all the help they've got. Instead, they gaurantee that XX and CnG are beating the crap out of each other with everyone else involved on this front completely free from the threat of counters. So we get XX and CnG who don't really have a problem with each other beating each other down.

I mean, it's not just that ODN hit our ally. We expected that eventually. It sucks, but CnG rolls together. We understand. It's more that it was stupid to do this. Everyone we like loses.

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1323460396' post='2871097']
Sorry to point this out dude but; why no outrage at R&R for hitting Asgaard? A bit of consistency would be cool y'know.
[/quote]
For one, that was in defense of their ally (so not aggresively... kind of a big difference). Also, Asgaard is going to win that war. And additionally, MJ and SF have some !@#$ to work out. Lots of reasons.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Trinite

[foxfire99]

[quote name='Ivan V' timestamp='1323461835' post='2871113']
In other news, Sparta is now tied with CoJ for the largest exporter of melodrama.
[/quote]

Really? Sparta just started up with the drama this war, and while CoJ's drama per capita is extremely high, they just don't operate on a large enough scale to really compete. The largest exporter is probably TOP or Polar.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1323460798' post='2871101']
So Sparta when are you going to rip up that treaty with lowdown horrible backstabbing ODN?
[/quote]
We might be highly upset but we aren't going to rush in to anything.

We'll see what happens over the next few days and get back to you on that one.

[Tulak Hord]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1323429344' post='2870812']
So no one from Spartan government has approached anyone from BAPS or Olympus about getting out of that front so you could hit a ODN MDP partner?
[/quote]

No.

Considering when the rumors/faked logs come out merely makes it even funnier, IMO.


I wish ODN and MHA a speedy resolution to this conflict.