The Network Hungers

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Scorn' timestamp='1323654586' post='2874488']
Greetings oranges and orange fiends. Hmm, that sounds a bit wrong... Greetings oranges and the friends of oranges... less accurate but more politic. Delusions of Grandeur hereby declares war on the Orange Defense Network, the Global Alliance Treaty Organization, the Prolific Empire, Hooligans, The Foreign Division, _____ , _____ , ______ , ______ , ______ , and ______. I figure I can fill in the blanks later after everyone else arrives at the party. Delusions of Grandeur announced a protectorate agreement with the MHA recently and I am here to honor that agreement. I apologize for my tardiness I was taking care of an unwanted tech deal and I thank C&G for giving me a few days to get my declaration of war into the public record before Delusions of Grandeur was another in a long line of preemptive fronts in this current conflict.

I decided to make my declaration here for a few reasons. It is pertinent to ODN's topic, the last thing I want is another thread about some solo AA declaring war adding to the confusion of the OWF, and also because I will not be able to launch any attacks at the Orange Defense Network for a period of at least 7 days. ODN is high on my list to receive attention in the due course of the war. If your patience runs thin and you desire some action from my nation then I invite you to fill one of my defensive slots. Which is an offer I will also extend to TFD. You are a bit of a late comer, but I have you beat in that regard already.

[img]http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/composition/18167291/view/1/producttypecolor/1/type/png/width/280/height/280/delusions-of-grandeur-white-long-sleeve-aa-tee_design.png[/img]

I know it is traditional to sign these formal declarations, but if you look a little to the left you will find the author of this statement. Anybody else want a new long sleeve t-shirt with that sweet logo? I sure do.
[/quote]
...Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame.

[unpronounced]

o7 Commander! I still remember VPAS. MHA 5th Fleet. My first assignment.

Having fun out there, Scorn?

[Chaoshawk]

[quote name='Scorn' timestamp='1323654586' post='2874488']
Greetings oranges and orange fiends. Hmm, that sounds a bit wrong... Greetings oranges and the friends of oranges... less accurate but more politic. Delusions of Grandeur hereby declares war on the Orange Defense Network, the Global Alliance Treaty Organization, the Prolific Empire, Hooligans, The Foreign Division, _____ , _____ , ______ , ______ , ______ , and ______. I figure I can fill in the blanks later after everyone else arrives at the party. Delusions of Grandeur announced a protectorate agreement with the MHA recently and I am here to honor that agreement. I apologize for my tardiness I was taking care of an unwanted tech deal and I thank C&G for giving me a few days to get my declaration of war into the public record before Delusions of Grandeur was another in a long line of preemptive fronts in this current conflict.

I decided to make my declaration here for a few reasons. It is pertinent to ODN's topic, the last thing I want is another thread about some solo AA declaring war adding to the confusion of the OWF, and also because I will not be able to launch any attacks at the Orange Defense Network for a period of at least 7 days. ODN is high on my list to receive attention in the due course of the war. If your patience runs thin and you desire some action from my nation then I invite you to fill one of my defensive slots. Which is an offer I will also extend to TFD. You are a bit of a late comer, but I have you beat in that regard already.

[img]http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/composition/18167291/view/1/producttypecolor/1/type/png/width/280/height/280/delusions-of-grandeur-white-long-sleeve-aa-tee_design.png[/img]

I know it is traditional to sign these formal declarations, but if you look a little to the left you will find the author of this statement. Anybody else want a new long sleeve t-shirt with that sweet logo? I sure do.
[/quote]

I was expecting this the moment we launched our attacks on MHA. We'll feel less left out in the counters after the Apparatus decided to only give GATO attention.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Scorn' timestamp='1323654586' post='2874488']
Greetings oranges and orange fiends. Hmm, that sounds a bit wrong... Greetings oranges and the friends of oranges... less accurate but more politic. Delusions of Grandeur hereby declares war on the Orange Defense Network, the Global Alliance Treaty Organization, the Prolific Empire, Hooligans

[img]http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/composition/18167291/view/1/producttypecolor/1/type/png/width/280/height/280/delusions-of-grandeur-white-long-sleeve-aa-tee_design.png[/img]
[/quote]


I thought we were friends Scorn? Why have you betrayed me?

[Carabas]

o/ ODN!

[WorkingClassRuler]

MHAil Scorn o/

[FlogYou]

[quote name='WorkingClassRuler' timestamp='1323496995' post='2872029']
I'm sorry if you were under the impression this was an attempt at conversation about TOP.

It was not.

In fact, take it as read that none of my comments will ever be an attempt to start a conversation about or with TOP.
[/quote]


Well I got a christmas card with a towel on it, are you claiming it wasn't from you?

[Scorn]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1323673557' post='2874994']
Come at me bro.

No seriously.
[/quote]

I assume you were addressing Delusions of Grandeur. I can not make such a commitment now; several factors that I do not control prevent even the possibility in the present. The future holds many possibilities. Indeed, the fullness of time may present you with an opportunity to bring it yourself upon the nation of Arcane. Hmm... you were so fierce and terse and look how long winded I have become to a comment that may not even be directed towards me.

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1323677225' post='2875036']
...Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame.
[/quote]

Thank you. A most generous offer. Accepted.

[quote name='unpronounced' timestamp='1323712782' post='2875349']
o7 Commander! I still remember VPAS. MHA 5th Fleet. My first assignment.

Having fun out there, Scorn?
[/quote]

Indeed I am. To defend my protectorate brings me satisfaction. I would have preferred that those C&G villains had given the MHA more time to make a move in this ongoing war. Personally I support IRON and TOP in their quest for vengeance. It must be bittersweet for IRON to turn a blind eye to a few of their treaty partners to accomplish their long desired goal.

[quote name='Chaoshawk' timestamp='1323728218' post='2875670']
I was expecting this the moment we launched our attacks on MHA. We'll feel less left out in the counters after the Apparatus decided to only give GATO attention.
[/quote]

I mentioned the reason for my delay. I can't speak for the actions of others in the selective activation of treaties. I have always preferred the wars to get a bit complicated and for allies to defend allies. It seems to have longer lasting benefits then to do things for the sake of a coalition which is here today and gone just in time for the next war.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1323729225' post='2875688']
I thought we were friends Scorn? Why have you betrayed me?
[/quote]

It wouldn't be right to ignore one of my alliances dual obligations because of our previous interchanges. I will warn you now that if ANYONE declares war on either of my protectorates, I will be doing all in my power to fight against the enemies of MHA and FOK. I had to limit myself to two protectorates at this time so that I don't overextend my resources and also to limit the possibility of a Delusions of Grandeur civil war.

[King Louis the II]

So ODN attacks our ally in a war that initiated between Fark and NPO? So C&G having ODN-Sparta treaty, R&R-Int prefers to defend TLR ODP ally?

added: if we were defending Polar or even GOD/CSN I could understand. But you are throwing our long friendship through a window because TLR ODP with Pacifica! shame on you. shame on you.

I really liked and always expressed my respect for you ODN. It is very to sad to see how wrong I was. That was low and unexpected. Living and learning.

Edited December 13, 2011 by King Louis the II

[Sephiroth]

ODN response to Sparta getting dogpiled by a bunch of alliances, declare war on Sparta's other allies to make sure nobody can give Sparta a hand. I'm sure Sparta appreciates the assistance.

[King Louis the II]

Basically C&G decided that the ODP between TLR and Pacifica was more important than the MDoAPs between Sparta-ODN and TheINT-R&R.

I wish we were allied to FOK instead.

[Mandellav]

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1323783835' post='2876499']
Basically C&G decided that the ODP between TLR and Pacifica was more important than the MDoAPs between Sparta-ODN and TheINT-R&R.

I wish we were allied to FOK instead.
[/quote]

I love that we must qualify the value of an ODP over a MDoAP on this planet. It's like one is more expensive than the other and TLR/NPO got theirs on the cheap and it should be breaking down in the driveway. I forgot that ODPs are never supposed to be taken seriously. It's not like TLR respects and admires NPO at all and believes NPO would have done the same for it. We don't believe that at all. I mean, it's big bad NPO, right? I forgot, my bad. Pacifica is using us and put so much pressure on TLR to activate the ODP. Oh wait, that didn't happen at all. It turns out we are good allies with NPO and the feeling is mutual and FARK underestimated the value of that relationship.

FARK attacked NPO first with an attack citing multiple reasons rather than defending its ally in Polar from direct attacks. TLR supported NPO because we have a strong relationship with NPO and NPO deserves the best defense TLR can manage for it. If someone had attacked Sparta or RnR in this war early on, you can bet the house that TLR would have supported ODN and INT in defending Sparta. FARK did this to you, Spartans. Your MDoAP ally's decision to attack NPO did this to you. If you know anything about TLR, it's that TLR is going to defend its allies and the second a CnG signatory enters the war, CnG rolls together for the best defense of CnG. Every one of CnG's outside treaty partners is warned about that constantly so please channel your hatred toward your other terrible allies that made terrible FA decisions for the years that led to this moment.

I get that Sparta wanted to make sure its other MDoAP allies didn't get too hurt in this war. I understand that fully. But don't pretend for a second that MHA was going to stay neutral and not attack TLR or NG for hitting FARK. And guess what. TLR defends allies and would have defended NG and CnG would have been activated anyway. This preempt was a strategic offensive to defend CnG and the war effort.

Once again, those who try to play both sides got their feelings the most hurt. Maybe alliances should learn how to cancel treaties earlier to avoid mishaps like these. It's not like it is difficult to see how wars like this one will eventually turn out.

Also, here's an idea for the entire world:

If you don't want your MDoAP ally to come under attack from another MDoAP ally, then write that into the treaties. Otherwise, stop whining. Sacrifices need to be made in war and Sparta's recent decision to cancel on ODN over this just means that the ally Sparta is choosing, MHA, will receive even more damage that it was ever going to receive before. Your brash decision here actually was to the detriment of your bloated ally, Sparta.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1323783835' post='2876499']
Basically C&G decided that the ODP between TLR and Pacifica was more important than the MDoAPs between Sparta-ODN and TheINT-R&R.

I wish we were allied to FOK instead.
[/quote]

C&G is a Mutual Defense [B]AND[/b] Aggression bloc. So C&G [b]ALWAYS[/b] rolls together no matter what.

I thought this was pretty common knowledge.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Mandellav' timestamp='1323786589' post='2876511']
I love that we must qualify the value of an ODP over a MDoAP on this planet. It's like one is more expensive than the other and TLR/NPO got theirs on the cheap and it should be breaking down in the driveway. I forgot that ODPs are never supposed to be taken seriously. It's not like TLR respects and admires NPO at all and believes NPO would have done the same for it. We don't believe that at all. I mean, it's big bad NPO, right? I forgot, my bad. Pacifica is using us and put so much pressure on TLR to activate the ODP. Oh wait, that didn't happen at all. It turns out we are good allies with NPO and the feeling is mutual and FARK underestimated the value of that relationship.

FARK attacked NPO first with an attack citing multiple reasons rather than defending its ally in Polar from direct attacks. TLR supported NPO because we have a strong relationship with NPO and NPO deserves the best defense TLR can manage for it. If someone had attacked Sparta or RnR in this war early on, you can bet the house that TLR would have supported ODN and INT in defending Sparta. FARK did this to you, Spartans. Your MDoAP ally's decision to attack NPO did this to you. If you know anything about TLR, it's that TLR is going to defend its allies and the second a CnG signatory enters the war, CnG rolls together for the best defense of CnG. Every one of CnG's outside treaty partners is warned about that constantly so please channel your hatred toward your other terrible allies that made terrible FA decisions for the years that led to this moment.

I get that Sparta wanted to make sure its other MDoAP allies didn't get too hurt in this war. I understand that fully. But don't pretend for a second that MHA was going to stay neutral and not attack TLR or NG for hitting FARK. And guess what. TLR defends allies and would have defended NG and CnG would have been activated anyway. This preempt was a strategic offensive to defend CnG and the war effort.

Once again, those who try to play both sides got their feelings the most hurt. Maybe alliances should learn how to cancel treaties earlier to avoid mishaps like these. It's not like it is difficult to see how wars like this one will eventually turn out.

Also, here's an idea for the entire world:

If you don't want your MDoAP ally to come under attack from another MDoAP ally, then write that into the treaties. Otherwise, stop whining. Sacrifices need to be made in war and Sparta's recent decision to cancel on ODN over this just means that the ally Sparta is choosing, MHA, will receive even more damage that it was ever going to receive before. Your brash decision here actually was to the detriment of your bloated ally, Sparta.
[/quote]

I agree. We're all making sacrafices. Even Sparta's ally, MHA. .Its 2.3 mill NS MDoAP partner the Knights of Ni! was attacked by arguably the strongest alliance in the game and additionally, its ODP partner Umbrella for [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107388&st=0"]defending MHA against TPE.[/url]
I don't understand why Sparta just can't accept blatant kicks to the nuts and [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107474&st=0"]huge treaty jumps[/url] like MHA is.

[Lukapaka]

[quote name='Mandellav' timestamp='1323786589' post='2876511']
FARK attacked NPO first with an attack citing multiple reasons rather than defending its ally in Polar from direct attacks. TLR supported NPO because we have a strong relationship with NPO and NPO deserves the best defense TLR can manage for it. If someone had attacked Sparta or RnR in this war early on, you can bet the house that TLR would have supported ODN and INT in defending Sparta. FARK did this to you, Spartans. Your MDoAP ally's decision to attack NPO did this to you. If you know anything about TLR, it's that TLR is going to defend its allies and the second a CnG signatory enters the war, CnG rolls together for the best defense of CnG. Every one of CnG's outside treaty partners is warned about that constantly so please channel your hatred toward your other terrible allies that made terrible FA decisions for the years that led to this moment.
[/quote]

You can paint this as the result of Fark's decision all you'd like. C&G claims they would have preferred the neutral route, up until Fark's attack. However, before the attack, Os had already made it abundantly clear what side of the Polar conflict they would be fighting on when it came to blows. ODP/MDoAP/blocs... none of it mattered, because ODN was only willing to accept the activation of any treaty that didn't conflict with TLR/GATO/MK agenda. Hell, we could have been pre-empted day one and ODN would have sent an apology and explanation about why they weren't defending. ODN may feel justified in their attack on MHA, but to Sparta it's as bad as them rolling us.

[unpronounced]

[quote name='Mandellav' timestamp='1323786589' post='2876511']
....
[/quote]

Treaties, treaties, justification. What good are these treaties if a coalition war such as this one occur? I'd say every alliance should just go paperless and freely choose a side they want to support.

[Bush_84]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1323788146' post='2876519']
C&G is a Mutual Defense [B]AND[/b] Aggression bloc. So C&G [b]ALWAYS[/b] rolls together no matter what.

I thought this was pretty common knowledge.
[/quote]

So are you saying that all R&R and Sparta had to do was activate our treaties as all of C&G would have come to our defense or rode to war with us? If so we just made the mistake of a lifetime.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Bush_84' timestamp='1323788689' post='2876526']
So are you saying that all R&R and Sparta had to do was activate our treaties as all of C&G would have come to our defense or rode to war with us? If so we just made the mistake of a lifetime.
[/quote]

Hindsight is 20/20...
On a lot of things, for sure.

[Lukapaka]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1323788769' post='2876531']
Hindsight is 20/20...
On a lot of things, for sure.
[/quote]

Myth, Bush's question was rhetorical. I think his point is the same as mine. They were only willing to activate certain treaties, and yes, in the end C&G would roll together. My question is why does ODN sign treaties outside of C&G, if the only chains they're going to follow are TLR's?

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1323788975' post='2876534']
Myth, Bush's question was rhetorical. I think his point is the same as mine. They were only willing to activate certain treaties, and yes, in the end C&G would roll together. My question is why does ODN sign treaties outside of C&G, if the only chains they're going to follow are TLR's?
[/quote]

Sorry I thought my dripping sarcasm had carried over from the previous post.

My bad.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Bush_84' timestamp='1323788689' post='2876526']
So are you saying that all R&R and Sparta had to do was activate our treaties as all of C&G would have come to our defense or rode to war with us? If so we just made the mistake of a lifetime.
[/quote]

Your ally (Fark) initiated an aggressive war against a C&G treaty partner. TLR decided to defend that alliance and as such decided the path which the whole of C&G was to follow. So no, you would already have been too late to activate those treaties because your ally had already attacked one of their allies.

You see?

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='Mandellav' timestamp='1323786589' post='2876511']
I love that we must qualify the value of an ODP over a MDoAP on this planet. It's like one is more expensive than the other and TLR/NPO got theirs on the cheap and it should be breaking down in the driveway. I forgot that ODPs are never supposed to be taken seriously. It's not like TLR respects and admires NPO at all and believes NPO would have done the same for it. We don't believe that at all. I mean, it's big bad NPO, right? I forgot, my bad. Pacifica is using us and put so much pressure on TLR to activate the ODP. Oh wait, that didn't happen at all. It turns out we are good allies with NPO and the feeling is mutual and FARK underestimated the value of that relationship.

FARK attacked NPO first with an attack citing multiple reasons rather than defending its ally in Polar from direct attacks. TLR supported NPO because we have a strong relationship with NPO and NPO deserves the best defense TLR can manage for it. If someone had attacked Sparta or RnR in this war early on, you can bet the house that TLR would have supported ODN and INT in defending Sparta. FARK did this to you, Spartans. Your MDoAP ally's decision to attack NPO did this to you. If you know anything about TLR, it's that TLR is going to defend its allies and the second a CnG signatory enters the war, CnG rolls together for the best defense of CnG. Every one of CnG's outside treaty partners is warned about that constantly so please channel your hatred toward your other terrible allies that made terrible FA decisions for the years that led to this moment.

I get that Sparta wanted to make sure its other MDoAP allies didn't get too hurt in this war. I understand that fully. But don't pretend for a second that MHA was going to stay neutral and not attack TLR or NG for hitting FARK. And guess what. TLR defends allies and would have defended NG and CnG would have been activated anyway. This preempt was a strategic offensive to defend CnG and the war effort.

Once again, those who try to play both sides got their feelings the most hurt. Maybe alliances should learn how to cancel treaties earlier to avoid mishaps like these. It's not like it is difficult to see how wars like this one will eventually turn out.

Also, here's an idea for the entire world:

If you don't want your MDoAP ally to come under attack from another MDoAP ally, then write that into the treaties. Otherwise, stop whining. Sacrifices need to be made in war and Sparta's recent decision to cancel on ODN over this just means that the ally Sparta is choosing, MHA, will receive even more damage that it was ever going to receive before. Your brash decision here actually was to the detriment of your bloated ally, Sparta.
[/quote]



The Fark ODP with Polar brought many discussions in XX as you can imagine. One scenario that we discussed was if Polar was attacked by C&G (despite the fact that TOP would be thousand times more likely).

One thing it was clear was that Fark should not activate a OPTIONAL treaty that will make XX fight against a bloc (C&G) who we have 2 MDoAP partners.

You know what, this is exactly what you did.

It would be the same as ODN attacking Polar and we allowing Fark activate its ODP and we fighting against C&G.

Edited December 13, 2011 by King Louis the II

[Lukapaka]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1323789134' post='2876539']
Your ally (Fark) initiated an aggressive war against a C&G treaty partner. TLR decided to defend that alliance and as such decided the path which the whole of C&G was to follow. So no, you would already have been too late to activate those treaties because your ally had already attacked one of their allies.

You see?
[/quote]

But Johnny, the decision was made before Fark's pre-empt. Os didn't know where they would be fighting, but he knew it wouldn't be with us. Activating C&G was never an option, the moment TOP rolled Polar.

Edit: Basically the exact same thing as with Umbrella. Except you guys hit an ODP partner instead of a blocmate, so not quite as frustrating, but equally unloyal.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Lukapaka

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1323789134' post='2876539']
Your ally (Fark) initiated an aggressive war against a C&G treaty partner. TLR decided to defend that alliance and as such decided the path which the whole of C&G was to follow. So no, you would already have been too late to activate those treaties because your ally had already attacked one of their allies.

You see?
[/quote]

So if GATO attacked Polar, and Fark activated its OPTIONAL treaty, Sparta should feel free to declare on International as RnR on ODN?

wow.


added: Nordreich and DT were mad at us when we attacked Nueva Vida (their ally) when we all had an ODP through NOIR. We actually apologized to both of them and recognized that it was not a cool thing to do. To me ODN's action is way worst than that.

Edited December 13, 2011 by King Louis the II

[IYIyTh]

I like how people are now pretending like Fark wasn't totally set up beforehand and/or that the NPO hadn't declared their intent (and had they not, that they would anyway,) to enter the war.
It's a shame because a bunch of people are now pissing on what used to be very close ties while those responsible are getting out relatively unscathed.

I hope one day they pay, dearly.