TypoNinja Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='hawk_11' timestamp='1300001927' post='2662666'] Typo, once again I'm going to have to call you out for your uncharacteristic posting, like the first time I quoted you in this thread which went ignored. There wasn't a drop of hatred in that post. I would know, I wrote it. What happened to the Typo I knew? [/quote] While I wouldn't characterize your mislabeling of the circumstances of Mask's departure as hatred, the fact that you still bothered to characterize it as removal (Seriously they are our protectorate, you think we wouldn't have talked to them about their departure condition?) when she (and many others resigned together to form Misfits) it did remind me of a consistent Pacifican behavior. The tendency to demonize anybody who has the audacity to ever leave the glorious NPO. And to always blame the ones leaving. As for characteristic posting, I Calls em like I sees em. I've always done so. Years ago we were still on the same side, now we are not. Perhaps my posting was more palatable when it agreed with your position? Edited March 13, 2011 by TypoNinja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskofblue Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='hawk_11' timestamp='1300001927' post='2662666'] I'm going to plug the radio show which has been linked numerous times: Cortath did try to reach out to FAN. We did try for actual change. [/quote] He gave some appearance of it sometimes, yes. However, firstly, it is worth noting, all he sent FAN were words. Words cost the NPO nothing but are an easy way to try to build political capital and demonstrate change. If the NPO were really interested in change, why not create the apology then? Second, the appearance of change counts for little when the expressed policy is to fake the appearance of change to gain breathing room to rebuild, rearm, and regain the dominant position in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskofblue Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1300002113' post='2662673'] What is wrong with any of that? They shouldn't exist because they play to win? The only thing NPO needed to ever have changed is the [s]game[/s]world-killing tactics and terms. If you expect otherwise than perhaps [url="http://pbskids.org/teletubbies/teletubbyland.html"]you have entered[/url] the wrong URL. [/quote] My post stands without any need for a built in moral judgment. The point was not that it is immoral to, in your words, play to win, but rather that when everything you do is a calculated political maneuver to expand your power base to destroy your opposition, firstly, future actions are likely going to be operating under the same MO, and, secondly, your conciliatory actions are going to be seen in the same light as your past ones, that is to say, insincere political scheming because that is, in all probability, precisely what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeAvenger Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) The apology smells of old people and cheese. Edited March 13, 2011 by OrangeAvenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Well, talk about telegraphing your punches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1299998763' post='2662592'] I know and I care. I still somewhat hold it against the NPO government of those days for not doing more to reign in the NpO government of those days, and maybe get them to back off the disbandment bender. They left GOONS to rot, something which still does not sit well with me. [/quote] So, evil when we stick our noses into another alliance's affairs and still evil when we don't? Take it up with polar, actually why not take it up with VE? They were involved in the war that led to the disbandment of GOONS too as I am sure you remember. Or do past grudges only apply to NPO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Meh, years too late. Good first step, but there needs to be a lot more done for us to see this as being sufficient for the 2 years of war you put them through. And it wasn't just 2 years of war, it was constant insults, and you used every opportunity to bait them into coming out and fighting on your terms. Now the tables are turned, and you see what its like now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasuda Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 The OP may be the greatest post I have seen in my time here. Simply amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feuersturm Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1299990102' post='2662352'] "Now that you have the upper hand, we'd love to be your friends, after you stop beating us up." What a convenient stance to take for someone in their position. [/quote] And people wonder why we hesitated to mend bridges after Karma. Good show NPO, I did not expect this! Edited March 13, 2011 by Feuersturm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialCubanacan Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I wait to see what the official reply from Federation of Armed Nations is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I still believe exactly what I did before. We will not see if NPO have changed or not until the time they actually get into a position of power again. The constant mentioning of the other alliances that was part of the vietfan war is a bit silly since fan themselves have already said that all alliances except for pacifica has come to them to make amends. The NPO posters in this thread do make one good point though. The apology is for FAN and it's up to them to assess its worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Black Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1299997091' post='2662537'] Yes, and behind closed doors the leadership of NPO said that they needed to pretend to change so the world would leave them alone long enough for bloody retribution. At no point in history has NPO expressed any sympathy, remorse, or regret for what happened with FAN. In the beginning it was a calculated move for their own power. In the months and years that followed, they continued to do everything in their power to strangle the life out of them. It wasn't until the majority of the world united against them and through overwhelming force of arms hauled them off of FAN that they even stopped. Now, in the middle of a bad situation, one they need political capital and peace desperately, they issue an apology? How can any of you sit there with a straight face and pretend this is anything other than a contrived political maneuver made for reasons more related to self-preservation than sincere contrition? Let's be real here, the NPO advanced in the game by ruthlessly maneuvering themselves into positions of power using anyone and anything at their disposal to do so. Each time they were forced to make a concession, the moment they regained the upper hand, they either took it back ten times over or rewrote history to claim it never happened. Look no further than their last apology, which they retracted as soon as they had the force behind them to do so. This policy has served them well, historically, until Karma. However, the net result is that they are never sorry for anything they do, only the consequences of it. Their only sincerity lies in their drive to conquest and to destroy their enemies. The only thing more vacuous than an NPO apology is one who accepts it as genuine. [/quote] I find it interesting that your alliance consists of most of the members from this time that you speak of, the NPO now isn't the NPO of old, the members are different as is the leadership. Who really needs to be punished for the actions of old, the alliance, or the individuals responsible for the actions. Its interesting that many posts can be found where you openly supported those actions, before you start calling the kettle black, look in the mirror for the ones responsible. Because before you start tying the lynches or sharpening the blade maybe you need to look very closely at who will be hanging or beheaded by them. Edited March 13, 2011 by Muddog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithis Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I give this thread two fart noises and a dismissive wank. Public apologies do go a long way, though hopefully FAN's nose is good enough to smell how terrible this thing reeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 You know reading this thread it's almost as if people think the apology was for them, or something. How self-centered. Besides, this is the behavior so many of you wanted from the NPO, so be happy. NPO could pass out free candy to everyone and someone would accuse them of hatching a plan to eat people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandroff Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300001575' post='2662654'] The consistent and irrational hate aimed at everybody who's ever left NPO is also a great indicator of Pacifician Character to the rest of us. [/quote] Everyone? Most certainly not. We don't exactly get along with those that immediately turn around and chastise us for the things they supported not X days/weeks/months ago, though. I get along quite well with most ex-members that stay away from doing that. Edited March 13, 2011 by Gandroff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300001575' post='2662654'] Given that kind of public image, whats easier to believe? [/quote] Even the most cursory examination of what goes on in this board would reveal that what is "easier to believe" tends to be whatever suits the believer's present political interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIEIXIAIS Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Good luck to NPO. I hope her and her allies achieve peace soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Charge Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1299999429' post='2662612'] Honestly, this thread is exactly why NPO didn't try to use "diplomacy" to "learn their lesson." Most of you just won't care. You just won't admit it. [/quote] This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1300004192' post='2662716'] NPO could pass out free candy to everyone and someone would accuse them of hatching a plan to eat people. [/quote] But considering our well-known diet, wouldn't giving out candy... oh, I see what you did there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk11 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1300002569' post='2662684'] My post stands without any need for a built in moral judgment. The point was not that it is immoral to, in your words, play to win, but rather that when everything you do is a calculated political maneuver to expand your power base to destroy your opposition, firstly, future actions are likely going to be operating under the same MO, and, secondly, your conciliatory actions are going to be seen in the same light as your past ones, that is to say, insincere political scheming because that is, in all probability, precisely what they are. [/quote] I can't logically dispute any of what you just typed. It's a smart post; hell, it's a post that sounds like it's written by a past imperial officer. Unfortunately sometimes people do things that aren't logical, like publicly apologize to their opponents in the middle of a war for misgivings in the past. Which is what we're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1300004231' post='2662720'] Even the most cursory examination of what goes on in this board would reveal that what is "easier to believe" tends to be whatever suits the believer's present political interests. [/quote] That was kind of my point. NPO never made an effort to change preconceptions. I never said it was fair, but its what you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandroff Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1300002874' post='2662692'] Meh, years too late. Good first step, but there needs to be a lot more done for us to see this as being sufficient for the 2 years of war you put them through. And it wasn't just 2 years of war, it was constant insults, and you used every opportunity to bait them into coming out and fighting on your terms. Now the tables are turned, and you see what its like now. [/quote] That's the thing, it doesn't matter what you think. This specific topic is a show of good faith for the apology between us and FAN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300004451' post='2662725'] That was kind of my point. NPO never made an effort to change preconceptions. I never said it was fair, but its what you have. [/quote] But our efforts have little impact on said political interests. And in areas where those political interests do not exist, our efforts have been far more successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHG Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1299995062' post='2662491'] I like to think we've made our judgement on "new" NPO. [/quote] The executioner speaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Salovega VI Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [b]The Tale of Three Alliances[/b] Alliance A and Alliance B mercilessly attack Alliance C. Time and history marches on and Alliance C gains a position of influence. Alliance A and Alliance B communicate their desires to Alliance C for a rapproachement. Alliance A is unified and consistent in their approach and eventually persuades even the most diehard foe in Alliance A of their sincerity. The approach of Alliance B is schizophrenic. They initially talk a good game but later Alliance B attacks Alliance C in quazi-official public organs. Further communications in Alliance B's embassy forums can only be described a vulgar, disgusting and ill bred. Foreign Affairs officers of Alliance C are verbally assaulted, vilified, threatened and then refused entrance to Alliance B's embassy forums. Even the most trusting members of Alliance C are put off when Alliance B accuses them of being incapable of forgiving. All this (and far more) from an alliance that insists that they have changed and really just wants to make nice-nice. The moral of the story is that one should beware of an apology from Brutus even if his dagger is dull and broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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