Response to Rebel Virginia's False Accusations

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1295749135' post='2592742']
Of course you just believe in what you want right? Typical.
[/quote]

Funny since I made the exact same point aimed at your side in the post you quoted. Nice to see it went straight over your head.

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1295751230' post='2592778']
I'm sure y'all will get around to disproving RV real soon right? Because so far all VE and co have done is admit to and post logs confirming RV's story.
[/quote]

We did, in this thread. Your side is just desperately attempting not to notice because its inconvenient for you.


[quote]
Who started that fateful chat anyway? Who contacted who?
[/quote]

Step away from the tin foil my good man. Down that road lies madness.

This was of course a Master Plan(TM) By TOP, who manipulated Lennox from beyond the grave, to return, start a chat with Daj, and then with the use of their patented mind control ray [i]forced[/i] Daj into suggesting VE in a private convo with Lennox, all for a chance to get revenge on Polar for BiPolar. I mean its so obvious right? Polar couldn't possible be responsible for any of their own actions, its all evil manipulations from outside forces!

Edited January 23, 2011 by TypoNinja

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295748534' post='2592731']
I hadn't noticed, I'd guess timezones, IRC clients typically log in local time.
[/quote]
Which timezone do you live in that is 48 hours behind all the others? Odd.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295748534' post='2592731']
The 'material' posted by RV proves nothing, it is largely lies and misrepresentation, easily dis-proven at that, the fact that you belive them simply proves your ignorance, or that you are more interested in preaching from a political platform rather than anything related to the facts of the case.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Actually, my material has shown you to be lying. You initially claimed it was not a set up, and the Lennox had simply confessed after he obtained the war chest information (which you claimed to have been available to all members of VE, but now clearly shown to be given to him by Impero) from your forum. I won't waste my time and attempt to dig through past posts by VE members, but I am sure someone else who has plenty of time won't mind demonstrating how significantly your story has changed since my post.[/color]

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1295755803' post='2592873']
Which timezone do you live in that is 48 hours behind all the others? Odd.
[/quote]

You've heard of parallel dimensions, right? It's a parallel timezone, just like the others, but shifted 3.2million miles tailwards.

[Locke]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1295755803' post='2592873']
Which timezone do you live in that is 48 hours behind all the others? Odd.
[/quote]
Magic Land, the home of unicorns, rainbows, and people who think that makes sense.

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1295734622' post='2592432']
And here I was beginning to think you guys were serious when you say I'm insignificant.
[/quote]

I've never doubted your hatred for Impero.

[Teddyyo]

Rebel Virginia: He makes sense when you don't think about it

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Teddyyo' timestamp='1295758776' post='2592952']
Rebel Virginia: He makes sense when you don't think about it
[/quote]
True, because logical errors in your timetable of events aren't worth thinking about, right?

[Joe Izuzu]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295748534' post='2592731']
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. A senior member of government worked with a spy to the point of thinking up names
and picking the alliance to spy on. Much like the drug dealer is a better catch than the drug user, the
spymaster is a better catch than the spy.[/quote]

Wrong, he didn't "pick the alliance". Try again, or show me the quote that proves your claim.

[quote]As you seem completely incapable of making the distinction between passively accepting information and
actively taking part in acquiring it (thats why daj asking for the rehost was pure gold)...[/quote]

Wrong, he didn't ask him to rehost. Try again, or show me the quote that proves your claim.

[quote]....let me spell it out for you, "accepting information" was a crap CB in Karma for two reasons, the
most important one, and the one that lost NPO the PR war for it was when Moo gave the infamous 'all alliances
accept information' line. NPO being a subset off "all" Moo had just said that they wanted to kill OV for
something they had done, you may recall the wonderfully leading question of how NPO could know OV had
accepted information without also doing the same.[/quote]

So...VE is guilty of exactly the same thing as NPO, since you accepted information concerning the size of
NpO's war chests: "Sprog: How do their warchest compare to yours?" "Dajobo: Similar" You also accepted
screen shots from NpO's forums in order to obtain that information. Way to self-incriminate.

[quote]The other lesser reason is that there is a difference between accepting information passively that is
handed to you and actively taking part in its gathering. I realize fully that nobody on your side wants to
recognize the difference because its the closest thing to a defense of Daj's actions, but you just look silly
trying since its pitifully transparent, and even if it wasn't Daj has already admitted he made mistakes. The
only logical point of contention you have left is that our going to war was hasty and/or an over reaction.
But nobody's tired to address that yet without covering the place with Grade A Cow Patties.[/quote]

Wrong. He actually apologized for joking around with Lennox and for not going to you quicker once he
realized that Lennox had actually done something. He did not run any spy op, nor did he apologize for
running one. Try again, or show me the quote that proves your claim.

[quote]You continually try to dress this up as some master plan by VE to get you rolled but forget that none
of this could have happened without Daj first sending us a spy, that was the crime, the setup was tricking
Polar into handing us proof. No matter how many times you try to regurgitate the same lies it won't change
that this all started with a chat between Lennox and Daj, which we knew nothing about until Lennox flipped on
Polar. Polar made two mistakes, the sent us a spy in the first place, then they gave that spy proof he could
use against them.[/quote]

Wrong. Daj did not send you a spy. There is absolutely nothing in the logs that supports that claim. This
matter actually started when Impero colluded with Lennox by giving him screenshots and instructing him how to
spy on NpO. An action that he did his damndest to keep secret from anyone in his own alliance. At the time
that Lennox "flipped on Polar", there was nothing to flip. Daj did make a mistake, which was talking to
Lennox at all. But Polar did not give any proof to you, since you still have none. You never did.

[quote]The 'material' posted by RV proves nothing, it is largely lies and misrepresentation, easily
dis-proven at that, the fact that you belive them simply proves your ignorance, or that you are more
interested in preaching from a political platform rather than anything related to the facts of the
case.[/quote]

Wrong. If it was "easily disproven", you would have done so already, yet you have not. In fact, Impero's
efforts to disprove it have only served to strengthen the legitimacy it holds in the minds of just about
anyone who is not your ally. And while I may certainly be preaching from a political platform (although I
would say it is more of a social one), the basis of my "preaching" has been constructed solely from the facts
that are available.

[quote]Either way, it still changes nothing, no matter how much garbage is spewed out onto the OWF by Polar
and its allies, the fact is we moved for an offense we felt warranted this response, and we are winning this
war. No amount of spin can change those two facts.[/quote]

Wrong. I am not a Polar ally. Also, the fact is that you moved because you managed to manufacture a CB
that, for a short time, had the semblance of being justified and which allowed you to roll someone you
dislike. The "offense" did not, in reality, exist and the semblance of justification has long since been
tarnished. As to whether or not you are winning the war, that claim at least is plausible, if not certain.

[quote]And that was covered in in the DoW, its a feeble throwaway one liner in a CYA attempt, that we are not
buying, since it was in the same conversation as him suggesting somebody go spy on us.[/quote]

Wrong. It is the statement that proves the truth. Lennox was on his own, Dajobo was just joking around, and
there was no spy op. Except, of course, for the one that was run by Impero.


[quote]I hadn't noticed, I'd guess timezones, IRC clients typically log in local time.[/quote]

Nice try, but wrong again.

[Joe Izuzu]

And while we are talking about lies, how about we talk about some of yours?....

[quote]RoK was ok with this, then changed their mind after we rolled. They ....Holy !@#$. It just hit me. Rok just quite literally pulled the same stunt on us that Polar did to TOP and IRON. [/quote]

[quote]Their word was a pledge to stay neutral since they had conflicting treaties. A pledge you just saw them break. [/quote]

Blatant falsehoods, both of them. Since you are so comfortable lying, even about your allies, why should we believe anything that you have to say about your enemies?

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295755754' post='2592872']
We did, in this thread. Your side is just desperately attempting not to notice because its inconvenient for you.[/quote]

I was under the impression that RV's overall claim was that Lennox worked with Impero to ensnare Dajobo. Which part of that isn't true? The only thing that RV seemed to have gotten wrong was the timing of who talked to who first. I believe RV even posted (in a different tread I think) to confirm that he wasn't sure of the exact order. Frankly I don't really care if Lennox approached Impero or the other way around. The whole thing was a crap move by Lennox and he was aided and abetted by Impero.

[quote]
Step away from the tin foil my good man. Down that road lies madness.

This was of course a Master Plan(TM) By TOP, who manipulated Lennox from beyond the grave, to return, start a chat with Daj, and then with the use of their patented mind control ray [i]forced[/i] Daj into suggesting VE in a private convo with Lennox, all for a chance to get revenge on Polar for BiPolar. I mean its so obvious right? Polar couldn't possible be responsible for any of their own actions, its all evil manipulations from outside forces!
[/quote]

What the heck? I ask an honest question and you turn into a babbling idiot? Let me be more clear:

I contend that Lennox had a mind to spy on someone, anyone, before he talked to Dajobo. I contend the reason for this is Lennox was bored and had some grudge against Dajobo or the NpO as a whole as later shown in Impero's logs. I do not contend that TOP, Impero, or anyone else spoke to Lennox or planned to use him to start a war with NpO.

Look at the facts: It is Lennox, not Dajobo, who first raises the issue of spying in the very second line of their initial exchange. It is Lennox who says he should spy on MHA. It is Lennox who request suggestions of alternate alliances to spy on. It is Lennox who asks about being caught by IP. It is Lennox who request help picking a name. Etc. Up until Dajobo stupidly responded to those pictures Lennox (him again!) got from Impero Dajobo's role was very minor and it is downright dishonest to suggest, from that exchange, that Dajobo was attempting to have Lennox spy on anyone.

That's all I was getting at. Next time keep your own tin foil hat stowed safely away and show your fellow player a bit of respect. Unlike you, I'm not some loon coming up with wild conspiracy theories, and frankly neither are my allies in the New Polar Order. They think this situation is vastly unfair to Dajobo, that it is a deceitful attack on his character, and that although Dajobo did mess up in the end with the screenshots it should have been resolved diplomatically. The last part seems even more true now that we know the whole thing was a "sting operation" in the first place and now that we know Impero was using someone he knew wanted to hurt the NpO to carry out that operation.

Edited January 23, 2011 by Ragashingo

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1295760354' post='2592986']
I was under the impression that RV's overall claim was that Lennox worked with Impero to ensnare Dajobo. Which part of that isn't true? The only thing that RV seemed to have gotten wrong was the timing of who talked to who first. I believe RV even posted (in a different tread I think) to confirm that he wasn't sure of the exact order.[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, that is correct. The main thing is that Impero was working with Lennox, and the only reason Lennox had anything to give Polar (which Polar didn't even want anyway) was because Impero gave the information to Lennox. We already knew that, but I figured I'd just get the proof out there. Of course, getting a minor and pretty much irrelevant detail somewhat wrong apparently invalidates everything else that I say, so just ignore everything. I am a liar and VE wants you to know it.[/color]

[PotFace]

Jeez Typo.... I figured you would have said something correct by now out of sheer accident. The world pretty much concurs that VE set this up. And even if this was all some made-up, highly detailed, well planned-out lie (which it isn't), VE would still have to convince everyone that its rush to DoW wasn't irresponsible or indicative of premeditation in order to demonstrate that she's in the right.

This is the consequence for doing business the way you guys have chosen to do business. It's cause and effect. Now man up and deal with the mess that you have helped to create. Or hell, if you wanted to save face and attempt to bring some sort of honor to yourself and maybe even a bright future ahead of you - do the right thing. Surrender and apologize. Too easy.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1295760922' post='2593031']
Jeez Typo.... I figured you would have said something correct by now out of sheer accident. The world pretty much concurs that VE set this up.
[/quote]

You mean just the part of the world you happen to be in that's getting crushed, right?

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1295764289' post='2593389']
You mean just the part of the world you happen to be in that's getting crushed, right?
[/quote]
Or those that can read.

[Solaris]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1295765152' post='2593426']
Or those that can read.
[/quote]Exactly, Warriorconcept. People who can read - people like Alterego and Ivan.


Fact of the matter is, that we regard Dajobo's actions and intentions intolerable, regardless of how he wants to backpedal from it, or re-define stuff retroactively as nonsense, or distratct people from the actual concatenation of spacetime.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1295765522' post='2593445']
Exactly, Warriorconcept. People who can read - people like Alterego and Ivan.


Fact of the matter is, that we regard Dajobo's actions and intentions intolerable, regardless of how he wants to backpedal from it, or re-define stuff retroactively as nonsense, or distratct people from the actual concatenation of spacetime.
[/quote]
Right.

Which actions are those again?

The ones that took place before Lennox ever spoke to Dajobo and was admitted in 4 minutes into VE or the actions that took place after Impero provided Lennox with screenshots from your alliance's private boards?

[Solaris]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1295766190' post='2593478']

Which actions are those again?

[/quote]Targetting VE and instructing someone, who he thought was his spy, but was a free agent in his heart. That the free agent decided that Dajobo is not worth spying for, and in fact a despicable enough a guy to be double-crossed for, whatever motivation, specifics of which is ultimately irrelevant, the free agent had. His actions in consorting with the free agent he thought was his spy, when the free agent had had a change of heart, and a desire to alert our shining city on a hill of a hostile goverment's byzantine strategy.

The fact that Dajobo in his wisdom put orderly backpedal-contignencies ("[i]~~Oh I'm just lolling with you~~[/i]") in the discussion, don't absolve him.

And if you're going to raise an argument regarding our treatment of the spy, the fact of the matter is that the nation of sprog [i]is no more[/i], and our internal judicial process being a highly guarded state secret, you'll just have to draw your conclusions on what happens to spies, but you'll ultimately be operating with subsatisfactory degree of information - you don't know, you can't know, and it's not your business.

[Roi Loup]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1295768342' post='2593542']
Targetting VE and instructing someone, who he thought was his spy, but was a free agent in his heart. That the free agent decided that Dajobo is not worth spying for, and in fact a despicable enough a guy to be double-crossed for, whatever motivation, specifics of which is ultimately irrelevant, the free agent had. His actions in consorting with the free agent he thought was his spy, when the free agent had had a change of heart, and a desire to alert our shining city on a hill of a hostile goverment's byzantine strategy.

The fact that Dajobo in his wisdom put orderly backpedal-contignencies ("[i]~~Oh I'm just lolling with you~~[/i]") in the discussion, don't absolve him.

And if you're going to raise an argument regarding our treatment of the spy, the fact of the matter is that the nation of sprog [i]is no more[/i], and our internal judicial process being a highly guarded state secret, you'll just have to draw your conclusions on what happens to spies, but you'll ultimately be operating with subsatisfactory degree of information - you don't know, you can't know, and it's not your business.
[/quote]

i think it is our business..

[Audran]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1295760922' post='2593031']The world pretty much concurs that VE set this up. [/quote]

If you mean Polar and allies plus those that didn't like us to begin with, then yes, I would agree with you.

[Roi Loup]

[quote name='Audran' timestamp='1295770045' post='2593582']
If you mean Polar and allies plus those that didn't like us to begin with, then yes, I would agree with you.
[/quote]

your allies agree with you and our allies agree with us.. wow who woulda guessed

(i suppose though we have more foreign supporters even if they do all just hate ve)

[Bergerland]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1295711642' post='2591960']
Read the red letters above and see why he said that spy VE or MK would make more sense.

VE would have used the follow CB: State the obvious is unacceptable thus we declare war on New Polar Order.
[/quote]

I'm not debating that spying on VE would make more sense and if you read what I wrote maybe you'd have gotten that. I'll state it again, in different words, for your benefit. He had an objection to spying on MHA for two reasons: 1.) It would be worthless and 2.) they're not the enemy. Why would he specifically state MHA is not the enemy when it had no bearing on deciding who to spy upon? And to further build upon that, if he did have an objection to spying on MHA because they're not the enemy, and he also doesn't consider VE an enemy, why would he suggest VE as a target?

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295756176' post='2592882']
[color="#0000FF"]Actually, my material has shown you to be lying. You initially claimed it was not a set up, and the Lennox had simply confessed after he obtained the war chest information (which you claimed to have been available to all members of VE, but now clearly shown to be given to him by Impero) from your forum. I won't waste my time and attempt to dig through past posts by VE members, but I am sure someone else who has plenty of time won't mind demonstrating how significantly your story has changed since my post.[/color]
[/quote]

Tricking the spymaster into revealing himself was the setup, sending the spy in the first place that was all polar. You are attempting to claim the entirety of the events leading up to this were some kind of master plan.

[quote name='Roi Loup' timestamp='1295768752' post='2593552']
i think it is our business..
[/quote]

You think wrongly.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295773602' post='2593682']
Tricking the spymaster into revealing himself was the setup, sending the spy in the first place that was all polar. You are attempting to claim the entirety of the events leading up to this were some kind of master plan.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Having read the logs, Polar had no interest in taking part in any of Lennox's espionage activities. It was even said outright. But it is typical of you to ignore inconvenient truths.[/color]

[Heft]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295773602' post='2593682']
Tricking the spymaster into revealing himself was the setup, sending the spy in the first place that was all polar. You are attempting to claim the entirety of the events leading up to this were some kind of master plan.
[/quote]
I've yet to see anything to support the idea that Polar, or even just Dajobo, sent anyone to spy anywhere. You would think that if such were true you would have been able to prove it by now.