To the Allies of the New Pacific Order

[Chickenzilla]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1296437590' post='2611796']
I wonder the same thing.
[/quote]
I's funny because he's on your side.

[D34th]

[quote name='Chickenzilla' timestamp='1296455670' post='2612571']
I's funny because he's on your side.
[/quote]

First, he is fighting alongside NPO who has their own side, and guess what? Isn't my side, I'm fighting against VE. Two unrelated wars = four sides.

Second, even if he was on my side, I missed your point. When he questions the strategy just shows that he isn't privy of the information neither he is part of the decision making process, may be that's why he is pissed.

Edited January 31, 2011 by D34th

[auto98]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1296420439' post='2611437']
Really?

So let's look at the numbers. You attack the the weakest alliance in the Doom House coalition, GOONS, an alliance with a staggering 13k ANS and 900 nukes but you leave the two biggest alliances (Umbrella and MK) who have 90k ANS/2000 nukes and 50k ANS/3000 nukes respectively, the ones that will do the most damage to the NPO (the alliance you swore to protect), virtually untouched? Why?

You wonder why everyone considers your side to be a side composed of paper tigers. This is why. I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say, is this the best you guys can do?
[/quote]

Aside from the lack of tactical knowledge this post shows, are you seriously calling people for declaring lots of NS against a smaller NS? Where was the equivalent post from you when DH declared on NPO?

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1296421199' post='2611454']
The best they can do and what they choose to do may or may not be the the same thing, only time will tell.
[/quote]So are they...choosing to be awful?


[quote name='Dr.Gamer' timestamp='1296423122' post='2611503']
So by your logic, crippling the war-machine by going after the weakest link is wrong? The sheer difference of strength, DM vs NPO (Alone) was massive. Are you mad that people are able to shrug off old grudges and help allies?
[/quote]Our war machine isn't what you'd call "crippled".

[Earogema]

[quote name='auto98' timestamp='1296469877' post='2612814']
Aside from the lack of tactical knowledge this post shows, are you seriously calling people for declaring lots of NS against a smaller NS? Where was the equivalent post from you when DH declared on NPO?
[/quote]
He thinks they're cowards (maybe not cowards but opportunists perhaps) too as far as I can tell. He's probably the only person making this kind of post because he honestly thinks we have a just cause and should defend NPO.

He was also against the original VE attack on NpO as far as I can tell.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Earogema

[Letum]

[quote name='auto98' timestamp='1296469877' post='2612814']
Aside from the lack of tactical knowledge this post shows, are you seriously calling people for declaring lots of NS against a smaller NS? Where was the equivalent post from you when DH declared on NPO?
[/quote]

CN rule number 1021: If(Attacker/Defender>= 2,If(Attacker=Ally,Claim good strategy,Accuse of Cowardice),Say Nothing)

[Hydro]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1296420439' post='2611437']
Really?

So let's look at the numbers. You attack the the weakest alliance in the Doom House coalition, GOONS, an alliance with a staggering 13k ANS and 900 nukes but you leave the two biggest alliances (Umbrella and MK) who have 90k ANS/2000 nukes and 50k ANS/3000 nukes respectively, the ones that will do the most damage to the NPO (the alliance you swore to protect), virtually untouched? Why?

You wonder why everyone considers [b]your side[/b] to be a side composed of paper tigers. This is why. I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say, is this the best you guys can do?
[/quote]

What side? This is little more then a glorified curbstomp of one of the larger alliances in game. You make it out to sound as if you're fighting some grand coalition, but the simple answer is that you are not. NPO was never able to gather an actual base around it after Karma, aside from a few small, choice alliances, which realistically should go to show how powerless they have since become.

edit: ah right, 2 glorified curbstomps at once, my bad

Edited January 31, 2011 by Hydro

[Vespassianus]

Actually if all NPO allies (and their allies like TOOL, ML, maybe Echelon, NADC, VA, Death before Dishonor, the uncountered NATO, Phoenix Rising, some purple etc. i didn't look at the treaty and alliance list, s i could be wrong) would attack with full force they could cause a big surprise and they could have made a heavy fight, but they beleived the "we are superior" tale from MK and Umb and gave up the fight before it could start. This peace mode stuff is maybe good in short term to avoid damage, but in long term it won't save you.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Vespassianus

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1296471748' post='2612838']
What side? This is little more then a glorified curbstomp of one of the larger alliances in game. You make it out to sound as if you're fighting some grand coalition, but the simple answer is that you are not. NPO was never able to gather an actual base around it after Karma, aside from a few small, choice alliances, which realistically should go to show how powerless they have since become.

edit: ah right, 2 glorified curbstomps at once, my bad
[/quote]NPO's side had 2mil NS on us as of the day the !@#$sphere massed on GOONS.

Whenever MK's in a war, it has to be a curbstomp. Fight a defensive war against TOP, taking the hits from the greatest upper tier in the game's history and holding out long enough to force a surrender? Curbstomp. Fight on the smaller side of a war and win because the other side abandons its lower tiers? Curbstomp. If MK wins, it has to be because it had three times as many nations as the opposition, it certainly couldn't be because they're a strong, effective alliance, because that would be ridiculous.

[Timeline]

Mr Damsky

I am so glad you are active, if not for you I am sure I would be front runner for the village idiot.

Lets see.

Attack MK that brings TOP in that's not very smart

so what will more then likely happen is, they beat GOONs down, (trust me NPO can hold MK, Umb and FAN, look who they held in Karma) then move to fan, by that time MK and Umb will already be half beaten and then will start begging for support from TOP and the rest of PB.

as it stands right now if the sides did not change NPO would wipe the floor with those they face.

[MrMuz]

It's done this way so that they only have to pay reps to GOONS once this is over. Nobody wants to give Umbrella or MK any more tech than they already have

It would be funny if GOONS turned this around and then rightly claim that they defeated 12 alliances in their first PB war.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1296473907' post='2612859']
Mr Damsky

I am so glad you are active, if not for you I am sure I would be front runner for the village idiot.

Lets see.

Attack MK that brings TOP in that's not very smart

so what will more then likely happen is, they beat GOONs down, (trust me NPO can hold MK, Umb and FAN, look who they held in Karma) then move to fan, by that time MK and Umb will already be half beaten and then will start begging for support from TOP and the rest of PB.

as it stands right now if the sides did not change NPO would wipe the floor with those they face.
[/quote]

As if MK wouldn't ghost DoW and bring in TOP if TOP wanted in. Not that they don't want in but TOP isn't a good alliance to attack these guys because of the upper tier being in peace mode.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1296424148' post='2611535']
They could have easily gotten their nations to 50k ANS (MK's ANS) within a year. Alliances do it all the time.
[/quote]
BAPS is the only alliance that I know of to have nations hit 50K within a year after beatdown, and they were all donation sellers.

You think TPF is an alliance comprised solely of donation sellers?

[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1296434262' post='2611749']
And the thing is, we'll be able to constantly fill the lower-tier nations with aid because our large nations won't be in peacemode.
[/quote]
I keep on seeing this argument.

You'd think we had everyone over 10K in dove. Look, 30K nations are fully capable of banking.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1296433901' post='2611739']
That could conceivably happen with MK and Umbrella, but not so with GOONS. Sure, some are getting overwhelmed (not surprising given the numbers and given the fact many are newer to this game and are thus inexperienced), but the majority are having the most fun they've had since they've started playing.
[/quote]
We'll see if you still feel this way in 2012.

[MrMuz]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296476691' post='2612890']
You'd think we had everyone over 10K in dove. Look, 30K nations are fully capable of banking.
[/quote]

Ha, 30K NS banks, really? If you actually have them, please tell me how well that worked out.

[Captain Enema]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1296427279' post='2611619']
It's pretty obvious to me that they knew they couldn't win so they did the next best thing, damage GOONS as much as possible.
[/quote]

All the more reason to tech raid after the war. Rebuilding through villainy and all.

[Letum]

[quote name='Vespassianus' timestamp='1296472353' post='2612843']
Actually if all NPO allies (and their allies like TOOL, ML, maybe Echelon, NADC, VA, Death before Dishonor, the uncountered NATO, Phoenix Rising, some purple etc. i didn't look at the treaty and alliance list, s i could be wrong) would attack with full force they could cause a big surprise and they could have made a heavy fight, but they beleived the "we are superior" tale from MK and Umb and gave up the fight before it could start. This peace mode stuff is maybe good in short term to avoid damage, but in long term it won't save you.
[/quote]

Yeah, only NPO has allies. It's not like Doomhouse has a ton of allies that are completely un-engaged or only doing light fighting, that would be called on at the slightest sign of things going hard.


[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1296477934' post='2612913']
Ha, 30K NS banks, really? If you actually have them, please tell me how well that worked out.
[/quote]

A nation generally hits the point where they make enough money to send out full slots of aid in the mid 4k's of infra. A nation with 30,000ish NS getting to 5-6k infra is not hard, though they may be slightly underteched. The only hard part is making sure they can fight a war and send out money at the same time, but if you outnumber your enemy that shouldn't be too big of an issue.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Letum

[Vespassianus]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296478693' post='2612922']
Yeah, only NPO has allies. It's not like Doomhouse has a ton of allies that are completely un-engaged or only doing light fighting, that would be called on at the slightest sign of things going hard.

[/quote]

Tons of allies who are uninvolved? I can see only TOP+some of their mates. I could be wrong altough, but i still look at NATO, NoR and GDA who aren't countered yet so if you consider this maybe PB side doesn't have so big advantage as you imagine...

[Letum]

[quote name='Vespassianus' timestamp='1296479481' post='2612931']
Tons of allies who are uninvolved? I can see only TOP+some of their mates. I could be wrong altough, but i still look at NATO, NoR and GDA who aren't countered yet so if you consider this maybe PB side doesn't have so big advantage as you imagine...
[/quote]

TOP and Argent may be the main ones uninvolved, but if you look at who has capacity to spare from the Polar war, you have quite a number of alliances. MHA, ODN and athens are all fighting opponents that are quite a bit smaller/have a lot of other people hitting them. By contrast, NATO, though not "countered", is facing a front 5 times its NS. Even with all the other alliances fighting alongside it, the level of support it can spare is minimal. And Nordreich? I am not quite sure what kind of treaty chain you see that makes them our allies...

Certainly, it's a fairly even war and we stand a good chance. But the notion that if we bring all our allies in swinging at full force we can score an immediate decisive blow is a bit naive.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1296454027' post='2612509']
It may be difficult for an incompetent alliance to rebuild to build a decent upper-middle tier in the space of a year. And to be fair to most alliances, including most of NPO's, are incompetent. But it's not impossible or overly difficult by any means. Especially if you're starting with nations who have a decent number of wonders.
[/quote]

Things are a lot different for a 150 member alliance than they are a 500+ member alliance. I don't even think you could compare the rebuilding process. Sure the processes are all the same but the logistics is where the problem is.

I suppose after the reps were paid that they could have gone the GOONS route and used their decimated nations for tech dealing to their upper nations and then when the time came they could have outsourced tech deals for the lower nations, thus basically declaring war on the tech market. Especially if they would have set up tech exclusivity deals with certain alliances.

But the fact remains, it's a lot easier to rebuild a 150 man alliance than it is a 500 man alliance. And the fact their opponents were growing at about twice the rate of them anyways due to the reps doesn't help either.

[Vespassianus]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296480456' post='2612941']
TOP and Argent may be the main ones uninvolved, but if you look at who has capacity to spare from the Polar war, you have quite a number of alliances. MHA, ODN and athens are all fighting opponents that are quite a bit smaller/have a lot of other people hitting them. By contrast, NATO, though not "countered", is facing a front 5 times its NS. Even with all the other alliances fighting alongside it, the level of support it can spare is minimal. And Nordreich? I am not quite sure what kind of treaty chain you see that makes them our allies...

Certainly, it's a fairly even war and we stand a good chance. But the notion that if we bring all our allies in swinging at full force we can score an immediate decisive blow is a bit naive.
[/quote]

Well Arg is fighting against STA if you want to be correct. I didn't say that you could win (you have no chance) but you could have a close and hard fight, not just a "please don't hurt my infra, i'm in peace mode but i send my noobs against you" fight. MHA is quite busy with Aztec, ODN has MCXA and small blues, Athens fight with lots of small alliances too. NATO has a fairly easy fight, they don't have so many defensive wars and their only enemy is Sparta who is involved in war heavily. NoR isn't your direct ally, but WF now really need some help against them and to take down NoR you need some firepower, not just a bunch of small-mid alliances so anyone who hit NoR can't attack you.

I think with a full strike you would have better chances because now you lost a war without trying to win.

[Mathias]

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1296422989' post='2611496']
Why does anybody think these sort of idiotic callout threads will actually bring about some meaningful change from the other side? Or, if you don't think they will, why make them?
[/quote]

Look at who wrote the OP and you'll have your answer.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Mathias

[Letum]

[quote name='Vespassianus' timestamp='1296480984' post='2612945']
I didn't say that you could win (you have no chance) but you could have a close and hard fight
[/quote]

How about you all judge our strategy and chances of success after this war is over, rather than at the point where you have no idea what we are thinking.

Of course, if Doomhouse is bothered by it, they can always do something about it.

[Lord Caspian]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1296481051' post='2612946']
Look at who wrote the OP and you'll have your answer.
[/quote]

I was surprised nobody brought this up sooner... I'm into character assassinations, but really Damsky? Just drop the attention-seeking

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296476691' post='2612890']
You'd think we had everyone over 10K in dove. Look, 30K nations are fully capable of banking.
[/quote]

Your legions of 30k and below NS banks will be the saving grace of you guys yet.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296476691' post='2612890']
We'll see if you still feel this way in 2012.
[/quote]

Bring it?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1296477934' post='2612913']
Ha, 30K NS banks, really? If you actually have them, please tell me how well that worked out.
[/quote]
Any properly-configured nation with 5K infra is fully capable of putting out 18M every 10 days, which is the limit of what a bank can do (barring FACs).

For the mathematically challenged, 5K infra is 15K NS. Yes there are normally other things, like land, tech and mil which get slapped on there, but you don't need 20K tech to bank.

And frankly, a wondered-up nation with less than 5K infra (of which we have a few, thanks to you guys hitting us repeatedly) is quite capable of banking as well.