flak attack Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1300053132' post='2663370'] Ivan, can you please be in charge of NPO again? Just so the parts of the OWF that aren't going "BAWWWWWWW, WHERE'S MY APOLOGY BECAUSE NPO IS SO MEAN AND STUFF AND I HATE TACOS AND BAWWWWWWWWW" soil themselves as well? [/quote] Considering Ivan's latest attempt at leading an alliance, I'm not too worried about having him lead NPO. It would save us the effort of running NPO into the ground ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkV Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Dan100' timestamp='1300052696' post='2663358'] This topic is an apology to FAN I don't see anything about surrending [/quote] That's the problem, make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='PinkV' timestamp='1300056985' post='2663426'] That's the problem, make it happen. [/quote] Not going to happen. I still have bombs to deliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1300053912' post='2663388'] This is long overdue and very sincere. I said during Karma myself I disagreed with policies of PZI or keeping any person down for over 2 years time in warfare, [/quote] That was a very tough time to take such a stance, I applaud your bravery. I know most people may have called you crazy at the time and in such an atmosphere, but history has proven you right. Bravo. Edited March 13, 2011 by Sandwich Controversy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkV Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Although an enemy of NPO, I have to say I appreciate NPO for this if it is sincere. Fighting a war doesn't mean we have to become barbarians, gentlemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299994261' post='2662469'] Why do you think this whole coalition has left FAN alone? We all know that that war was deserved. It's why not one of us has touched them. [/quote] I would say it probably has to do with fears that a certain large aqua alliance might take offense to it. Probably fears about others too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1300058189' post='2663445'] I would say it probably has to do with fears that a certain large aqua alliance might take offense to it. Probably fears about others too. [/quote] Or perhaps it's their large number of nuclear nations in the low ranks? In any case, FAN attacked their ally, so staying out because they feel the war is justified is pretty damn dishonourable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300052927' post='2663366'] Don't deflect, its part of the problem. Shifting blame to people who are not under discussion won't help you, in fact its a great example. All the people you'd like to blame made the proper FA outreaches to defuse most (if not all) of the grudges they might have picked up, while NPO took the stance of just sitting in a corner. Just because it is your history does not mean you can dismiss it with a hand wave. [/quote] Deflect? What the hell? Look, I can understand the rationale behind the argument "if you work harder at making friends, less people will want to attack you", but laying the responsibility at Doomhouse's feet [b]for their own actions[/b] is not "deflecting". It is not "shifting the blame". It's a very simple principle of each alliance being responsible for their own conduct. Certainly, there are cases where there can be overlap. There are cases where the act of one person can provoke another to act against them, and depending on how you judge the specifics, might give that first party some responsibility. But this is not one of those cases. Quite literally, what we are being criticized is a [i]lack of action[/i]. And certainly, we are responsible for our policies. You can, if you want, label them a mistake and claim they allowed this course of action - and I can understand the logic behind that. But implying that our failure to stop Doomhouse gunning for us somehow removes the responsibility for their actions from them and places it on us is the worst kind of case of victim blaming I have ever seen. And its really troubling that I see it coming again and again. What, is our bad image a provocation in itself? Is "You have a bad reputation and you haven't done enough to correct it, so it's your fault we are going to attack you now" really how things are going to be from now on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 The reaction of MK members in this thread are hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1300058529' post='2663452'] Or perhaps it's their large number of nuclear nations in the low ranks? In any case, FAN attacked their ally, so staying out because they feel the war is justified is pretty damn dishonourable. [/quote] NEW agrees wholeheartedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm glad to see this finally happen. Policy should have been changed a long time ago, but better late than never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 So has FAN accepted this apology, or even responded? All I've seen are a bunch of dumbass posts from people who this matter doesn't even relate to blowing their tops off and just wasting valuable space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ty345 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='PinkV' timestamp='1300057679' post='2663438'] Although an enemy of NPO, I have to say I appreciate NPO for this if it is sincere. Fighting a war doesn't mean we have to become barbarians, gentlemen. [/quote] Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1300047757' post='2663268'] You're absolutely correct. Which makes this see-through apology even funnier.[b] What did you hope to accomplish with this?[/b] Split FAN and Nordreich from Doomhouse, perhaps? It's laughably desperate. [/quote] So basically you only say sorry when you have a goal in mind? If it doesn't benefit you then saying sorry is not an option?, thanks for clarifying that. Our only reason for making this apology is because it is deserved, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Scott Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Oh hey, "alleged violations". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1300058730' post='2663455'] Deflect? What the hell? Look, I can understand the rationale behind the argument "if you work harder at making friends, less people will want to attack you", but laying the responsibility at Doomhouse's feet [b]for their own actions[/b] is not "deflecting". It is not "shifting the blame". It's a very simple principle of each alliance being responsible for their own conduct. Certainly, there are cases where there can be overlap. There are cases where the act of one person can provoke another to act against them, and depending on how you judge the specifics, might give that first party some responsibility. But this is not one of those cases. Quite literally, what we are being criticized is a [i]lack of action[/i]. And certainly, we are responsible for our policies. You can, if you want, label them a mistake and claim they allowed this course of action - and I can understand the logic behind that. But implying that our failure to stop Doomhouse gunning for us somehow removes the responsibility for their actions from them and places it on us is the worst kind of case of victim blaming I have ever seen. And its really troubling that I see it coming again and again. What, is our bad image a provocation in itself? Is "You have a bad reputation and you haven't done enough to correct it, so it's your fault we are going to attack you now" really how things are going to be from now on? [/quote] My mistake, thought you meant the ex-continuum alliances who aren't held up as boogey men the way NPO is. Minor confusion. My comment on deflection and shifting the blame was in relation to that. That was why I went to the example, people aren't lining up around the bloc gunning for say, Sparta, like they are NPO. This difference in perception is NPO's fault, though of course responsibility for declaring war will always rest with the declaring party. To put it more simply, no its not your fault DH attacked you. It is however your fault they wanted to. [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1300060423' post='2663526'] So basically you only say sorry when you have a goal in mind? If it doesn't benefit you then saying sorry is not an option?, thanks for clarifying that. [/quote] The NPO? Yea I'd say that's pretty much expected behavior. If GATO came out and apologized for something they'd done, I'd be pretty likely to believe them. They don't have a reputation of being cynical manipulative !@#$%^&* like the NPO has been building for years. Tell us again how GW1 ended, NPO's word is next to worthless, it has been for years. NPO has demonstrated repeatedly in the past that its word is only good for as long as its expedient for you to keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan100 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='PinkV' timestamp='1300056985' post='2663426'] That's the problem, make it happen. [/quote] How said that your going to win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan100 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300063716' post='2663727'] My mistake, thought you meant the ex-continuum alliances who aren't held up as boogey men the way NPO is. Minor confusion. My comment on deflection and shifting the blame was in relation to that. That was why I went to the example, people aren't lining up around the bloc gunning for say, Sparta, like they are NPO. This difference in perception is NPO's fault, though of course responsibility for declaring war will always rest with the declaring party. To put it more simply, no its not your fault DH attacked you. It is however your fault they wanted to. The NPO? Yea I'd say that's pretty much expected behavior. If GATO came out and apologized for something they'd done, I'd be pretty likely to believe them. They don't have a reputation of being cynical manipulative !@#$%^&* like the NPO has been building for years. Tell us again how GW1 ended, NPO's word is next to worthless, it has been for years. NPO has demonstrated repeatedly in the past that its word is only good for as long as its expedient for you to keep it. [/quote] Dude your not perfect As Baka said, say what you want because this is a apology an FAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkV Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Dan100' timestamp='1300064487' post='2663769'] How said that your going to win? [/quote] NpO and RoK just surrendered. I give Pacifica another two weeks tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 No shame in apologizing for mistakes of the past. Good show, Pacifica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Dan100' timestamp='1300064696' post='2663779'] As Baka said, [b]say what you want[/b] because this is a apology an FAN [/quote] Will do, champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cager Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300065474' post='2663800'] Will do, champ. [/quote] Haven't we already been doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300063716' post='2663727'] To put it more simply, no its not your fault DH attacked you. It is however your fault they wanted to. [/quote] Presumably that is because the NPO Mind Control Lasers were mistuned and made Doomhouse members want to attack them. (wtf... People control their own desires. It's never anyone else's fault if I want to do something. It's because I want to do it. I have this thing called free will, you should learn about it sometime.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Cager' timestamp='1300065597' post='2663805'] Haven't we already been doing this? [/quote] I dare say we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havamil Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 An apology is nice, but words are cheap. It will be interesting to see if the actions go with the words/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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