Declaration of War From the Viridian Entente

[King Srqt]

[quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1295376397' post='2581689']
We went to talk to the VE first, and then when it was clear that there was to be only war, then we entered into war mode. The full logs are in my topic. Your time-line is off, as expected since you have no idea what you are talking about.
[/quote]
The logs also seem to imply that you knew that VE was aware of the spying and your knowledge of it before you went to them. Going to talk to VE because they found out and you needed to save your ass wasn't going to work.

[Partisan]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before yet but...what the heck is this?

[IMG]http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx283/chaosplayer4/lennox.png[/IMG]

if you look at the top right of this screen shot you'd see that Lennox is still masked as a member. Really VE? You're attacking polar for 'spying' while letting the ACTUAL spy off the hook. In fact, you even let the person that fed your 'precious' war chest info to polar remain a member of your alliance?

I call bull and set-up.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1295377909' post='2581767']
How we handle internal policy on this matter with Lennox has absolutely no relation to how we decide to handle our external foreign policy in regard to NpO. We don't have to punish anyone, or not punish anyone, to be justified for defending our alliance when an alliance leader infiltrates us with a spy.
[/quote]

Why would you punish your star witness, the man who handed you a golden CB? or is that star double agent that accomplished his mission?

You gotta admit, it smells like fish, even if the CB is valid.

[xoindotnler]

[quote name='Partisan' timestamp='1295380667' post='2581855']
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before yet but...what the heck is this?

if you look at the top right of this screen shot you'd see that Lennox is still masked as a member. Really VE? You're attacking polar for 'spying' while letting the ACTUAL spy off the hook. In fact, you even let the person that fed your 'precious' war chest info to polar remain a member of your alliance?

I call bull and set-up.
[/quote]
Welcome to the club, there is some punch in the corner. And you should make your own name tag as we are running low on those.

[Bob Janova]

It's absolutely amazing that people are arguing about this one, to be honest. Spying is one of the oldest and most cast-iron CBs around, and there's not really much space for diplomacy when the second in command of the alliance is directly implicated. (And Dajobo may have decided to try to 'come clean' after it was leaked that they were getting rolled, but he certainly didn't before 'oh crap' time.)

It just annoys me that yet again the opponent has too small a top tier to actually provide slots for everyone. Some Polar ally please attack me.

Edit: As Goldie says, what we may decide to do or not do internally with Lennox is not really your concern. But consider this: he put himself at considerable risk to tell us about the plan he was a part of and that will be taken into account.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Bob Janova

[Cairna]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295381362' post='2581881']
It's absolutely amazing that people are arguing about this one, to be honest. Spying is one of the oldest and most cast-iron CBs around, and there's not really much space for diplomacy when the second in command of the alliance is directly implicated. (And Dajobo may have decided to try to 'come clean' after it was leaked that they were getting rolled, but he certainly didn't before 'oh crap' time.)

It just annoys me that yet again the opponent has too small a top tier to actually provide slots for everyone. Some Polar ally please attack me.

Edit: As Goldie says, what we may decide to do or not do internally with Lennox is not really your concern. But consider this: he put himself at considerable risk to tell us about the plan he was a part of and that will be taken into account.
[/quote]

He doesn't even have a nation. More like he served his purpose and you guys knew it so why bother de-masking and punishing.

[Trinite]

[quote name='Partisan' timestamp='1295380667' post='2581855']
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before yet but...what the heck is this?

[IMG]http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx283/chaosplayer4/lennox.png[/IMG]

if you look at the top right of this screen shot you'd see that Lennox is still masked as a member. Really VE? You're attacking polar for 'spying' while letting the ACTUAL spy off the hook. In fact, you even let the person that fed your 'precious' war chest info to polar remain a member of your alliance?

I call bull and set-up.
[/quote]
Yes. It was a set up. What's your point? It's still more than enough for a CB. If we waited around for alliances to actually do something as awful as we all pretend these things are, we would never get to fight.

Although it is interesting that he was active today. I wonder how proud of himself he is that he stabbed a friend in the back to get his revenge.

Edit:
[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295381362' post='2581881']
Edit: As Goldie says, what we may decide to do or not do internally with Lennox is not really your concern. But consider this: he put himself at considerable risk to tell us about the plan he was a part of and that will be taken into account.
[/quote]
Seriously Bob? He made that nation for the sole purpose of getting Polar rolled and has accomplished his mission. I know you're smart enough to see that. Keep him as you will for giving you guys a solid CB, but he's a snake in my book and trying to perpetuate this change of heart story only undermines your credibility.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Trinite

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Cairna' timestamp='1295381602' post='2581886']
He doesn't even have a nation. More like he served his purpose and you guys knew it so why bother de-masking and punishing.
[/quote]
We're obviously keeping him around so that we can send other alliances screenshots, and have a CB on them too! Yay tinfoil!

[Partisan]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295381362' post='2581881']
It's absolutely amazing that people are arguing about this one, to be honest. Spying is one of the oldest and most cast-iron CBs around, and there's not really much space for diplomacy when the second in command of the alliance is directly implicated. (And Dajobo may have decided to try to 'come clean' after it was leaked that they were getting rolled, but he certainly didn't before 'oh crap' time.)

It just annoys me that yet again the opponent has too small a top tier to actually provide slots for everyone. Some Polar ally please attack me.

Edit: As Goldie says, what we may decide to do or not do internally with Lennox is not really your concern. But consider this: he put himself at considerable risk to tell us about the plan he was a part of and that will be taken into account.
[/quote]

Its amazing that you managed to find out about the spy, judge the evidence, discuss war, prepare your membership/alliance, inform your allies, get said allies to discuss and make a decision and declare war, all in a timespan of 20 hours. All of this without taking the time to listen to the 'other side' of the story or trying to use any diplomacy to solve the issue whatsoever.

As for your complaining about the 'lack of a top tier'....Perhaps you shouldn't have called in all those allies in if you wanted to have a piece of them. Just a suggestion.

I'd call it hypocricy to punish an alliance for spying while letting the actual spy off the hook and still keeping him as a member. Double standards much?

EDIT:

[quote]Yes. It was a set up. What's your point? It's still more than enough for a CB. If we waited around for alliances to actually do something as awful as we all pretend these things are, we would never get to fight.

Although it is interesting that he was active today. I wonder how proud of himself he is that he stabbed a friend in the back to get his revenge.[/quote]

My point is that VE should have had the balls to simply declare war without trying to fabricate some kind of CB. For an alliance that always prides itself on its 'honour', this is an incredibly low point. If you want to look good while curbstomping an alliance, at least try to cover up your story.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Partisan

[Lord Caspian]

[quote name='Ruler with Plan X' timestamp='1295376342' post='2581686']
If I remember right it was Physicsjunkie who we apologized for
[/quote]

I stand corrected (I'm assuming you went back to check since you pulled another quote from there). As I said, I was working from memory. *hat-tip*

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1295381846' post='2581893']
We're obviously keeping him around so that we can send other alliances screenshots, and have a CB on them too! Yay tinfoil!
[/quote]
I still haven't heard an explanation on why Lennox is still a General Member in VE when he clearly "betrayed" your alliance.

[iamthey]

[quote name='Partisan' timestamp='1295380667' post='2581855']
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before yet but...what the heck is this?

[IMG]http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx283/chaosplayer4/lennox.png[/IMG]

if you look at the top right of this screen shot you'd see that Lennox is still masked as a member. Really VE? You're attacking polar for 'spying' while letting the ACTUAL spy off the hook. In fact, you even let the person that fed your 'precious' war chest info to polar remain a member of your alliance?

I call bull and set-up.
[/quote]

Clearly you fail to understand that lennox in fact did a service to VE. While he did spy on them, he went to great effort to construct an solid looking CB against an enemy they've had their eye on for a time. If anything this is cause for promotion.

[Cairna]

[quote name='Trinite' timestamp='1295381659' post='2581889']
Yes. It was a set up. What's your point? It's still more than enough for a CB. If we waited around for alliances to actually do something as awful as we all pretend these things are, we would never get to fight.

Although it is interesting that he was active today. I wonder how proud of himself he is that he stabbed a friend in the back to get his revenge.

Edit:

Seriously Bob? He made that nation for the sole purpose of getting Polar rolled and has accomplished his mission. I know you're smart enough to see that. Keep him as you will for giving you guys a solid CB, but he's a snake in my book and trying to perpetuate this change of heart story only undermines your credibility.
[/quote]

[ooc]Once again that isn't actually a [i]valid[/i] IC argument.

At least try to keep up the pretense of being a serious alliance[/ooc]

[quote]We're obviously keeping him around so that we can send other alliances screenshots, and have a CB on them too! Yay tinfoil![/quote]

Yes. Please exaggerate my beliefs and ignore the main issue.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1295382287' post='2581907']
I still haven't heard an explanation on why Lennox is still a General Member in VE when he clearly "betrayed" your alliance.
[/quote]
His coming clean may have a thing to do with it. I honestly don't know either.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]all in a timespan of 20 hours[/quote]
[s]what[/s]How perfectly informed you are sir.

[iamthey]

ignore double post

Edited January 18, 2011 by iamthey

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1295370381' post='2581525']
This. I would have loved if you just attacked us because you don't like us or if we were considered a threat. [i]Would[/i] have been an awesome DoW.
[/quote]

You could probably talk TOP into going for that one if you expended as much effort on them as you do filling the OWF with FUD.

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1295382287' post='2581907']
I still haven't heard an explanation on why Lennox is still a General Member in VE when he clearly "betrayed" your alliance.
[/quote]

I still haven't heard an explanation on why random member's X Y and Z are members of your alliance.

Edited January 18, 2011 by TypoNinja

[Trinite]

[quote name='Cairna' timestamp='1295382498' post='2581914']
[ooc]Once again that isn't actually a [i]valid[/i] IC argument.

At least try to keep up the pretense of being a serious alliance[/ooc]
[/quote]
[OOC]Yes it is. I'm not saying that users are pretending their rulers find these things abhorrent. I'm saying rulers do not find these things abhorrent, but pretend they do because, as rulers, they want to fight the opposing alliance. There is absolutely nothing OOC about that, and calling it OOC is not a [i]valid[/i] counter to the point that...[/OOC]
Condoning spying, whether due to a set up or not, is a valid CB.

Edit:
[quote name='Partisan' timestamp='1295382009' post='2581899']My point is that VE should have had the balls to simply declare war without trying to fabricate some kind of CB. For an alliance that always prides itself on its 'honour', this is an incredibly low point. If you want to look good while curbstomping an alliance, at least try to cover up your story.
[/quote]
They didn't fabricate a CB. They were handed a CB with a bright bow on top of it, but as far as the narrative they're trying to run with here, I kind of agree with you.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Trinite

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Cairna' timestamp='1295381602' post='2581886']
He doesn't even have a nation. More like he served his purpose and you guys knew it so why bother de-masking and punishing.
[/quote]
How exactly did VE plan to send Lennox to talk to Dajobo, and know Dajobo would just happen to suggest he spy on VE? I still don't get how this conspiracy theory works.

[Corinan]

Damn, I wish I could find the logs wherein Lennox asks me if he should set up Polaris to get them rolled. Of course now I can't find them. That said, I can't believe [i]Lennox[/i] of all people is starting a global war. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Rooman33]

[quote name='Partisan' timestamp='1295380667' post='2581855']
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before yet but...what the heck is this?

[IMG]http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx283/chaosplayer4/lennox.png[/IMG]

if you look at the top right of this screen shot you'd see that Lennox is still masked as a member. Really VE? You're attacking polar for 'spying' while letting the ACTUAL spy off the hook. In fact, you even let the person that fed your 'precious' war chest info to polar remain a member of your alliance?

I call bull and set-up.
[/quote]

OOC: Dude, your default toolbar search engine is ask.com? Weak

IC: It was only a matter of time until someone did something stupid to start a war... Here's hoping everyone has fun tossing nukes around. I'll try talking my citizens into wearing suntan lotion before going out under the green-tinged sky.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Rooman33

[Earogema]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1295383218' post='2581937']
How exactly did VE plan to send Lennox to talk to Dajobo, and know Dajobo would just happen to suggest he spy on VE? I still don't get how this conspiracy theory works.
[/quote]
Except that Lennox was the one who suggested he should spy. Really, if he had picked MHA, then it would go MHA, Umbrella, PB. MK is the Doomhouse to PB. VE is PB.

Basically, it really didn't matter who he spied on that was connected to those alliances.

This is also why Planet Bob sucks atm.

[Bob Janova]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1295383446' post='2581940']
Damn, I wish I could find the logs wherein Lennox asks me if he should set up Polaris to get them rolled. Of course now I can't find them. That said, I can't believe [i]Lennox[/i] of all people is starting a global war. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.
[/quote]
It doesn't really matter if that's entirely true, Polar still supported the spying.

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295383018' post='2581930']
You could probably talk TOP into going for that one if you expended as much effort on them as you do filling the OWF with FUD.



I still haven't heard an explanation on why random member's X Y and Z are members of your alliance.
[/quote]
Well...I am sure we have kicked nations out who spied on us while wearing the NpO AA. IDK what your system is, but I personally wouldn't keep a nation in my alliance who spied on us while wearing the AA. But I'm not VE so I obviously have no say in your alliance.

[Corinan]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295383802' post='2581947']
It doesn't really matter if that's entirely true, Polar still supported the spying.
[/quote]

I doubt they did, actually. What I see is Dajobo merely entertaining one of Lennoxs flights of fancy. "Oh yeah sure, spy for us lol." Definitely a mistake to do so in hindsight, especially when you consider who he was dealing with. Lennox has long been an amatuerish pot stirrer, and I'm stunned he actually pulled this off.

Polar wasn't implicit in this. They've been set up by someone who has held a grudge against them for several months now. VE recognized the gift they were handed and ran with it for all it's worth. I suppose I can't blame them for that, but all the pretending in this thread that this is not the case is amusing.