I slapped my girl, she called the feds

[Trigger]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1298309175' post='2640725']
Wrong. RoK attacked an alliance that they knew was skilled at war and that they knew had an upper-tier advantage. You weren't "cherry-picked" or "jumped". It would be shocking if you [b]weren't[/b] winning handily by now.

I swear, PC has this martyr complex thing down to a science. They even try to find ways to apply it when winning.
[/quote]
If Rok had come in by themselves then your argument might hold water... they didn't. They came with several others... with a considerate nation and NS advantage. Don't even pretend they thought they were entering a losing proposition. That's not in Rok's nature.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Trigger' timestamp='1298308994' post='2640723']
Obtuse? Try not to hurt yourself. Rok is only fighting PC... an alliance that had already been through a couple rounds of nuclear war. Rok tried to jump PC along with some of their Ragnablok friends as well as STA and at least one other I believe. Rok thought they were cherry picking. Rok was wrong. Now Rok is BAAAAWing. You can't use the "sides" argument when you aren't fighting a side... just us. Hurts... doesn't it.
[/quote]

This makes so little sense it shocks me. Have you ever heard of a treaty? When our ally gets attacked, we defend them. Even if we're going to get torn into shreds.

Oh wait, I doubt you [b]do[/b] know about a treaty. When your ally gets attacked? You jump ship because the odds aren't in your favor.

Trot out your land like your all professional or something. Like you've actually achieved something. Maybe it gives you a little satisfaction, and maybe it pretends to fill that hole in your hearts where honor is supposed to be.

[citizenkane]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1298309897' post='2640735']
This makes so little sense it shocks me. Have you ever heard of a treaty? When our ally gets attacked, we defend them. Even if we're going to get torn into shreds.

Oh wait, I doubt you [b]do[/b] know about a treaty. When your ally gets attacked? You jump ship because the odds aren't in your favor.

Trot out your land like your all professional or something. Like you've actually achieved something. Maybe it gives you a little satisfaction, and maybe it pretends to fill that hole in your hearts where honor is supposed to be.
[/quote]

You're running out of straws to clutch.

[Stewie]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1298309897' post='2640735']
This makes so little sense it shocks me. Have you ever heard of a treaty? When our ally gets attacked, we defend them. Even if we're going to get torn into shreds.

Oh wait, I doubt you [b]do[/b] know about a treaty. When your ally gets attacked? You jump ship because the odds aren't in your favor.

Trot out your land like your all professional or something. Like you've actually achieved something. Maybe it gives you a little satisfaction, and maybe it pretends to fill that hole in your hearts where honor is supposed to be.
[/quote]

When NEW was attacked ZOOMZOOMZOOM (the guy who has more land than the entire of ROK put together) left Poison Clan. He fought FOR NEW, he lost land, infra and tech in that conflict, then came back to PC to help defend us against ROK.

That man has Honor

That man is who this thread is about.

[Tautology]

When you have as much land as zoom does, you can graze a lot of cattle.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1298310201' post='2640740']
When NEW was attacked ZOOMZOOMZOOM (the guy who has more land than the entire of ROK put together) left Poison Clan. He fought FOR NEW, he lost land, infra and tech in that conflict, then came back to PC to help defend us against ROK.

That man has Honor

That man is who this thread is about.
[/quote]
Whose flag is on top of the announcement? Who did I reply to? Who am I replying to now? That card isn't gonna work, son.

Also, 1 honorable man does not make an honorable alliance. Regardless of how much land he has.

[raasaa]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1298310201' post='2640740']
When NEW was attacked ZOOMZOOMZOOM (the guy who has more land than the entire of ROK put together) left Poison Clan. He fought FOR NEW, he lost land, infra and tech in that conflict, then came back to PC to help defend us against ROK.

That man has Honor

That man is who this thread is about.
[/quote]
Are you being sarcastic ?? If not, your statement dont make sense :S

You are portraying him as a war monger who goes against his gov's decision just for the sake of fighting and accumulating land through wars :S

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1298311487' post='2640757']
Are you being sarcastic ?? If not, your statement dont make sense :S

You are portraying him as a war monger who goes against his gov's decision just for the sake of fighting and accumulating land through wars :S
[/quote]

Most don't accumulate land when facing 15k tech powered nukes and 6 opponents, but the great and mighty zoomzoomzoom finds ways.

Land is the end all be all and I [b]will[/b] collect it all. Just need to get that big orange pig out of the way first...

[Stewie]

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1298311487' post='2640757']
Are you being sarcastic ?? If not, your statement dont make sense :S

You are portraying him as a war monger who goes against his gov's decision just for the sake of fighting and accumulating land through wars :S
[/quote]

He was our 2nd in command at the time and decided to fight alongside his allies in NEW.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1298309175' post='2640725']
Wrong. RoK attacked an alliance that they knew was skilled at war and that they knew had an upper-tier advantage. You weren't "cherry-picked" or "jumped". It would be shocking if you [b]weren't[/b] winning handily by now.

I swear, PC has this martyr complex thing down to a science. They even try to find ways to apply it when winning.
[/quote]

Actually, most active rok members on irc seem to be under the impression they're winning. As of this moment, they do hold a serious advantage over our lower tier, yet our members remain free to declare aggressive wars because they're not staggered or filled to the brim with defensive wars.


EDIT:

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1298309175' post='2640725']
Wrong. RoK attacked an alliance that they knew was skilled at war and that they knew had an upper-tier advantage. You weren't "cherry-picked" or "jumped". It would be shocking if you [b]weren't[/b] winning handily by now.

I swear, PC has this martyr complex thing down to a science. They even try to find ways to apply it when winning.
[/quote]

Actually, most active rok members on irc seem to be under the impression they're winning. As of this moment, they do hold a serious advantage over our lower tier, yet our members remain free to declare aggressive wars because they're not staggered or filled to the brim with defensive wars.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Zoomzoomzoom

[Vespassianus]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1298303260' post='2640634']
I'm so glad you guys fled from fighting FARK so you could have really large land counts.

o/
o/
o/
[/quote]

RoK, PC, MK and iFOK guys can debate about war, it's cool, they are all fighting hard and defending allies. But who gave voice to an MCXA member when the topic is about war? You left a war after 7 days because your ally had too many peace mode nations...

Also OP made me to look for more raids, my citizens demands more land.

[TwistedRebelDB47]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1298308886' post='2640720']
Oh silly me, I must have missed the part where PC actually fought on NEW's behalf...
[/quote]

Defending NEW by official Poison Clan declaration would have spun off a global nuclear war that had no positive results. The question isn't "are the odds against Poison Clan" - because we made it clear in BiPolar that if we can convince our allies to stay out, we'll go to hell for the one that's hit unfairly. Even then, FOK came riding in (And who didn't that was an ally of \m/? Oh right - Ragnarok). The question was "what are the odds for our allies" - because we [b]could not[/b] keep our loyal allies out. I learned first hand that winning a war is about timing and plead to NEW to listen with no success. So those of us who were willing joined ranks with our brothers from Indonesian mothers and gave Fark's top tier hell. Go ahead and ask them how much fun they had. Apparently so much they had to call in reinforcements!

And before one of you calls timing "cowardly," go speak to one of your alliance leaders on war planning.

Those same "iNEW" soldiers returned to Poison Clan and were the first nations to declare on Polaris. Then we got hit by STA, followed by by Ragnarok (and whoever the other little satellites were - who cares). Despite hitting an alliance already in anarchy, RoK allowed our wars to expire and we were able to turn our full focus onto RoK with our own aggressive declarations and the results are telling - a once 5 million NS alliance with twice our membership has a lower NS and score than Poison Clan now. Give it a couple days.. how many RoK nations do you think you'll find above 40k NS?

All that matters to me is this:

Four alliances ditched Poison Clan once upon a time and one extorted us on !@#$%^&* allegations.

1. The Phoenix Federation - Karma
2. Valhalla - BiPolar
3. Ragnarok - Whatever this war is called

4. GGA and MA - Disbandment

Don't. $%&@. With. Us.

[raasaa]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1298312041' post='2640764']
Most don't accumulate land when facing 15k tech powered nukes and 6 opponents, but the great and mighty zoomzoomzoom finds ways.

Land is the end all be all and I [b]will[/b] collect it all. Just need to get that big orange pig out of the way first...
[/quote]
Your missing the point, i am NOT arguing whether what you did was/is right or wrong....nor am i bothered about your desire to accumulate land. just pointing out to stewie that the way he is presenting it is absurd


Edit : typo

Edited February 21, 2011 by raasaa

[raasaa]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1298312078' post='2640766']
He was our 2nd in command at the time and decided to fight alongside his allies in NEW.
[/quote]
thats even worse.....being the 2nd in command, he orders the alliance to stand down but he runs over to fight for NEW :S

[citizenkane]

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1298313566' post='2640790']
thats even worse.....being the 2nd in command, he orders the alliance to stand down but he runs over to fight for NEW :S
[/quote]

Dude.. he posted his resignation.

Poison Clan does not hold members in the AA if there is a war going on; that breaks the basics of nation rights; to do so is restricting the freedoms of that nation.

Are you saying that you'd force your member to stay in the same situation?

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1298313566' post='2640790']
thats even worse.....being the 2nd in command, he orders the alliance to stand down but he runs over to fight for NEW :S
[/quote]

I issued no orders. That just wouldn't make sense.

Besides, I much prefer my new position at the Ministry of Land.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Zoomzoomzoom

[KaitlinK]

[quote name='Trigger' timestamp='1298309859' post='2640733']
Don't even pretend they thought they were entering a losing proposition. That's not in Rok's nature.
[/quote]

Okay right up until this point I was fine just watching this thread an chuckling to myself...

First of all I believe in every category (except member count) you had us beat nuke counts, nuclear nations ect. Which is fantastic and something you should be exceptionally proud of.
I don't know why you were selected to be RoK's target but it sure as hell was not for an easy win. In fact not one person with two cells to rub together had any delusion that we were going to come out of this as anything other than beaten, and you know what we didn't care, still don't actually. We consider the fact we entered a war to defend an ally something pretty damn impressive and totally part of our nature.
So please by all means post how your kicking ass but lets keep the commentary based in reality shall we?

Oh and Stewie you were one of my favorite opponents thus far thanks for the ZI man! I will look at my new ribbon and think of you fondly

[Monster]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1298301952' post='2640621']
Poison Clan doesn't know how to read a war screen.

I'm pretty sure that Ragnarok knew what they were getting into when they declared. You'd think that PC would simply respectfully tip their hat and call it admirable, but no ... they are going to make snide comments and create topics that reek of insecurity.

You're better off ignoring them. Trust me, eventually they just fade away.
[/quote]

It's actually been more annoying than admirable.

[Stewie]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1298315557' post='2640815']
I issued no orders. That just wouldn't make sense.

Besides, I much prefer my new position at the Ministry of Land.
[/quote]

Oh Mighty Zoom, what are your plans for securing land for us poor Minnower nations...

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='TwistedRebelDB47' timestamp='1298313192' post='2640780'](And who didn't that was an ally of \m/? Oh right - Ragnarok).[/quote]

So, you propose that we attack an ally? Seriously? That is what you're going with? We're a poor ally that is afraid of war because ... we wouldn't attack another ally?

[quote]All that matters to me is this:

Four alliances ditched Poison Clan once upon a time and one extorted us on !@#$%^&* allegations.

1. The Phoenix Federation - Karma
2. Valhalla - BiPolar
3. Ragnarok - Whatever this war is called

4. GGA and MA - Disbandment

Don't. $%&@. With. Us.[/quote]

And all that matters to me is this:

1. Poison Clan were dropped for clashing with multiple allies and not just TPF. It was a tough decision to make, but it was the right one. At the time you guys went out of your way to anger people and we got sick of being brought into joint channels about it in regard to TPF, NPO, TTK, and GOD (several times) ...
2. Poison Clan can't just man up and accept that they were canceled on for good reason and have cried about it for two years. You weren't thrown to the wolves nor were you abandoned. We parted ways and it wasn't even dramatic at the time. I'm not sure why you used it as some sort of internal rallying cry to keep PC going, but you did what you had to do I guess.
3. You yourself admitted that PC was out of control at the time, but mostly seemed to blame it on greenacres ... who wasn't even in the alliance anymore.

Stop. Trying. To re-write. History.

Edit: It is also important to note that we dropped you for the exact same reason given for PC's cancellation on NEW.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Van Hoo III

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1298317541' post='2640846']
Oh Mighty Zoom, what are your plans for securing land for us poor Minnower nations...
[/quote]

I shall hunt down alliances with less than 50 members minimum and spread their links far and wide for all the landless children of the world to terrorize!

[Believland]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1298319367' post='2640874']
I shall hunt down alliances with less than 50 members minimum and spread their links far and wide for all the landless children of the world to terrorize!
[/quote]

Give one to me too.

[berbers]

[quote name='TwistedRebelDB47' timestamp='1298313192' post='2640780']
Defending NEW by official Poison Clan declaration would have spun off a global nuclear war that had no positive results. [/quote]

Read: Bawwww, the odds aren't stacked so we don't go.

Edit: RoK jumped into a losing war on behalf of an ally, by itself. You did not.

Agree, disagree, e-lawyer, don't e-lawyer, RoK has balls the size of canteloupes and yours have retreated up inside where it's safe and warm.

o/ RoK

Edited February 21, 2011 by berbers

[Monster]

Also take into consideration the fact that Fark is allied to iFOK. Basically, your argument is this: PC and iFOK didn't support NEW in a war they wanted(ignored all the warnings in the DF disbandment announcement) when such a war would have them opposing the vast majority of their allies and that is really bad. I guess opposing the vast majority of their allies was what Ragnarok ended up doing, but it wasn't a smart move in the short term and the long term really given their lossses.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[citizenkane]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1298321316' post='2640907']
Read: Bawwww, the odds aren't stacked so we don't go.
[/quote]

Read: this argument has been used and argued against so many times it's unreal.

PC didnt engage Fark because there would have been no point in doing so, it would have put our other allies in a harsh position. RoK, however, went totally against their supposed 'side' of the treaty web and attacked an alliance which would otherwise now be engaged in supporting their OTHER allies, such as Umbrella / GOONS / VE in their fight against NPO/NpO.

RoK would also be supporting their superfriends allies, such as CSN, against DT if they hadnt chosen to hit PC.

Instead of looking at the bigger picture here, RoK has chosen to take this opportunity to settle some imagined personal vendetta that their government has against PC.

Stop.trying.to.re-write.history