Declaration of War From the Viridian Entente

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295341810' post='2580982']
so you would tell them not to do it like Dajobo stating he does not condone spying? okay. Dajobo did that.

also, work may mean he has no IRC access.... you do realize there are times when people can't get on IRC and work would most likely be one of those times. i know it is a complete and utter shock to you, but it is the sad truth.

as for the rest- again, Dajobo was talking to someone who was a friend whom he thought was joking. heaven forbid someone not take this place so damn seriously that they would automatically assume a friend of theirs was not joking in that kind of situation. shoot, if that were the case, then i had better be careful about what i joke about. i have joked about going rogue, spying, trying to coup an alliance or 3 or 4 and !@#$ like that.



shush you, to WC that other world does not matter. Only Planet Bob matters and that other realm and the obligations there are nothing compared to getting to VE right away. it does not matter if Dajobo probably had no means of contacting Impero as that chat did not look like it took place on IRC. nor does it matter that it appears that Dajobo was at work and most likely had other things to do when he got home before bed. none of that matters at all man. you have to adapt to this new CN or die in a Darwinian manner.

that being said, tis late and i am heading to bed.
[/quote]

Of course I would tell them not to do it like Dajobo did, but then again I wouldn't have proceeded like that like he did and then say "pick someone worth spying on" and mention some alliances. Big difference there and you're smart enough to figure it out. It's already been evidenced he was on IRC prior to accepting the screenshot as he was even able to discuss it with the spy. Time better spent talking to VE.

And also it is late, going to bed. Night

[Locke]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1295341076' post='2580961']
To NpO: I have never had any strong desire to see you in war, and it's never been any sort of overwhelming desire within PB. Yes some of us don't like you, but hey guess what we're kind of a huge bloc with lots of people with varying opinions. Get over yourselves.
[/quote]
Do I really need to pull [url="http://i.imgur.com/78KnO.png"]this[/url] out?

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1295341934' post='2580984']
That's fine and all, just don't think you can tell VE to sod off and then complain that no attempt at diplomacy was made.
[/quote]

except it was the other way around. it was VE who told NpO to sod off and then VE's lackeys claiming no attempt at diplomacy was made. or that the attempt was not fast enough as in WC's case.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1295342092' post='2580987']
Do I really need to pull [url="http://i.imgur.com/78KnO.png"]this[/url] out?
[/quote]
Hahahahaha yes, certainly, if you would like to show just how gullible you are.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1295342092' post='2580987']
Do I really need to pull [url="http://i.imgur.com/78KnO.png"]this[/url] out?
[/quote]
That was crafted and leaked intentionally, actually. Since, you know, there are places where things like that end up and people take seriously.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295341333' post='2580971']
As I understand, this occurred over a rather short timeframe, so it's quite likely that Dajobo went to VE rather quickly, considering timezones and sleeping habits (and the like). Certainly quickly enough to argue that VE went hastily to war [b]without bothering to hear NpO's side of the story[/b].
[/quote]

Polar was notified of the situation via other parties far before I was contacted.

For the record, I also had a separate conversation with random that followed that which I had with Dajobo. Both were fruitless, and the only explanation I was given was along the lines of "he was just playing along!". If you would actually take that at its face value to free a party from liability, then I feel bad for your alliance.

Furthermore, before anyone posts that [i]beginning [/i]snip of my talk with Dajobo again while trying to assert that I was dismissive, take note of the fact that Mr. Interrupt was just as quick to dismiss any further conversation at the end of the logs as I was at their start:

[quote][20:30] [b]<Random_Gone> I am not going to waste my life speaking to you when it's clear you are not capable of understanding what a simple issue this is[/b]
01[20:31] <Impero[VE]> ah, theres that tone your so famous for
[20:31] <Random_Gone> Only when dealing with people like you
01[20:31] <Impero[VE]> your right, it is simple, hence this being where we are
01[20:31] <Impero[VE]> now, if theres nothing else?
[20:32] <Random_Gone> Enjoy your war. Congratulations on a successful setup, and I'll see you on the other side
01[20:32] <Impero[VE]> im sorry you feel that way
01[20:32] <Impero[VE]> have a great night[/quote]

[MrMuz]

I wonder how many people who complained that we're stagnating or that alliances should declare war without a CB are now complaining that this isn't a valid enough CB. There's quite a few logs and screenshots up there, and links to info leaked from the screenshots, so you can't deny that there was spying going on.

A VE-NpO war (with friends) is as good as it gets when it comes to global wars. Both are fairly large alliances with good military tradition and a good number of friends. If you're not a combatant, get popcorn. If you're on NpO/VE/PC/iFOK, sit back and enjoy some popcorn when Polar and VE have ironed out their differences and everyone else is at war.

The CB's only good for if you're trying to argue your way out of the war, or decide which side to take if you're linked to two people on different sides.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295342153' post='2580988']
except it was the other way around. it was VE who told NpO to sod off and then VE's lackeys claiming no attempt at diplomacy was made. or that the attempt was not fast enough as in WC's case.
[/quote]
Like I said, I was there. Were you?

<Random_Gone> [b]I am not going to waste my life speaking to you[/b] when it's clear you are not capable of understanding what a simple issue this is
<Impero[VE]> ah, theres that tone your so famous for
<Random_Gone> Only when dealing with people like you
<Impero[VE]> your right, it is simple, hence this being where we are
<Impero[VE]> now, if theres nothing else?
<Random_Gone> Enjoy your war. Congratulations on a successful setup, and I'll see you on the other side
<Impero[VE]> im sorry you feel that way
<Impero[VE]> have a great night

There you go; Random saying "Screw diplomacy, I'm not going to discuss anything with you."

efb by impero!!@

Edited January 18, 2011 by Beefspari

[Arrnea]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1295342305' post='2580992']Furthermore, before anyone posts that [i]beginning [/i]snip of my talk with Dajobo again while trying to assert that I was dismissive, take note of the fact that Mr. Interrupt was just as quick to dismiss any further conversation at the end of the logs as I was at their start:[/quote]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this log would seem to be from [b]after[/b] you'd gone to war, or at least, after you'd decided irreversably to do so (and thus well after you dismissed Dajobo's overtures towards VE in an effort to explain the situation reasonably).
At this point, it's not at all surprising that the leader of the alliance you're about to attack (or have already attacked) would be dismissive of you.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Arrnea

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1295341934' post='2580984']
That's fine and all, just don't think you can tell VE to sod off and then complain that no attempt at diplomacy was made.
[/quote]

Doesn't work that way. The entire point of telling them to "sod off" is because their apparent attempt at diplomacy is so obviously not. VE can't feign diplomacy, get called on their !@#$%^&* and then claim Polar rebuffed their diplomacy.

It's hilarious to watch you people attempt to frame this war in terms that try to make it look just. Why don't you just admit what this is? You've done it before and you got away with it. Why bother looking for legitimacy?

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1295342393' post='2580995']
Like I said, I was there. Were you?

<Random_Gone> [b]I am not going to waste my life speaking to you[/b] when it's clear you are not capable of understanding what a simple issue this is
<Impero[VE]> ah, theres that tone your so famous for
<Random_Gone> Only when dealing with people like you
<Impero[VE]> your right, it is simple, hence this being where we are
<Impero[VE]> now, if theres nothing else?
<Random_Gone> Enjoy your war. Congratulations on a successful setup, and I'll see you on the other side
<Impero[VE]> im sorry you feel that way
<Impero[VE]> have a great night

There you go; Random saying "Screw diplomacy, I'm not going to discuss anything with you."

efb by impero!!@
[/quote]

Ok I'm struck by one thing here above all others;

Why the hell would random be that rude to Impero? If he wanted any chance at all of reaching a diplomatic solution, calling Impero stupid at this juncture is about the worst thing to do. "not going to waste my life talking" "clear you are not capable of understanding".

That's right, insult the person you want to convince that they shouldn't attack you, [i]that[/i] will work!

[lebubu]

Godspeed, friends!

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295342479' post='2580996']
[b]Correct me if I'm wrong[/b], but this log would seem to be from [b]after[/b] you'd gone to war, or at least, after you'd decided irreversably to do so (and thus well after you dismissed Dajobo's overtures towards VE in an effort to explain the situation reasonably).
At this point, it's not at all surprising that the leader of the alliance you're about to attack (or have already attacked) would be dismissive of you.
[/quote]

You are wrong, and have been corrected.

[Penguin]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1295339386' post='2580898']
Now tell me again, how long until after Dajobo received those screenshots did he come to Impero to talk about it? I'm pretty sure it was Impero who came to NpO to talk about the screenshots, and not the other way around.
[/quote]
It was the next morning when he woke up. And Dajobo, upon realizing the logs were probably real, approached Impero to explain but wasn't soon enough. Dajobo is an extremely nice guy and I imagine anyone who knows him well enough wouldn't have trouble believing his side of the story. Well, I know him and I don't doubt him anyway. That doesn't really matter when you're making a case to people who don't know you, which is pretty essential in alliance politics. I wish he'd been more cautious and hadn't indulged anyone's taboo subjects, but such is the way of things. It's hard for me to be upset with someone for being too trusting.

Aside from that, a lot of people have wanted a war with us for some time, so who am I to complain when the first thing sufficient to rally support is packaged and shipped overnight? That's usually how it goes when you've got enemies a plenty, and I'm sure you'll all be equally understanding when someone who doesn't like you decides to forgo diplomacy. Personally, I'll just be glad if we can put some of this baggage behind us once people have taken their fill of my fish piles; so much malice floating around just doesn't suit me. Oh and I'm looking forward to some fun wars with good sports too, so if one of you fine folks reading this will do the honor of engaging me that would be swell. Here's hoping we can have some fun and settle some differences on the battlefield like the good ol' days!

[Monster]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1295342092' post='2580987']
Do I really need to pull [url="http://i.imgur.com/78KnO.png"]this[/url] out?
[/quote]

You realize that was made up to be leaked intentionally?

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1295342305' post='2580992']
Polar was notified of the situation via other parties far before I was contacted.

For the record, I also had a separate conversation with random that followed that which I had with Dajobo. Both were fruitless, and the only explanation I was given was along the lines of "he was just playing along!". If you would actually take that at its face value to free a party from liability, then I feel bad for your alliance.

Furthermore, before anyone posts that [i]beginning [/i]snip of my talk with Dajobo again while trying to assert that I was dismissive, take note of the fact that Mr. Interrupt was just as quick to dismiss any further conversation at the end of the logs as I was at their start:
[/quote]

You pretty much made it quite clear to Dajobo that you were not willing to listen or change your mind in any way, becoming "afk since i know im right in attacking you". That of course amounts as obvious and convenient avoidant behavior. In some ways, you're kind of just perpetuating the point further.

[Locke]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295342935' post='2580998']
Ok I'm struck by one thing here above all others;

Why the hell would random be that rude to Impero? If he wanted any chance at all of reaching a diplomatic solution, calling Impero stupid at this juncture is about the worst thing to do. "not going to waste my life talking" "clear you are not capable of understanding".

That's right, insult the person you want to convince that they shouldn't attack you, [i]that[/i] will work!
[/quote]
I think it's clear that by that point that convincing Impero of anything wasn't high on his list of priorities.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1295342578' post='2580997']
Doesn't work that way. The entire point of telling them to "sod off" is because their apparent attempt at diplomacy is so obviously not. VE can't feign diplomacy, get called on their !@#$%^&* and then claim Polar rebuffed their diplomacy.

It's hilarious to watch you people attempt to frame this war in terms that try to make it look just. Why don't you just admit what this is? You've done it before and you got away with it. Why bother looking for legitimacy?
[/quote]
I don't think VE claimed a lack of diplomacy or even cares that NpO turned them away or told them to go to hell. But what I do see an awful lot of is people claiming that VE never tried any diplomacy, when they obviously did. When NpO tells you they aren't going to "waste their time on you," they sort of lose the ability to complain that no diplomacy attempt was made.

Also, the only thing that's hilarious is how people are trying to turn "NpO accepts spy information and casually discusses it, then feigns innocence" as a conspiracy by VE. I'm still wondering how exactly VE managed to make Lennox offer MHA only to have NpO be the one to suggest VE instead. Was VE pulling the strings on NpO to make them frame themselves as well? It'd have to be one heck of a conspiracy by VE when it was NpO's idea to go for VE in the first place.

EDIT: missed a word

Edited January 18, 2011 by Beefspari

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1295343366' post='2581008']
You pretty much made it quite clear to Dajobo that you were not willing to listen or change your mind in any way, becoming "afk since i know im right in attacking you". That of course amounts as obvious and convenient avoidant behavior. In some ways, you're kind of just perpetuating the point further.
[/quote]

You understand those logs continued soon after I got back then a later conversation took place with Random, right?

[Locke]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1295343332' post='2581007']
You realize that was made up to be leaked intentionally?
[/quote]
Yes, I realize that; I also realized that the first two times I was told that. I got it from a trusted source, so sue me.

[Kowalski]

Have fun VE and don't let up.

[neneko]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1295343953' post='2581023']
Yes, I realize that; I also realized that the first two times I was told that. I got it from a trusted source, so sue me.
[/quote]
You fall for every fake leak. Your sources are gold. Never change.

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1295343953' post='2581023']
Yes, I realize that; I also realized that the first two times I was told that. I got it from a trusted source, so sue me.
[/quote]
So why bring it up then?

[Madder Red]

Good luck VE. Go get em.

[Arrnea]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1295343161' post='2581003']You are wrong, and have been corrected.[/quote]
I don't see anyone having addressed my point yet, but go ahead, feel free to dismiss it outright because it is... inconvenient to your version of the truth.