The Network Hungers

[Trinite]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1323813244' post='2876935']
Or it could be GATO-ODN playing Fark-FAN's game better than Fark-FAN? Couldnt it?
[/quote]
Well you guys had a few more peices . When someone does something you don't like, it's always better to one up them.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1323813713' post='2876945']
What is there to call us on? TOP was in a war with NpO, that our allies in Shroomland supported. With the unique relationship to C&G and the shrooms, why wouldnt C&G involvement be up front? By the same token, SF were in the channels of the coalition defending Polar. With one SF member also being an XX member, you guys essentially did the same thing. They are called war planning channels for a reason.

Every single one of the moves made by your side this war, has been done with the intent purpose of making it difficult for us to find counters that will be acceptable to those members of our coalition in the unfortunate spot of having allies on both sides. Why is this a "strategy" to your side? Why is not viewed as a carte blanche for your coalition to try to manipulate allies on the other side, into a position where they cant properly defend their allies that they have decided to fight for? War is not meant to be a clean business. Opposing armies line up, and their orders are to kill people, and break things. This is war, not a game of golf or a medieval fencing duel.
[/quote]
About 6 pages ago some folks from CnG were saying if RnR or Sparta were hit first then TLR would have supported defending them, essentially blaming Fark's pre-empt for CnG being on the other side. That's what. You've been arguing against straw men since then, and I'm not entirely sure why. I will say that a day or so after Polar got hit, someone asked what was going on with our side.
[quote name='Trinite' timestamp='1322806239']
As for the war I have no idea. There seems to be a game of cat and mouse going on with the major blocs that people seem to think will have some effect on the outcome. It won't and it's boring me. I'm sitting in peace mode and my casualty count is remaining stagnant. Dislike
[/quote]

[MCRABT]

Sparta you can tell you have never been on the loosing end of a war.

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='the damned' timestamp='1323812462' post='2876924']
That's the thing though, you're defending against someone who didnt attack you. If you declared on Fark that would be a defense. If you declare on MHA (not involved yet in the war) it is aggression. I cant believe you guys dont understand the difference between defense and aggression.
[/quote]

MHA were hit because they were a threat to us and our allies. Simple as that. Yes, it was an aggressive strike and as such, GATO asked ODN to go in on the Mutual Aggression article of the C&G treaty and optional aggression clauses would be used for Hooligans and TPE.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1323818179' post='2876987']
Sparta you can tell you have never been on the loosing end of a war.
[/quote]
Pearls of wisdom right here, you should rein yourselves in Sparta and concentrate on the job at hand.

[Lucius Aerilius]

Update to OP:

The Network's Hunger remains... less than satisfied.

Its been fun meeting you on the field of battle so far MHA.

[Banksy]

Sparta, if you wanted all of your allies to be on the same side as you then you probably should have not joined XX. Everyone could see C&G and SF were going to end up on opposite sides of a war, it's not much of a surprise. The thing is, C&G were quite happy to sit back from this war, but when Fark pre-empted the NPO they were suddenly pulled into the thick of it. You made a dumb decision.

You tried playing politics with your XX bloc, and now you've been burnt because you didn't do a competent job. Just because you have a treaty does not mean that treaty will be followed if there is a conflict of interest. You've been lucky, since Karma you wedged yourself inbetween C&G and SF and didn't have to deal with conflicts. But when you tried to become a political power with XX, you didn't do the groundwork.

MCRABT is correct when he says you've clearly never been on the losing side, because this is what happens and you're spazzing out over an unavoidable situation.

[Krack]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1323822898' post='2877042']
Sparta, if you wanted all of your allies to be on the same side as you then you probably should have not joined XX. Everyone could see C&G and SF were going to end up on opposite sides of a war, it's not much of a surprise. The thing is, C&G were quite happy to sit back from this war, but when Fark pre-empted the NPO they were suddenly pulled into the thick of it. You made a dumb decision.

You tried playing politics with your XX bloc, and now you've been burnt because you didn't do a competent job. Just because you have a treaty does not mean that treaty will be followed if there is a conflict of interest. You've been lucky, since Karma you wedged yourself inbetween C&G and SF and didn't have to deal with conflicts. But when you tried to become a political power with XX, you didn't do the groundwork.

MCRABT is correct when he says you've clearly never been on the losing side, because this is what happens and you're spazzing out over an unavoidable situation.
[/quote]

He's right of course. You thought that because you had a huge alliance that it meant you were influential; it does not. You sat there while the other side geared up to beat the hell out of you and did nothing. The other side told you it was coming. People on your side told you it was coming. You made no effort - you crawled up in the fetal position and hoped they didn't beat you too badly. Now you're mad. You know how I know you did nothing? You're upset that [i]your treaty with ODN didn't protect you[/i]. That apparently was your gigantic protection plan.

Here's something that most alliances that have sat in the top spot figure out eventually ... if you can't figure out during the current war who the two sides are going to be next war and be certain you're on the bigger side, then at worst you've already lost and at best you are at the mercy of other alliances eventually asking you into the big team. This has been coming since Karma and has been obvious since about 10 minutes into the Karma War.

[Frederico Rodriguez]

At what point did Fark, Sparta, MHA etc. think they were going to strategically win this war? XX has been tactically beaten, no doubts about that.

Just don't play victim. You play the game that way, there's always the chance a more competent bloc will burn you for it.

[magicninja]

People in a losing war have to play the victim or else they are just playing loser. The victim tag at least implies they can squeeze some sympathy...

GATO has never,evereverever been that much of an aggressive alliance. You all know this. So for us to make a move against MHA like we did must show we felt we had good enough reason. If that isn't good enough for some of of you I don't know what to tell you.

[Trinite]

You'll notice none of us complaining in any of the DoWs on us, or any of the DoWs on our allies except this one. I think ODN knows why we're upset, and I'm beginning not to care if anyone else does, so I'm going to stop trying to explain it to you. This DoW ended a very good relationship, and that's very unfortunate.

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='Trinite' timestamp='1323826515' post='2877111']
You'll notice none of us complaining in any of the DoWs on us, or any of the DoWs on our allies except this one. I think ODN knows why we're upset, and I'm beginning not to care if anyone else does, so I'm going to stop trying to explain it to you. This DoW ended a very good relationship, and that's very unfortunate.
[/quote]

Unfortunate indeed. Good luck to Sparta in the future.

[Charles Stuart]

I'm amazed the treaty hasn't been cancelled yet. Grow some testicular fortitude already.

[Ayatollah Bromeini]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1323818179' post='2876987']
Sparta you can tell you have never been on the loosing end of a war.
[/quote]

/thread

This pretty much sums up all of my feelings on the matter.

[Lanore]

[quote name='Trinite' timestamp='1323826515' post='2877111']
You'll notice none of us complaining in any of the DoWs on us, or any of the DoWs on our allies except this one. I think ODN knows why we're upset, and I'm beginning not to care if anyone else does, so I'm going to stop trying to explain it to you. This DoW ended a very good relationship, and that's very unfortunate.
[/quote]
What exactly is Sparta so insanely upset with ODN for? If you should be mad at anyone it should be GATO for requesting assistance from CnG and chaining them in.

[unpronounced]

[quote name='Lanore' timestamp='1323830288' post='2877158']
What exactly is Sparta so insanely upset with ODN for? If you should be mad at anyone it should be GATO for requesting assistance from CnG and chaining them in.
[/quote]

No. They should be mad at people who sign MADP instead of just merge the alliances.

[Jgoods45]

Disregard haha

o/ODN

Edited December 14, 2011 by Jgoods45

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='unpronounced' timestamp='1323832446' post='2877187']
No. They should be mad at people who sign MADP instead of just merge the alliances.
[/quote]

Your suggestion has been taken into serious consideration but I must regretfully inform you that it has been rejected. My guess is that we don't really care about your opinion.

[Devilyn Caster]

[quote name='unpronounced' timestamp='1323832446' post='2877187']
No. They should be mad at people who sign MADP instead of just merge the alliances.
[/quote]

Because alliance culture and history is totally unimportant, we should just take your advice, thinking is for losers amirite?

[unpronounced]

[quote name='Devilyn Caster' timestamp='1323837679' post='2877278']
Because alliance culture and history is totally unimportant, we should just take your advice, thinking is for losers amirite?
[/quote]

Because alliance culture and history is important, (other) people signed MDoAP, to still have some sovereignty over their FA. But I now get that MDAP has its uses in certain situations, as an excuse: "I don't have control over my alliance's FA, because this article says my alliance must roll together with alliances X, Y, and Z although it will destroy my alliance's relation with alliance A."

[Banksy]

[quote name='Lanore' timestamp='1323830288' post='2877158']
What exactly is Sparta so insanely upset with ODN for? If you should be mad at anyone it should be GATO for requesting assistance from CnG and chaining them in.
[/quote]
They're angry because they've just realised they're not the centre of anyone's [s]universe[/s] treaty web.

[Frederico Rodriguez]

It's [s]funny[/s] sad, but it's true

[ccabal86]

This topic reminds me of this, lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWhpk-8QLFQ&ob=av3e

EDIT: Oh, btw go get 'em ODN!

o/

Edited December 14, 2011 by ccabal86

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1323824400' post='2877070']
He's right of course. You thought that because you had a huge alliance that it meant you were influential; it does not. You sat there while the other side geared up to beat the hell out of you and did nothing. The other side told you it was coming. People on your side told you it was coming. You made no effort - you crawled up in the fetal position and hoped they didn't beat you too badly. Now you're mad. You know how I know you did nothing? You're upset that [i]your treaty with ODN didn't protect you[/i]. That apparently was your gigantic protection plan.
[/quote]

This sums up my thoughts basically. Reading the Spartan rage in this topic has only confused me greatly. I thought you guys had fully come to terms with where Fark had already led you (with the NpO treaty), where SF was leading you (the NpO treaty, again) and eventually sealed your fate (with the preempt). To suddenly cry foul at ODN after so many mishaps is just poor form. You had plenty of opportunities to be a leader and control your destiny for months now and yet you willingly chose not to, and to see such complaints here is more than just a tad pathetic. Let's not worry about the straw man that there were an opportunity for CnG to enter the war on your behalf, because the Mutual Aggression aspect of CnG assured this wasn't plausible.


[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1323790949' post='2876566']
2 scenarios:

A C&G member attacked Polar. Fark activates its ODP. Would XX attack C&G? No.
A XX member attacked Pacifica. TLR activated its ODP. Did C&G attacked XX? Yes.
[/quote]

For this baseless assumption to hold, you need to believe CnG would make the mistake of hitting Polar. I cannot really imagine how this would have ever happened, then again, I never imagined Fark would "preempt" Pacifica either. For all your pointed rage at allies lately, you seem to have done little to hold the chief culprit responsible for the many failures of XX - Fark.

Edit - Grammar

Edited December 14, 2011 by Leet Guy