Declaration of War

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1293023949' post='2549908']
Apparently. You and WFF should be commended. I kind of feel sorry for WFF though, with their 400,000 NS up against 21.5 million Spartan and ODN NS, not to mention INT and TPE.
[/quote]

Honestly, fighting Sparta is like getting free money and tech.

[Arrnea]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1293042104' post='2550167']I'd appreciate it if you didn't attack my allies, especially when I took the time to sit down with you and go over why you shouldn't be hitting WFF.[/quote]
I'm attacking whoever it was that made this terrible decision to completely and utterly overkill a tiny alliance.
SOS Brigade aside, there were better options for alliances to counter WFF, if indeed they needed countering at all (INT and TPE had it well in hand).

Edited December 22, 2010 by Arrnea

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1292999214' post='2549615']
Coming from you I wear the !@#$@#$ badge of honor.
[/quote]

Wow you mad. Watch out to not hurt your pinky with the badge's pin...otherwise in addition of being butt hurt you will be finger hurt...

Can we come back to the thread now sweetheart?

Edit: can replaced by come. Dam iPad keyboard.

Edited December 22, 2010 by King Louis the II

[Axolotlia]

Wait, so you DoW'd WFF and Europa in [i]defense[/i] of ODN, when WFF never even was at war with ODN, and amid increasingly uneven sides? Sounds like band-wagoning to me, which didn't PC and iFOK say they were going to... prevent?

[hoff10]

[quote name='halfChaos' timestamp='1292999577' post='2549624']
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA
[/quote]
LMAO

[KagetheSecond]

[quote name='Axolotlia' timestamp='1293047056' post='2550226']
Wait, so you DoW'd WFF and Europa in [i]defense[/i] of ODN, when WFF never even was at war with ODN, and amid increasingly uneven sides? Sounds like band-wagoning to me, which didn't PC and iFOK say they were going to... prevent?
[/quote]
ODN ghost DoW'd earlier just so sparta could hit them on the oA clause.

[Arrnea]

[quote name='Axolotlia' timestamp='1293047056' post='2550226']
Wait, so you DoW'd WFF and Europa in [i]defense[/i] of ODN, when WFF never even was at war with ODN, and amid increasingly uneven sides? Sounds like band-wagoning to me, which didn't PC and iFOK say they were going to... prevent?
[/quote]
Actually, ODN DoWd on WFF before Sparta, just didn't launch any ingame wars (read: a ghost DoW), so legally yeah they can oA in.
As for PC and iFOK, they said that any bandwaggoning on [b]NEW[/b] would not be tolerated. Nothing was said about bandwaggoning on other alliances.

Edit: Damn, Kage beat me to the first part.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Arrnea

[Axolotlia]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1293047955' post='2550240']
Actually, ODN DoWd on WFF before Sparta, just didn't launch any ingame wars (read: a ghost DoW), so legally yeah they can oA in.
As for PC and iFOK, they said that any bandwaggoning on [b]NEW[/b] would not be tolerated. Nothing was said about bandwaggoning on other alliances.

Edit: Damn, Kage beat me to the first part.
[/quote]

Ah, I see, I assumed that to mean the whole side.

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1293004702' post='2549737']
Remember Karma war? IRON tried to blitz Rok but got their faces stuffed into the mud mid-blitz(i use this word lightly) courtesy of Fark

you SURE you wanna smack talk?

have fun, Sparta...
[/quote]
I'm sorry, but that had nothing to do with staggers.

Also, keep using my AA to badly attempt to disprove my points. It works wonders, I'm sure. Don't bother looking at my seniority to see when I joined, or even bother wondering where I was during Karma. That'd be a [i]challenge[/i].

[Uralica]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1293004702' post='2549737']
Remember Karma war? IRON tried to blitz Rok but got their faces stuffed into the mud mid-blitz(i use this word lightly) courtesy of Fark

you SURE you wanna smack talk?[/quote]

Uhh, J, he was in TOOL at the time.

[Pomiel]

Good luck sparta

[JWZepf]

See you on the battlefield Sparta!

Oranges for the Orange Throne. Blood for the Spartan Throne.

[Bob Janova]

You had to get a ghost DoW (man I hate those things) so you could jump on a tiny alliance who were well outmatched already? (And as for the ghost DoW, it's a useless piece of fake e-lawyering. If you 'enter on an oA' you're still entering aggressively, you might as well just declare war and be done with it. That's a general point for all you 'clever' strategists.)

[Banksy]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1293023949' post='2549908']
You [b]do[/b] realise that making the fight 100 to 1 against WFF is about the fastest way to give VA and DB4D an ironclad reason to [b]not[/b] activate their non-chaining MDoAPs with WFF, right?[/quote]
[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1293039519' post='2550127']
The thing is Sparta really hasn't escalated this war at all. They didn't supply someone to activate their treaties they've just bandwagoned on to the war. That's all they've done.[/quote]
If no one countered, then VA and DB4D wouldn't even be called upon unless there are optional aggression clauses (which are hardly likely going to be used here anyway). The ODN could have brought in C&G, Umbrella, MK or Sparta - all of which seem like overkill, and it looks like they gave them the easier option. Unless you actually believe that VA would have used an oA clause to enter the war against a very well connected, sanctioned, alliance than you seem to have a false understanding of how wars escalate.

[Lukapaka]

I'm sorry ODN has such beefcake allies (like us). As pointed out (several times?) already, any ally of ODN would have been overkill but what good are allies if you're NOT going to call them in to help you during war?

Will we effect the outcome of this war? Hell yea. It's going to end sooner. The initial situation with NEW did not need to break out into the wars we have now, so if you're going to sit there and cry all day about a curbstomp, blame NEW for being so ungodly unreasonable in negotiations. They didn't listen to Dark Fist's allies, and now they have the world against them.

And for those accusing us of [i]bandwaggoning, [/i]you're dead wrong. Believe it or not, Sparta had concern for the fate of Dark Fist from the get go, as they were our partner in NOIR. In the end this is a campaign against raiders who don't take responsibility for screwing up. Curbstomp or not, they'll receive their justice.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Lukapaka

[Kevanovia]

This is something I can get behind.

*gives the thumbs up*

[Arrnea]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1293054193' post='2550433']If no one countered, then VA and DB4D wouldn't even be called upon unless there are optional aggression clauses (which are hardly likely going to be used here anyway). The ODN could have brought in C&G, Umbrella, MK or Sparta - all of which seem like overkill, and it looks like they gave them the easier option. Unless you actually believe that VA would have used an oA clause to enter the war against a very well connected, sanctioned, alliance than you seem to have a false understanding of how wars escalate.[/quote]
You seem to have completely misunderstood my argument, so I'll elaborate.
My suggestion was that Sparta was overkill in the sense that it dissuades VA (and DB4D) from activating their non-chaining (as in, they aren't treaty-obligated to defend WFF, they merely have the option) MDoAPs with WFF. So if their goal was to prevent that counter, mission accomplished.
If their goal on the other hand, was (as I suspect) to give certain Spartan allies a shot at VA, and by extension TPF and its allies, then they royally screwed it up.

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1293055638' post='2550473']I'm sorry ODN has such beefcake allies (like us). As pointed out (several times?) already, any ally of ODN would have been overkill but what good are allies if you're NOT going to call them in to help you during war?[/quote]
I'm not going to dispute your strike on Europa, but there really was no need to hit WFF (what they had on them even before ODN declared would have been plenty).

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1293055638' post='2550473']And for those accusing us of [i]bandwaggoning, [/i]you're dead wrong. Believe it or not, Sparta had concern for the fate of Dark Fist from the get go, as they were our partner in NOIR. In the end this is a campaign against raiders who don't take responsibility for screwing up. Curbstomp or not, they'll receive their justice.[/quote]
This argument might work if you'd jumped in on NEW, not WFF and Europa (who are much smaller than NEW). Couldn't risk that counter though, could you?

[Enzos]

Doxa Sparte!

For;
o/ ODN
o/ Justice
o/ Breadsticks!

If you touch our allies you touch us! No excuses!

[Wes Walz Pants]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1293055638' post='2550473']
I'm sorry ODN has such beefcake allies (like us). As pointed out (several times?) already, any ally of ODN would have been overkill but what good are allies if you're NOT going to call them in to help you during war?

Will we effect the outcome of this war? Hell yea. It's going to end sooner. The initial situation with NEW did not need to break out into the wars we have now, so if you're going to sit there and cry all day about a curbstomp, [b]blame NEW for being so ungodly unreasonable in negotiations.[/b] They didn't listen to Dark Fist's allies, and now they have the world against them.

And for those accusing us of [i]bandwaggoning, [/i]you're dead wrong. Believe it or not, Sparta had concern for the fate of Dark Fist from the get go, as they were our partner in NOIR. In the end this is a campaign against raiders who don't take responsibility for screwing up. Curbstomp or not, they'll receive their justice.
[/quote]
Sparta calling out anyone for being unreasonable in negotiations is rather rich. There's no defense for what NEW did to Darkfist and I for one hope they learn their lesson. That said I'm just waiting to hear how much tech/monies you're gonna demand from your bandwagoned victim.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Calderone' timestamp='1293064877' post='2550701']
Sparta calling out anyone for being unreasonable in negotiations is rather rich. There's no defense for what NEW did to Darkfist and I for one hope they learn their lesson. That said I'm just waiting to hear how much tech/monies you're gonna demand from your bandwagoned victim.
[/quote]
We have already said we are not taking reps. I'm not sure what your point is.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1293065216' post='2550714']
We have already said we are not taking reps. I'm not sure what your point is.
[/quote]
You're not. What about your allies and those that would come in on your side of the conflict? I doubt you speak for all of them.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1293065373' post='2550718']
You're not. What about your allies and those that would come in on your side of the conflict? I doubt you speak for all of them.
[/quote]

He never claimed to be speaking for them..

[Fernando12]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1293065532' post='2550724']
He never claimed to be speaking for them..
[/quote]
That's my point. Hyperion/Sparta won't request reps, but I'm sure alliances that enter on their side would.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1293065373' post='2550718']
You're not. What about your allies and those that would come in on your side of the conflict? I doubt you speak for all of them.
[/quote]
Why don't you go ask them for their statements yourself. I'm not your messenger boy. What I am telling you is that Sparta is not taking reps. period.

[arentak]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1293044553' post='2550203']
Honestly, fighting Sparta is like getting free money and tech.
[/quote]

Don't worry, they never attack on the losing side, and they always make you pay it back in reps.