War Ends

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote]However, MK and SF have requested harsher reps than the NPO ever did. Being that they demanded tech from both the NPO and TOP, only payable by the top tier, both alliances are now at a permanent tech disadvantage. [/quote]
Wrong. Wonder destruction, given the 30-day clock is a permanent disadvantage. Some can't even be rebought due to infra requirements. Disbandment, that's pretty permanent too don't you think? I doubt anyone will ever request reps as harsh the the NPO and Co. First off, they started the practice of wonder destruction. To me this is the harshest term you can require, other than maybe leader expulsion or disbandment (which they did too). During the noCB war I also thought NPO was going to force MK to destroy their SDI's at first, which MK paid higher $ reps to avoid. SDIs? Are you kidding me?

Also remember that back in the day money [i]was[/i] harsher than tech, when tech had no benefit unlike it has now and tons of people were selling at $3m/150. NPO's reps in the last war were because it was the aggressor whereas all major reps NPO had people pay where when they were the defender. [b]Big[/b] difference. noCB war reps on the NpO were ridiculous since they entered under a treaty obligation, but you can thank TOP and MCXA for those, so called ex-Hegmoney alliances.

I've been around since GWIII and reps have many extremely generous from what they were before Karma, even NPO's considering their past.


[quote name='O-Dog' timestamp='1282861875' post='2432092']
You are and always will be a tool.

An unproportionate war calls for an unproportionate thread. This has delivered.
[/quote]
Hi! Have we met before? Did I nuke you in a previous war or something?

[Vol Navy]

The biggest and most important reason NPO's reps were far more harsh than MK's was the length of war faced by each prior to being given surrender.

MK was at war with NPO for 13 whole days. A far cry from the 80+ NPO was pounded on during Karma. If it was strictly looking at what was best for my nation, I'd rather face 2 weeks of war and tear down my WRC vs 80+ days of nukes then have to pay out my tech because smaller nations aren't allowed to pay it.

[Ashoka the Great]

So I haven't read this thread in a while, and I've come back to see what is (apparently) an argument about proportionality and reparations.

Nice de-rail. Kudos to whoever managed to pull it off, considering that the 'terms' given to the NSO were laughably light.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1282927347' post='2432869']
So I haven't read this thread in a while, and I've come back to see what is (apparently) an argument about proportionality and reparations.

Nice de-rail. Kudos to whoever managed to pull it off, considering that the 'terms' given to the NSO were laughably light.
[/quote]

Were as bad as they were don't ya know?

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1282927347' post='2432869']
[b]laughably light.[/b]
[/quote]

I did laugh alot when those terms were given to us. No reps to be paid, a half-ass'd forced apology, and an excellent beer review that I bet the writers had a great time doing.

Thanks RoK and cronies.

[Merrie Melodies]

I am very pleased to see that my friends on both sides have stopped swing at each other, congrats.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1282855364' post='2432007']
Wasn't MK charged tech?

I think Athens was too.
[/quote]
Yes, but their reps were payable by any nation.

Only Pacifica, Polaris and The Order of the Paradox have ever had to pay out targetted reps designed to drain large nations of tech.

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1282871814' post='2432229']
Honestly, I think the only reason 1V/Q hadn't used a minimum tech benchmark when they were drafting terms is that no one had thought of it yet. The true crimes of that era weren't the terms absolutely (though wonder decoms have been judged too harsh for even GOD to require - think about [i]that[/i] for a while) but that they imposed them on alliances who in no way deserved it.
[/quote]
The targetted tech reps were actually started by Citadel alliances.

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1282902244' post='2432666']
We did not do this to TOP or any of the alliances we defeated. In fact, the direct reps can come from any nation in their alliances (and all of them have recruited small nations for this).
[/quote]
You know perfectly well that TOP is not capable of recruiting enough small nations to pay your reps in time.

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1282922012' post='2432809']
Wrong. Wonder destruction, given the 30-day clock is a permanent disadvantage.
[/quote]
No, it's not. I went several months without buying a wonder this year due to lack of available wonders to buy.

[Feuersturm]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1282924803' post='2432835']
The biggest and most important reason NPO's reps were far more harsh than MK's was the length of war faced by each prior to being given surrender.

MK was at war with NPO for 13 whole days. A far cry from the 80+ NPO was pounded on during Karma. If it was strictly looking at what was best for my nation, I'd rather face 2 weeks of war and tear down my WRC vs 80+ days of nukes then have to pay out my tech because smaller nations aren't allowed to pay it.
[/quote]

As would I. It has been a year since the war ended, and I am just starting to come anywhere close to pre-Karma stats. We were not allowed to do tech deals for a year, which ontop of the reparations meant we could really not build up our nations.

Two weeks of nuclear war and taking down a wonder? I would have rather done that then lose tech for 80 days, and not be able to buy it back for a year. Honestly, I think our entire alliance would have been okay with each nation getting this rep, as rebuilding would have been so much quicker and easier.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Feuersturm

[Alterego]

[quote name='Feuersturm' timestamp='1282948563' post='2433167']
Two weeks of nuclear war and taking down a wonder? I would have rather done that then lose tech for 80 days, and not be able to buy it back for a year. Honestly, I think our entire alliance would have been okay with each nation getting this rep, as rebuilding would have been so much quicker and easier.
[/quote]
2 WEEKS, 2 WEEKS? Man all the moaning they did I thought it was about 2 months of war. This is comical stuff, now I know why they felt so much butthurt against TOP and continue complaining about having to actually fight a war. (but but but they wouldnt stop hitting us) LMAO at all the evil NPO name calling. Not only do people take equal or longer beatdowns by the scraps of Karma but they also get hit with multiples of the reps that were paid out to the so called evil empire.

[ooc]checking wiki[ooc]

Oh man its true they only fought for 2 weeks and still are butthurt. epic. This really made my day, cheers.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Alterego

[o-dog]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1282922012' post='2432809']
Hi! Have we met before? Did I nuke you in a previous war or something?
[/quote]

Nope. I've been witness to your asinine posting history. The kind of history that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

To the matter in hand: material reps are bad for the planet, as is the duplicity of alliance leaders.

Edited August 28, 2010 by O-Dog

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1282946875' post='2433136']
No, it's not. I went several months without buying a wonder this year due to lack of available wonders to buy.
[/quote]

Its not our fault you suck at nation building. Wonder clock is the only thing holding me back, and I fought in the last three major wars.


[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282951729' post='2433212']
2 WEEKS, 2 WEEKS? Man all the moaning they did I thought it was about 2 months of war. This is comical stuff, now I know why they felt so much butthurt against TOP and continue complaining about having to actually fight a war. (but but but they wouldnt stop hitting us) LMAO at all the evil NPO name calling. Not only do people take equal or longer beatdowns by the scraps of Karma but they also get hit with multiples of the reps that were paid out to the so called evil empire.

[ooc]checking wiki[ooc]

Oh man its true they only fought for 2 weeks and still are butthurt. epic. This really made my day, cheers.
[/quote]

I think I just lost a couple of IQ points.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1282953484' post='2433245']
Its not our fault you suck at nation building. Wonder clock is the only thing holding me back, and I fought in the last three major wars.
[/quote]
Uh, you misread that Typo.

By "lack of available wonders to buy" I mean "I have bought all of the wonders that don't require 11K infra or higher."

All of them. Even the FAC; hey it only cost me a few days' profit, and it might come in useful someday.

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='ODog']
Nope. I've been witness to your asinine posting history. The kind of history that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

To the matter in hand: material reps are bad for the planet, as is the duplicity of alliance leaders.
[/quote]
I bet you are one of those people who laugh to yourself in amusement at how amazing a wordsmith you are. Congrats on that!

[lordliam]

This is madness! Such horrible terms! But yea, congrats on peace guys.

[o-dog]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1283016939' post='2433951']
I bet you are one of those people who laugh to yourself in amusement at how amazing a wordsmith you are. Congrats on that!
[/quote]

If only.

Edited August 28, 2010 by O-Dog

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1282946875' post='2433136']
Only Pacifica, Polaris and [b]The Order of the Paradox[/b] have ever had to pay out targetted reps designed to drain large nations of tech.
[/quote]
That's a lie and you know it. (you missed echelon btw)

[quote]You know perfectly well that TOP is not capable of recruiting enough small nations to pay your reps in time.[/quote]
They can and they have. I've talked to their (now former) reps guy a lot you know! They're also done direct reps at this point.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Sandwich Controversy

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282951729' post='2433212']
2 WEEKS, 2 WEEKS? Man all the moaning they did I thought it was about 2 months of war. This is comical stuff, now I know why they felt so much butthurt against TOP and continue complaining about having to actually fight a war. (but but but they wouldnt stop hitting us) LMAO at all the evil NPO name calling. Not only do people take equal or longer beatdowns by the scraps of Karma but they also get hit with multiples of the reps that were paid out to the so called evil empire.

[ooc]checking wiki[ooc]

Oh man its true they only fought for 2 weeks and still are butthurt. epic. This really made my day, cheers.
[/quote]
heh karma hypocrites *gets white peace in every war after an even shorter period than that*

[Darth Owwp]

[center][i][size=85]"The Sith might lose a battle or two, but they will never lose the war."[/i][/size][/center]

[Augustus Autumn]

I remain perpetually shocked at the screaming ignorance expressed repeatedly in this thread. Thus, congratulations on the end of this conflict - I look forward to the mistakes which lead to this war being rehashed and repackaged in time for the next one.

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1282946875' post='2433136']
Yes, but their reps were payable by any nation.

Only Pacifica, Polaris and The Order of the Paradox have ever had to pay out targetted reps designed to drain large nations of tech.


[/quote]

Invicta is next on the list.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Jgoods45' timestamp='1283067525' post='2434578']
Invicta is next on the list.
[/quote]
Good luck with that plan.

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1283037563' post='2434286']
That's a lie and you know it. (you missed echelon btw)
[/quote]
Then why ban them from using their regular tech sellers? That's the only reason for the requirement of direct reps.

Sorry, forgot about Echelon.

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1283037563' post='2434286']
They can and they have. I've talked to their (now former) reps guy a lot you know! They're also done direct reps at this point.
[/quote]
http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=142038&Extended=1

That's not a new recruit. It took me about one minute to find him. I'm sure if I felt keen enough I'd find more examples.

[Bob Janova]

So wait, why are we talking about reps and terrible terms? I'm pretty sure this war ended with no reps and no real terms beyond surrendering and taking responsibility (and well, regarding the second, we all know how much statements like that in peace terms are really worth). Discussion of the old 'Hegemony vs Karma: who is worse' is really quite out of place, I hope everyone can agree that these terms are light!

[NoFish]

[quote name='Darth Owwp' timestamp='1283040764' post='2434320']
[center][i][size=85]"The Sith might lose a battle or two, but they will never lose the war."[/i][/size][/center]
[/quote]
No, you lost this war and the bi-polar war. That is, in fact, two wars that you have lost.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1283096380' post='2434714']
Good luck with that plan.


Then why ban them from using their regular tech sellers? That's the only reason for the requirement of direct reps.

Sorry, forgot about Echelon.


http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=142038&Extended=1

That's not a new recruit. It took me about one minute to find him. I'm sure if I felt keen enough I'd find more examples.
[/quote]
To [i]punish them[/i], obviously. We didn't go to the lengths of requiring huge nations to send it themselves, but when they pay for it and the tech still comes from their coffers it hurts them. For the great majority of TOP's reps and the entirety of most of the alliances we defeated they can use any sellers from any alliance they choose, regardless.

Why are you throwing a link to random nation at me? Look at these: http://www.cybernations.net/allNations_display_alliances.asp?Page=1&Order=DESC&Field=Alliance_Date&Alliance=The%20Order%20Of%20The%20Paradox . [i]Tons[/i] of small nations from after the war ended, which can and are being used for reps.

[kevin32891]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1283097755' post='2434725']
No, you lost this war and the bi-polar war. That is, in fact, two wars that you have lost.
[/quote]
That's from your point if view.