Official announcement from the Legion

[Lord Boris]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1320059983' post='2835616']
[color="#0000FF"]If you would like to continue to believe that NSO has ever said such a thing, beyond the ill informed boasting of a few members (if even that much), then be my guest. But NSO has never said that it could win on its own against Legion. A sub-3 mil NS alliance, with most of it in the lower tier, would never stand a chance against an alliance twice its size. All NSO has ever said is that we would do disproportional damage compared to what we take. That much we have done, and more.[/color]
[/quote]

When you are the smaller group, it's much easier to do "disproportional damage". Turtle, declare and nuke upwards if necessary, and hit as many targets as you can. They can eat more nukes per day than the small group can.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1320028264' post='2835429']
Well, there was this one time when we jumped in to a war that one of our allies had chosen to declare, aggressively, for reasons that many people found to be dubious. We were one of the first (the first?) allies to support them on the field, and we endured nearly a week of fighting with little support before they agreed to peace. Unfortunately, they hadn't bothered to tell anyone they were agreeing to peace, and so we ended up being stuck fighting for a few more weeks for absolutely zero reason. Which alliance was that again?
[/quote]

The way I remember it is that you guys refused to peace out with Fark because you weren't 'losing' and ended up keeping other people on the battlefield for no reason other than your pride. Quite similar to now.

Pride does come before the fall, fair warning.

[quote name='Wabooz' timestamp='1320041425' post='2835580']
I wouldn't doubt it but words are wind. Many taunts fly around here that are meaningless. Now if the Emperor said this then you'd be onto something but it was prolly Krunk
[/quote]

It was Chron, iirc.

[quote name='Tiber Septim' timestamp='1320058160' post='2835612']
I could VERY easily say the same thing about Polar who seem to be posting for Legion at this point. Puppet masters? I think yes. Yet more proof that RV is always right.
[/quote]

Tyga said it better, but I just want to reiterate that there are 3 polar people posting (Merger, Fallen Fool, and Random) and 6 Legionnaires (Myself, Sabcat, Flonker, the Rebel, DanDesade, Xineoph).

Also, one NAAC (johnathan buck), 1 VE (WarriorConcept), 1 Valhallan (CH), 1 FoK (timeline), 2 STAs (Pez and Tyga), 2 DTs (Wu tang and Doch), 3 NsOs(RV, Varianz, Wabooz), 1 tetris guy posting (USMC123).


[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1320064458' post='2835637']
I agree that NSO has never said that they, alone, could beat Legion.

NSO has, however, said that they and Tetris could do so.
[/quote]

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Lord Boris' timestamp='1320069836' post='2835653']
When you are the smaller group, it's much easier to do "disproportional damage". Turtle, declare and nuke upwards if necessary, and hit as many targets as you can. They can eat more nukes per day than the small group can.
[/quote]

Moreso than that, the disproportional damage is coming from their large nations that have been beaten down but still have all their improvements/wonders, and are doing well against our newer people.

[DanDesade]

[quote name='Lord Boris' timestamp='1320069836' post='2835653']
When you are the smaller group, it's much easier to do "disproportional damage". Turtle, declare and nuke upwards if necessary, and hit as many targets as you can. They can eat more nukes per day than the small group can.
[/quote]

tbh, we're actually make that tactic a whole lot easier for them when you look at our war declarations over the past few days as compared to theirs. still, time will tell.

[url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=The Legion&anyallexact=exact"]war declarations[/url]

Edited October 31, 2011 by DanDesade

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320070120' post='2835656']
2 DTs (Wu tang and Doch)
[/quote]

I'm not in DT...

[D34th]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1320059983' post='2835616']
[color="#0000FF"]If you would like to continue to believe that NSO has ever said such a thing, beyond the ill informed boasting of a few members (if even that much), then be my guest. But NSO has never said that it could win on its own against Legion. A sub-3 mil NS alliance, with most of it in the lower tier, would never stand a chance against an alliance twice its size. All NSO has ever said is that we would do disproportional damage compared to what we take. That much we have done, and more.[/color]
[/quote]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1309625358' post='2746933']
[color="#0000FF"]While wrecking NSO isn't exactly much of a feat, as others have done it before, [b]I sincerely doubt that it is within Legion's capacities to even swat a fly.[/b][/color]
[/quote]

Are you still in doubt of Legion capacity?

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1320070609' post='2835660']
I'm not in DT...
[/quote]
Insinuating that Wu Tang is still in DT may be a valid CB. We're having our e-lawyers look this over.

In other news, Sir William is spot on.

[quote]Surely you jest, but their hubris - the same hubris that they accuse NSO of - may very well be what screws the pooch.[/quote]

That's not a threat. It's just obvious. Leaving people with little or no wriggle room will increase the likelihood of conflict and increase the intensity of existing conflicts.

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Jacapo Saladin' timestamp='1320045866' post='2835586']
So you have managed to go from pre-war boasting that NSO could take out Legion by yourselves to mid to end war trying to belittle and shoulder blame to your coalition mates as an excuse to hide your less than satisfactory performance.
[/quote]Rather amusing, isn't it?

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1320069639' post='2835651']Surely you jest, but their hubris - the same hubris that they accuse NSO of - may very well be what screws the pooch.[/quote]Asking for the enemy to surrender when you have the upper hand isn't hubris.

Escalating a war simply so your ego won't have to take a little bruising, on the other hand, quite clearly is.

[stockhunter]

Congrats legion!

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1320071895' post='2835668']
Insinuating that Wu Tang is still in DT may be a valid CB. We're having our e-lawyers look this over.

In other news, Sir William is spot on.



That's not a threat. It's just obvious. Leaving people with little or no wriggle room will increase the likelihood of conflict and increase the intensity of existing conflicts.
[/quote]

How is Legion exhibiting hubris? Hahaha. What? By offering white peace with the stipulation that the force accepting it has been defeated? How is that Hubris?
Dictating terms from a disadvantaged point (see NSO,) would be considered Hubris. Or extracting large sums of reps (or reps at all,) for Tetris' aggressive actions against Legion. None of that has occurred.

What has occurred, quite humerously, is that the formerly "incompetent," Legion is somehow being told they are oppressing hostile forces who sought to harm it by offering them white peace. How dare you, Legion!

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1320072172' post='2835669']
Asking for the enemy to surrender when you have the upper hand isn't hubris.
[/quote]

It is when you're in a glaringly obvious geopolitically weak position.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320073146' post='2835673']
How is Legion exhibiting hubris?
[/quote]

I would direct you to many of their responses in this thread - notably a couple of Sabcat's from pages ago.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1320072172' post='2835669']
Asking for the enemy to surrender when you have the upper hand isn't hubris.

Escalating a war simply so your ego won't have to take a little bruising, on the other hand, quite clearly is.
[/quote]


[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320073146' post='2835673']
How is Legion exhibiting hubris? Hahaha. What? By offering white peace with the stipulation that the force accepting it has been defeated? How is that Hubris?
Dictating terms from a disadvantaged point (see NSO,) would be considered Hubris. Or extracting large sums of reps (or reps at all,) for Tetris' aggressive actions against Legion. None of that has occurred.

What has occurred, quite humerously, is that the formerly "incompetent," Legion is somehow being told they are oppressing hostile forces who sought to harm it by offering them white peace. How dare you, Legion!
[/quote]

I'd have to agree with both these guys. Legion is being very fair in its demands, just because it is in a weaker position on the web does not make it any less true.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1320072172' post='2835669']
Rather amusing, isn't it?

Asking for the enemy to surrender when you have the upper hand isn't hubris.

Escalating a war simply so your ego won't have to take a little bruising, on the other hand, quite clearly is.
[/quote]

Perhaps then the solution to the "problem" of how to end this flustercluck is for the following to happen:

1. Legion grants white peace to all parties, save for Tetris, who admits that it made a mistake and will not repeat it and will maintain a policy of respect toward Legion in the future.
2. In the same announcement, Legion declares victory in its war, that it accepts Tetris' acknowledgement of wrongdoing, and wishes to move on to better relations in the future.

We're done. NSO can claim to have won the Grey Cup and the Stanley Cup for all the world cares. We, the greater Planet Bob community, know who won what and to what lengths that NSO was willing to put on knee pads in front of their allies in order to get out of saying the "S" word.

Hell, I'll write the OP.

[MeltedLazerz]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1320059983' post='2835616']
[color="#0000FF"]If you would like to continue to believe that NSO has ever said such a thing, beyond the ill informed boasting of a few members (if even that much), then be my guest. But NSO has never said that it could win on its own against Legion. A sub-3 mil NS alliance, with most of it in the lower tier, would never stand a chance against an alliance twice its size. All NSO has ever said is that we would do [b]disproportional damage[/b] compared to what we take. That much we have done, and more.[/color]
[/quote]

[quote name='Gopherbashi' timestamp='1319943015' post='2834835']
[font=Courier New]
[color=orange]•[/color] [url=http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=The Legion][color=purple]The Legion[/color][/url]: 18.11 --> 17.84 ([color=red]-0.27[/color]) / [b][u]-28.4% cumulative[/u][/b]

---------------

[color=blue]•[/color] [url=http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=New Sith Order][color=gray]New Sith Order[/color][/url]: 6.02 --> 6.16 ([color=green]+0.14[/color]) / [b][u]-47.0% cumulative[/u][/b]
[/font]
[/quote]

[quote]2) [b]-374,925[/b] Strength Change - New Sith Order

3) [b]-353,428[/b] Strength Change - The Legion [/quote]

...you were saying? and don't give that "oh the Legion is bigger, it makes sense that they're doing more damage blah blah blah" crap. More Legion nations means more nations to soak up damage. Basically, over the past week the average NSO has been taking over [i]twice[/i] the damage that the average Legion nation has. (note: disregard NSO's +0.14 score, that's due to Drai re-joining the AA)

[Silent Spectre]

[quote name='Krashnaia' timestamp='1320066167' post='2835641']
Well, laughing at NSO and Rebel Virgina was already a running gag around here. The fact that they got !@#$%* slapped by Legion, of all people, makes them even funnier.
[/quote]

QFT


[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1320074309' post='2835679']
I'd have to agree with both these guys. Legion is being very fair in its demands, just because it is in a weaker position on the web does not make it any less true.
[/quote]

Yeah I would have to agree. When you say, look, we can end this, all you have to do is say we beat you (thus what surrender means anyway), and you say no... it does look bad on you. Granted, I understand pride not wanting to accept losing to LOLegion, but still. IMO, if NSO wants to try and act all big and bad while losing.. forget white peace... just ZI them all.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320074399' post='2835680']
Perhaps then the solution to the "problem" of how to end this flustercluck is for the following to happen:

1. Legion grants white peace to all parties, save for Tetris, who admits that it made a mistake and will not repeat it and will maintain a policy of respect toward Legion in the future.
2. In the same announcement, Legion declares victory in its war, that it accepts Tetris' acknowledgement of wrongdoing, and wishes to move on to better relations in the future.

We're done. NSO can claim to have won the Grey Cup and the Stanley Cup for all the world cares. We, the greater Planet Bob community, know who won what and to what lengths that NSO was willing to put on knee pads in front of their allies in order to get out of saying the "S" word.

Hell, I'll write the OP.
[/quote]

ChairmanHal IS an award winning problem solver. I like it.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320074399' post='2835680']
Perhaps then the solution to the "problem" of how to end this flustercluck is for the following to happen:

1. Legion grants white peace to all parties, save for Tetris, who admits that it made a mistake and will not repeat it and will maintain a policy of respect toward Legion in the future.
2. In the same announcement, Legion declares victory in its war, that it accepts Tetris' acknowledgement of wrongdoing, and wishes to move on to better relations in the future.

We're done. NSO can claim to have won the Grey Cup and the Stanley Cup for all the world cares. We, the greater Planet Bob community, know who won what and to what lengths that NSO was willing to put on knee pads in front of their allies in order to get out of saying the "S" word.

Hell, I'll write the OP.
[/quote]

Why should Legion be forced to accommodate NSO?

[Silent Spectre]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1320074679' post='2835683']
ChairmanHal IS an award winning problem solver. I like it.
[/quote]

Knowing NSO they will call in their allies to help save their pride, and that will do nothing for them.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1320074679' post='2835683']
ChairmanHal IS an award winning problem solver. I like it.
[/quote]

I almost thought Delta praised Hal.

Well done.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1320074789' post='2835686']
I almost thought Delta praised Hal.

Well done.
[/quote]



My day is complete.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1320074309' post='2835679']
Legion is being very fair in its demands, just because it is in a weaker position on the web does not make it any less true.
[/quote]

The opposing viewpoint isn't that The Legion being in a weaker position on the web makes its demands unfair, it's that continuing to insist on anything other than white peace seems overly confident given the possible consequences (escalation).

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1320074082' post='2835675']
It is when you're in a glaringly obvious geopolitically weak position.
[/quote]

So you're saying that The Legion should be paying NSO reps for NSO declaring war on it? Because it was attacked by NSO for defending itself against the aggressive and hostile action of its ally Tetris? Nevermind the fact that both in the months prior had spared no effort to go out of their way in provoking the Legion in hopes they would attack them... it is suddenly now Legion's problem that NSO doesn't want to accept white peace because NSO would leverage treaties that aren't active due to NSO supporting Tetris' aggressive actions?

I know people would love for this to expand, but, there are afar more easier routes available.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1320074082' post='2835675']
I would direct you to many of their responses in this thread - notably a couple of Sabcat's from pages ago.
[/quote]
Since when have non-government posts about an alliance being happy that it is crushing a foe who had for months before publicly chided them been taken as an entire alliance forcing unconditional surrender or alliance-wide hubris?

Yet we're talking about one person. In spite of all of NSO's talk in the past and Tetris' actions. I'm surprised there aren't more Legionnaires expressing their happiness over the current position they are in. If anything, they've been quiet.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1320075085' post='2835688']
The opposing viewpoint isn't that The Legion being in a weaker position on the web makes its demands unfair, it's that continuing to insist on anything other than white peace seems overly confident given the possible consequences (escalation).
[/quote]


Well, that's why I'm respecting Legion a bit more now. If NSO's allies wish to bandwagon in just so NSO won't have to admit their defeat that is their prerogative.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320075140' post='2835689']
So you're saying that The Legion should be paying NSO reps for NSO declaring war on it? Because it was attacked by NSO for defending itself against the aggressive and hostile action of its ally Tetris? Nevermind the fact that both in the months prior had spared no effort to go out of their way in provoking the Legion in hopes they would attack them... it is suddenly now Legion's problem that NSO doesn't want to accept white peace because NSO would leverage treaties that aren't active due to NSO supporting Tetris' aggressive actions?

I know people would love for this to expand, but, there are afar more easier routes available.[/quote]
There are, indeed, easier routes available. Legion can accept a white peace and Tetris' apology, confident in its numerical victory. ChairmanHal made a very sensible proposal.

Do not be dense, Myth. Nobody is saying Legion should be paying reparations to NSO. However, if Legion keeps asking for more than their political hand allows them, it is going to backfire one day or another. Times are tense.

[SirWilliam]

IYIyTh, I said or insinuated literally none of that.

(Did you even read what I said or were you merely coming up with some of the more ridiculous questions you could off the top of your head?)

Perhaps if I were to provide some context we could avoid the baseless conclusions. The Legion has long been a ridiculed alliance (whether that's warranted or not is another matter altogether). Many of their responses in this thread (and yes, I cited one person, the only name I could remember, but my perception is based on the sum of posts I've seen) - those about NSO being incompetent, needing to disband, etc - are interesting given that they've also been levied against The Legion through the years. Given this historical context, in addition to The Legion's aforementioned weak geopolitical position, I feel very justified when I say I perceive hubris.

All I was saying, nothing more, nothing less.

Edited October 31, 2011 by SirWilliam