AcTi Individual Surrender Terms

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289128180' post='2504941']
A single ZI for starting an alliance war with allegedly shoddy reasons? (Let's not get into the debate about whether Bat's CB is a good one or not, it's clear that the Sirius forces feel it was terrible.)

That's pretty normal.
[/quote]
CB aside, who and when was the last leader of an alliance to get ZI'd for starting a alliance war? I don't remember off hand, I am sure it must have happened at some point. I truly think it is very bad form.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289128180' post='2504941']
A single ZI for starting an alliance war with allegedly shoddy reasons? (Let's not get into the debate about whether Bat's CB is a good one or not, it's clear that the Sirius forces feel it was terrible.)

That's pretty normal.
[/quote]

Come on, broseph, like 5 AAs bandwagoned for giggles. They're not losing anything as a result of this war they chose to join for fun.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1289128329' post='2504944']
CB aside, who and when was the last leader of an alliance to get ZI'd for starting a alliance war? I don't remember off hand, I am sure it must have happened at some point. I truly think it is very bad form.
[/quote]
Moo did, I know. Haven't been keeping track of other wars.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1289128333' post='2504945']
Come on, broseph, like 5 AAs bandwagoned for giggles. They're not losing anything as a result of this war they chose to join for fun.
[/quote]
You are aware that AcTi declared on a smaller alliance to start this war, right?

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289128506' post='2504947']
Moo did, I know. Haven't been keeping track of other wars.


You are aware that AcTi declared on a smaller alliance to start this war, right?
[/quote]
Oh wow, Batallion is in the same company as Moo, how his ego will be stroked. BTW I contend it was wrong when it was done to Moo also, further I missed where ZI'ing Moo was part of the terms, but that was a long time ago when the world was first becoming enlightened by the will of Karma. I would wager it hasn't happened since.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Merrie Melodies

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289128506' post='2504947']
You are aware that AcTi declared on a smaller alliance to start this war, right?
[/quote]
I am aware that a 70% drop in NS is enough punishment for anybody.

[Skippy]

Schatten, you really need to find a better hobby, you're really boring us all in this thread, I don't even think you give a damn what the result is, you just want to *argue* something. We get it, you've made your point you don't agree with this all, that's fine, now you can just walk away, thank you.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1289126819' post='2504922']
Pfft. How predictable. They're already [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=258497"]attacking their own PoWs[/url].

Listen close, AcTi nations: PoW camps are for schmucks. Don't be schmucks; use nukes.
[/quote]

Yes, we totally made up direct orders for the bloc to start hitting our PoWs . I can't believe I'd have to tell you that obviously this guy has just gone off an out of date list or misread something along the lines. But since where do we have a history for being utter !@#$%^&* to pull something like that? It'll be sorted out, people will be backhanded and such. This !@#$ happens, and you've just jumped the gun before their gov has sorted it out.

[Vladisvok Destino]

[quote name='Sentinal' timestamp='1289127250' post='2504928']
Honestly Schat, I don't see much more than you grasping at straws with this. I'm sorry that nobody is on 24/7 to monitor the PoW lists.
[/quote]

It seems your defence of the wars against reylt was that AcTi hadn't acted against him within the first 2 hours of him attacking them, yet a nation can be on a PoW AA for over 12 hours and it's unreasonable for you to have updated your lists? Interesting difference of standards is it not?

Edited November 7, 2010 by Vladisvok Destino

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Skippy' timestamp='1289129267' post='2504953']
Schatten, you really need to find a better hobby, you're really boring us all in this thread, I don't even think you give a damn what the result is, you just want to *argue* something. We get it, you've made your point you don't agree with this all, that's fine, now you can just walk away, thank you.



Yes, we totally made up direct orders for the bloc to start hitting our PoWs . I can't believe I'd have to tell you that obviously this guy has just gone off an out of date list or misread something along the lines. But since where do we have a history for being utter !@#$%^&* to pull something like that? It'll be sorted out, people will be backhanded and such. This !@#$ happens, and you've just jumped the gun before their gov has sorted it out.
[/quote]
As long as you think it is cool and hip to ZI alliance leaders I am afraid you going to have to put up with people publicly denouncing you.

[Skippy]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1289129635' post='2504957']
As long as you think it is cool and hip to ZI alliance leaders I am afraid you going to have to put up with people publicly denouncing you.
[/quote]
Actually, I currently think that there would be a far better way we can deal with this, and I'll be negotiating it tomorrow with my fellow leaders on how we can have a far better outcome than this.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Skippy' timestamp='1289129831' post='2504959']
Actually, I currently think that there would be a far better way we can deal with this, and I'll be negotiating it tomorrow with my fellow leaders on how we can have a far better outcome than this.
[/quote]
You sir appear to be a reasonable man.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1289128734' post='2504948']
Oh wow, Batallion is in the same company as Moo, how his ego will be stroked. BTW I contend it was wrong when it was done to Moo also, further I missed where ZI'ing Moo was part of the terms, but that was a long time ago when the world was first becoming enlightened by the will of Karma. I would wager it hasn't happened since.
[/quote]
It wasn't part of the terms. It couldn't have been, it happened before the terms were signed. There were widespread ZIs in NPO because the war lasted for months.

If AcTi is held at war for say four months so they can ZI Bat, then you'll have a point. But eh, ZIing Bat is really not a big deal. Lots of people get ZIed and rebuild quickly. I've never dropped below 1.4K myself but in financial terms that's pretty much the same as ZI, especially since I was repeatedly buying to 2K that war so I could rebuy navy; it probably would have been cheaper for me to just take the ZI.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1289129245' post='2504952']
I am aware that a 70% drop in NS is enough punishment for anybody.
[/quote]
The post-Karma norm is that a 70% drop in NS is sufficient punishment for defending your allies. This guy actually started an offensive war, so obviously he gets more.

[Locke]

I really don't get why everyone has their panties in a bunch over this ZI thing. Batallion did something Sirius didn't like, so they want to punish Batallion. Other nations are offered an out if they don't support him. Is there something I'm missing here? A ZI is strong punishment, but it's not the end of the world either.

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1289126015' post='2504915']
Touché, but I don't see how the SOS Brigade is important in terms of global politics either. Nor do we maintain any illusion of being so.
[/quote]
He thinks that we think we're more important than he is because we make announcements on the OWF and that we're lapdogs to...someone, I dunno, because we didn't immediately declare on NsO. Yeah, I don't understand it either.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Locke

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1289130332' post='2504963']
I really don't get why everyone has their panties in a bunch over this ZI thing. Batallion did something Sirius didn't like, so they want to punish Batallion. Other nations are offered an out if they don't support him. Is there something I'm missing here? A ZI is strong punishment, but it's not the end of the world either.


He thinks that we think we're more important than he is because we make announcements on the OWF and that we're lapdogs to...someone, I dunno, because we didn't immediately declare on NsO. Yeah, I don't understand it either.
[/quote]
What did Batallion do to deserve such "strong punishment" Point to another time in our history when an alliance leader was punished in this way for declaring a war? I don't think I have seen anything this heinous since the "No CB" war.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1289130850' post='2504970']
What did Batallion do to deserve such "strong punishment" Point to another time in our history when an alliance leader was punished in this way for declaring a war? I don't think I have seen anything this heinous since the "No CB" war.
[/quote]
Well, Ivan got ZIed, and still hasn't recovered from it.

[Locke]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1289130850' post='2504970']
What did Batallion do to deserve such "strong punishment" Point to another time in our history when an alliance leader was punished in this way for declaring a war? I don't think I have seen anything this heinous since the "No CB" war.
[/quote]
Usually in cases where it's merited, it happens before terms are ever signed, as Haf mentioned. And I believe it's been stated he only has a few hundred infra now, just from the war effort. The difference between that and 0 to any nation with a warchest is next to nothing. It'd be better for his nation, provided he recieved peace after ZI, to submit rather than burn more warchest. The ZI [I]REALLY[/I] isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

[Scorponok]

As Skippy has stated before;

[quote name=Skippy]Actually, I currently think that there would be a far better way we can deal with this, and I'll be negotiating it tomorrow with my fellow leaders on how we can have a far better outcome than this. [/quote]

We are currently working on getting this sorted. Please be aware Batallion is not around right now...

Edited November 7, 2010 by Scorponok

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1289131134' post='2504972']
Usually in cases where it's merited, it happens before terms are ever signed, as Haf mentioned. And I believe it's been stated he only has a few hundred infra now, just from the war effort. The difference between that and 0 to any nation with a warchest is next to nothing. It'd be better for his nation, provided he recieved peace after ZI, to submit rather than burn more warchest. The ZI [I]REALLY[/I] isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.
[/quote]
As a former member of VOX I hazard I have a very good understanding of ZI, that being said, I am not arguing that ZI might or might not be the better choice for Batallion, I am arguing the the sheer notion of sentencing any alliance leader to ZI is wrong.
I am in no way arguing for Batallions actions, actually I find it funny someone so isolated would act the way he does.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289131076' post='2504971']
Well, Ivan got ZIed, and still hasn't recovered from it.
[/quote]
Now that is some good humor there, thanks for the laugh

[Locke]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1289131419' post='2504974']
As a former member of VOX I hazard I have a very good understanding of ZI, that being said, I am not arguing that ZI might or might not be the better choice for Batallion, I am arguing the the sheer notion of sentencing any alliance leader to ZI is wrong.
I am in no way arguing for Batallions actions, actually I find it funny someone so isolated would act the way he does.
[/quote]
"I was in Vox, therefore I am automatically right! Hail Karma!"
*giggle*
Again, at this point ZI with peace would benefit his nation, so I can't see why anyone would complain.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1289132212' post='2504979']
"I was in Vox, therefore I am automatically right! Hail Karma!"
*giggle*
Again, at this point ZI with peace would benefit his nation, so I can't see why anyone would complain.
[/quote]
Ahahaha, never point out that being in VOX made me right or wrong, but being under ZI for many months does give me a idea about ZI and the statement was made in regards to you attempting to instruct me on the possible benefits of ZI, of course I am sure you have personally experience the same levels of perma zi.

And what you fail to see is that, it isn't about Batallion, it is about setting the precedent that ZI'ing alliance leaders for starting a war is a good thing, it ain't, if it was you could point to several ( or one or two even ) where it has happened, and no, being ZI during a war is not the same as being [i][b]sentenced[/b][/i] to it becuase of the way you run your alliance.

[Karolina]

So, because others have done it one way, everyone else that follows has to do the same?

Honestly, it's a struggle to keep up with these ever-changing imaginary rules people conjure. It seems like that unless the sides are exactly the same strength, any act by the stronger side is evil and horrible, and that anything short of giving them complete white peace is extortion, forced disbandment etc. Admittedly, the sides aren't even close to even in this conflict but there's reasons for that, none of which are due to the immoral acts of Sirius.

Every action has a reaction. AcTi's facing overwhelming odds? Tough luck.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

ZI battalion? Is that really necessary? I know he's an idiot but that's just plain silly. But so was getting the entire of Sirius to curbstomp AcTi, either you're all really useless fighters or this is a pathetic attempt to make people take your worthless bloc seriously. Personally I think both are pretty viable theories.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Sephiroth]

I think the members of AcTi should fight until they get acceptable alliance wide terms rather than do the cowardly thing and accept these, but nice to see individual surrender terms available I guess.

[The MVP]

[quote name='Jewelangel' timestamp='1289118491' post='2504847']
[b]Feel free to keep arguing. This is what James wants and what he will get. [/b]

As for the messed up stagger... get over it. Hasn't there been enough discussion on it in other threads?
[/quote]

Oh well isn't that nice? If James wants it he [i]has[/i] to have it!

Quick someone alert Polaris and have them give a pep talk about how well this usually goes.
[quote]
VERY FAIR TERMS!

get over it guys.. [/quote]

Kevan - Mido, WANA bet.. I won it.

Edit: And before I go, isn't weird a former Polaris protectorate was tech raiding? Polaris.. are the turtles who we thought they were?

Edited November 7, 2010 by The MVP

[Skippy]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1289134370' post='2504991']
But so was getting the entire of Sirius to curbstomp AcTi, either you're all really useless fighters or this is a pathetic attempt to make people take your worthless bloc seriously. Personally I think both are pretty viable theories.
[/quote]
Actually IAA, who is also a part of Sirius, didn't fight in this war.

The alliances that are fighting are *Extremely* close, we're not just some unity bloc you join and check the forums every now and then. When one of our brothers got hit, the three of us felt we needed to help them out, plus considering TCU and ourselves hold an MDoAP with TKTB, we'd support them anyway. Is that really an issue? I thought we'd already covered that.

We have nothing to prove, and this bloc certainly isn't worthless. Once again, get your facts straight.