A Statement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[Rocky Horror]

idgi

should everyone try and max out the reps they pay, to get maximum sympathy? I guess being rude and lying to the other side would be a good idea too, then you'd get to pay even more reps.

~strategy evolved~

[SpoiL]

So you admit you were wrong, but because they called you out on it you are going to continue the extortion.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Mr. Teets' timestamp='1289324730' post='2508215']
All you wanted out of this was to extort some money out of NSO, which you've done. I hope the PR war you lost was worth it.
[/quote]
Couldn't be any further from the truth. NSO set up the situation for us to press our demand by coming to this forum and dragging us through the dirt as opposed to resolving this civilly. Do you honestly think that if cooler minds had re-approached the issue, in private, this would be the outcome?

[Rebirth]

Wow, for an extortion this was incredibly boring.

[Goldie]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289321887' post='2508165']
[color="#0000FF"]Oh, but I did enter the negotiations in good faith. I had no intention of taking this public until [i]after[/i] it became clear there could be no good faith negotiations, and that MK was not interested in listening to us at all.

Anyway, tell me, which is the more unforgivable offense? A larger power, in private, trying to strong arm a more weakly positioned alliance into giving into unreasonable and uncalled for demands simply because it can get away with it? Or is taking such misdeeds and abuses of power to the public eye?[/color]
[/quote]

Unforgivable? I don't think either are.

You couldn't have entered them in good faith, because as soon as you realized you had something you could latch on to, you ceased trying to act in a way beneficial to your alliance (get the number lowered, etc) and entirely in a way to position yourself to make the thread you made the other day. That you were looking at all to bring it public shows that you thought it would be a better idea to post this on the OWF than to negotiate with MK.

I'm glad you agree with me here that you both were wrong. I don't really care which wrong is worse than the other, just the sequence of events. MK was wrong, then instead of gaining from that wrong by negotiating a reasonable number, you went to the OWF and committed your own wrong, which exacerbated the problem and made your alliance suffer.

MK was dead wrong here, but you ruined your chance to come out of this the better by running to the OWF, and I think it reaffirms the fact that if you need to have a serious negotiation with NSO government, it is probably better to bypass you, because negotiations tend to work better if people know they're not going to get log dumped right after.

[Mr. Teets]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289325256' post='2508227']
Couldn't be any further from the truth. NSO set up the situation for us to press our demand by coming to this forum and dragging us through the dirt as opposed to resolving this civilly. Do you honestly think that if cooler minds had re-approached the issue, in private, this would be the outcome?
[/quote]

If it had stayed private you could demand anything you wanted and the world would never have known. As it is your King even acknowledged that you made a mistake, but because they brought this to light you're going to go through with it anyway. If you were upset that they showed the world something that painted you in a bad light, perhaps you should have avoided doing that in the first place?

[tamerlane]

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1289325247' post='2508226']
So you admit you were wrong, but because they called you out on it you are going to continue the extortion.
[/quote]

Its not because they called us out, they could have done that in private, and its certainly not extortion. I suppose the public sentiment has taken a radical U turn in regards to the way it views diplomatic decorum.

We Vanguards of Etiquette are finding it harder and harder to make our way in this increasingly barbaric world

[rsoxbronco1]

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1289325247' post='2508226']
So you admit you were wrong, but because they called you out on it you are going to continue the extortion.
[/quote]
That much is NSO's fault.

[The MVP]

[quote name='Daikos' timestamp='1289325092' post='2508221']
Yes, I wish I had a long list of accomplishments like you. Creating failed alliances... changing identities every 6 months... begging for attention on the forums. I just don't have the time or energy to ever achieve what you have.
[/quote]

I'm so much more than that, but you're right you are nothing. I do have to applaud the time and effort you put into trying to demonize and cry about NSO. Such dedication yet such cowardice it's just, I don't know great!

Edited November 9, 2010 by The MVP

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Mr. Teets' timestamp='1289325507' post='2508237']
If it had stayed private you could demand anything you wanted and the world would never have known. As it is your King even acknowledged that you made a mistake, but because they brought this to light you're going to go through with it anyway. If you were upset that they showed the world something that painted you in a bad light, perhaps you should have avoided doing that in the first place?
[/quote]

No. You're completely disregarding the standards by which diplomacy has been conducted throughout the history of this game. They could have spoken to their friends in Polar and STA and grievances, on their behalf, could have been brought to us (probably elbubu or archon) without the need for public forum. Because they decided to disregard the standard practices and take the low road, we are understandably angered and have responded accordingly.

Edited November 9, 2010 by tamerlane

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1289323724' post='2508191']
Just MK vs NSO? obviously not.

In the event of escalation, however, you'd find people willing to reciprocate the support they received from MK during their own FA blunders.
[/quote]


[quote name='ArneS' timestamp='1289324478' post='2508207']
It's pretty funny that you are telling MK they're irrelevant.

You are really dense if you believe that no one would have helped MK out when they didn't have any treaties.
[/quote]
Mr. Damnsky my point proven. Ill be here all week if you need another political lesson on just because it aint on paper doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289325256' post='2508227']
Couldn't be any further from the truth. NSO set up the situation for us to press our demand by coming to this forum and dragging us through the dirt as opposed to resolving this civilly. Do you honestly think that if cooler minds had re-approached the issue, in private, this would be the outcome?
[/quote]
Perhaps but as was adressed in the op the original offer was stupid. Should RV have negotiated yep pretty much. Should Yev and Pip been a little smarter and not fallen in to the snare RV was setting YEP. MK holding out because now its been brought to public attention only makes you look even worse IMO. Do i understand what Archon wrote you bet. THey agreed then proceeded to slap teh !@#$ out of us so now they get to pay anyway. It just appears to be more bullying from those who once were the bullied. I would have rather seen Archon slap yev a bit publicaly even though privatly he probably could have cared less, and this thread would be filled with mindless hails to Archon on how benovelent a ruler he is. Instead you have chosen a hardline for nothing else but because you can. But once again drama is here, people are active, and life is good on Bob.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Buds The Man

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1289325439' post='2508235']
Unforgivable? I don't think either are.

You couldn't have entered them in good faith, because as soon as you realized you had something you could latch on to, you ceased trying to act in a way beneficial to your alliance (get the number lowered, etc) and entirely in a way to position yourself to make the thread you made the other day. That you were looking at all to bring it public shows that you thought it would be a better idea to post this on the OWF than to negotiate with MK.

I'm glad you agree with me here that you both were wrong. I don't really care which wrong is worse than the other, just the sequence of events. MK was wrong, then instead of gaining from that wrong by negotiating a reasonable number, you went to the OWF and committed your own wrong, which exacerbated the problem and made your alliance suffer.

MK was dead wrong here, but you ruined your chance to come out of this the better by running to the OWF, and I think it reaffirms the fact that if you need to have a serious negotiation with NSO government, it is probably better to bypass you, because negotiations tend to work better if people know they're not going to get log dumped right after.
[/quote]That would imply the rest of the government didn't lie to the negotiators.

You cannot negotiate with terrists.

[Omniscient1]

Well I was hoping Archon would come back and actually stand up for morality. I am kind of disappointed. Those of you who know me know I'm much friendlier with Mk and Archon than I am with NSO and co, but this just isn't right. I honestly hope NSO tells you guys to $%&@ off.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1289325247' post='2508226']
So you admit you were wrong, but because they called you out on it you are going to continue the extortion.
[/quote]
No. They admit they were wrong, but because NSO accepted the terms without even trying to negotiate just so they could be martyrs and whine about it with a PR stunt, they still have to pay.

And I sympathize with that. It's akin to telling GOONS they don't have to pay reps for something just so you can complain about how they didn't pay reps. Oh wait that actually happened.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Beefspari

[Sardonic]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289324658' post='2508211']
Yeah, no, this doesn't cut it.
[/quote]
You forget your place, who are you to talk down to them in such a way?

[Duncan King]

Read the whole thing. Shame on you, MK, for making me agree with something NSO did. They're not a member of my alliance's extended family that I'm happy to be involved with.

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1289292720' post='2507786']
That's true, you cannot put a price on a broken heart.
[/quote]
Archon did. It's 12 million and 200 tech.

Tell me, can this fine for hurting MK's feelings be payed up front? What is the fee scale?

[Mr. Teets]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289325733' post='2508243']
No. You're completely disregarding the standards by which diplomacy has been conducted throughout the history of this game. They could have spoken to their friends in Polar and STA and grievances, on their behalf, could have been brought to us (probably elbubu or archon) without the need for public forum. Because they decided to disregard the standard practices and take the low road, we are understandably angered and have responded accordingly.
[/quote]

So you're butthurt that they showed everybody that you messed up? I'm still not seeing how that entitles you to reps.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1289325743' post='2508245']



Perhaps but as was adressed in the op the original offer was stupid. Should RV have negotiated yep pretty much. Should Yev and Pip been a little smarter and not fallen in to the snare RV was setting YEP.[/quote]

Agreed, sir.

[quote]MK holding out because now its been brought to public attention only makes you look even worse IMO. Do i understand what Archon wrote you bet. THey agreed then proceeded to slap teh !@#$ out of us so now they get to pay anyway. It just appears to be more bullying from those who once were the bullied. I would have rather seen Archon slap yev a bit publicaly even though privatly he probably could have cared less, and this thread would be filled with mindless hails to Archon on how benovelent a ruler he is. Instead you have chosen a hardline for nothing else but because you can. But once again drama is here, people are active, and life is good on Bob.
[/quote]

Slapping yev further in the OP would have done nothing more than cosmetically pander, its obvious they messed up. When it comes to the general MK masses, you cannot blame an active population for wanting drama to legitimize their activity (that doesn't excuse them for some of the more ridiculous posts that have been made but I find it, personally, understandable). Also, who isn't happy drama is back?

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Mr. Teets' timestamp='1289326160' post='2508258']
So you're butthurt that they showed everybody that you messed up? I'm still not seeing how that entitles you to reps.
[/quote]

I'm not miracle maker. I cannot help the blind see. I can only talk you through this.

Edited November 9, 2010 by tamerlane

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289326199' post='2508259']
Agreed, sir.



Slapping yev further in the OP would have done nothing more than cosmetically pander, its obvious they messed up. When it comes to the general MK masses, you cannot blame an active population for wanting drama to legitimize their activity (that doesn't excuse them for some of the more ridiculous posts that have been made but I find it, personally, understandable). Also, who isn't happy drama is back?
[/quote]
you misunderstood me fine sir i am deeply gratefull drama is back and for once Valhalla isnt at the center of it I hope this doesnt dissapoint our King Stumpy too much

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289324694' post='2508213']
I believe that was addressed in the OP.
[/quote]
"We screwed up, we know what we did was extortion. So here are the same demands, pay up or it's war in 48 hours"

Totally reasonable

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1289326347' post='2508263']
you misunderstood me fine sir i am deeply gratefull drama is back and for once Valhalla isnt at the center of it I hope this doesnt dissapoint our King Stumpy too much
[/quote]


No, I understood. That was more a rhetorical statement than questioning you on that matter. On the matter that this is not a Valhalla or Purple issue, we all weep with the dear King.

[Mr. Teets]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289326313' post='2508262']
I'm not miracle maker. I cannot help the blind see. I can only talk you through this.
[/quote]

Then talk, I'm listening. Cause I've yet to hear a reason why you deserve 12 million and 200 tech for RV posting this other than "Because we didn't like it"

[SirWilliam]

I'd pay up.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289326199' post='2508259']
Agreed, sir.



Slapping yev further in the OP would have done nothing more than cosmetically pander, its obvious they messed up. When it comes to the general MK masses, you cannot blame an active population for wanting drama to legitimize their activity (that doesn't excuse them for some of the more ridiculous posts that have been made but I find it, personally, understandable). [b]Also, who isn't happy drama is back?[/b]
[/quote]

Fine sir, it depends. When it is drama like this where you have so much whining then it is not drama, just annoying and sad. Therefore personally I'm not happy that this drama is back [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img]