Biff Webster Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1282204769' post='2422935'] Morality speaking? No(But \m/ members and great part of this community doesn't care about morality) Legally speaking? Yes. The charter is what guide the alliance's processes and define it structures so without it [b]everything is possible and nothing is illegal.[/b] [/quote] I don't see anything wrong with the bolded. I wonder what the success rate is for triumvirate based governments. They seem prone to dysfunction. "In politics, the tripod is the most unstable of structures." Honestly I don't see how what Marx or whoever did about this situation is "wrong" or "illegal" unless it turns out they're not successful and \m/ falls apart. The popularity of it will probably be based on what NS is behind it, but that's a different kind of "wrong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Biff Webster' timestamp='1282204475' post='2422927'] This is why charters are silly. They are used more by foreigners to play "gotcha!" than be that guiding document some pretend them to be. If no \m/ charter existed, would this situation suddenly become ok? [/quote] I disagree. A charter is a perfectly good way of codifying and standardizing internal structure and policy. It is however important to remember that even the best charter cannot provide for every eventuality that an alliance may experience; if it can, it's probably far too long and overbearing anyway. An alliance may need to bypass the charter in a crisis - the coup of Electron Sponge comes to mind - and this is probably why many alliances treat their charters more as a set of guidelines rather than a legally binding document, but nevertheless even just as a set of guidelines, a charter is still a useful document to have. I should note that I think it is ridiculous to have something written into your charter about how to 'legally' coup the leadership. If a coup is necessary and executed by capable individuals, the support will materialize with or without a legal basis - I will once again cite the coup of Sponge as an example of this. Likewise, if a coup is not necessary but is attempted the leadership should have every right to expel those responsible; the fact that the \m/ charter forbids this is absolutely bizarre. Edited August 19, 2010 by Moridin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Webster Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 [quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1282205785' post='2422950'] I disagree. A charter is a perfectly good way of codifying and standardizing internal structure and policy. It is however important to remember that even the best charter cannot provide for every eventuality that an alliance may experience; if it can, it's probably far too long and overbearing anyway. An alliance may need to bypass the charter in a crisis - the coup of Electron Sponge comes to mind - and this is probably why many alliances treat their charters more as a set of guidelines rather than a legally binding document, but nevertheless even just as a set of guidelines, a charter is still a useful document to have. [/quote] I suppose it depends on the government structure. For a democracy, like the GPA for example, it makes sense because the government is elected to serve the guiding documents. In the Cult, the Presbyter is the final word on all things so he basically is the charter. I agree that guiding documents if present should be bypassed in an emergency. Members trying to shift the FA for better or worse without a consensus of the government (I think that is what this is?) is what I would consider an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex the Great1 Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 although i dont agree with what he did, seems like a smart move to get what he wanted right? he takes out all the people who can take him out before they can right? anyways, dont take my comment seriously, just like most of the people here, i am only posting based on stuff i have read in this thread since the incident started also, seems to me it is none of you guys problem either, i hardly see anyone who is related to this matter post in here at all, it just seems to be people who dont like \m/ and this is their chance to do as much damage as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 [quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1282170805' post='2422089'] Correct me if im wrong but isnt STA started from a group of people who couldnt hack it in \m/ back in the day? [/quote] Hey look, wickedj is wrong. AGAIN. STA was founded by Tyga, who is an Imperator Emeritus of the New Polar Order. Anyway, this whole situation kinda reminds me of my days in Purple; both sides look to be in the wrong. Going to your ally and trying to persuade them to downgrade because you like them too much is really stupid; ejecting and attacking your former government for doing so is a patent overreaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 [quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1282170805' post='2422089'] Correct me if im wrong but isnt STA started from a group of people who couldnt hack it in \m/ back in the day? [/quote] You speak of the Starfox Schism (consult your local wiki link), and it wasn't because they couldn't hack it, it was because there was drama and clearly a difference of opinion on how it was dealt with among the membership. Far be it for me to actually defend Tygaland (as if he needs my defense) but his characterization of what happened pretty much squares with everything I know about the subject. That said, even I have to admit that [b]>_<[/b] and/or [b]\m/[/b] had such drama and good people leaving through much of its existence. There was also fun, raiding, and war. Multiple wars large and small from beginning to end. No one said being a pirate was all booty calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
519 Nigras Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 [quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1282201297' post='2422854'] I know I don't care, less \m/embers is a win for everyone except the poor alliances upon whom their excess baggage is dumped. [/quote] Re-rolling and applying to NpO in 3..2..1.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fingolfin Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 [quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1282205785' post='2422950'] I should note that I think it is ridiculous to have something written into your charter about how to 'legally' coup the leadership. If a coup is necessary and executed by capable individuals, the support will materialize with or without a legal basis - I will once again cite the coup of Sponge as an example of this. Likewise, if a coup is not necessary but is attempted the leadership should have every right to expel those responsible; the fact that the \m/ charter forbids this is absolutely bizarre. [/quote] I think you're misunderstanding the situation. From what I can tell, this wasn't a roll into the Presidential Palace with 50 armed men and take control of the government at gunpoint kind of coup, this was members of the government seeking to vote a member of the triumvirate out of office, more like [OOC] Nixon being impeached for breaking U.S. Law [OOC]. I don't see why you wouldn't want to have such a measure in place for a democratically elected government at least. Votes of no confidence/impeachment procedures are pretty par for the course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 [quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1282243832' post='2423323'] I think you're misunderstanding the situation. From what I can tell, this wasn't a roll into the Presidential Palace with 50 armed men and take control of the government at gunpoint kind of coup, this was members of the government seeking to vote a member of the triumvirate out of office, more like [OOC] Nixon being impeached for breaking U.S. Law [OOC]. I don't see why you wouldn't want to have such a measure in place for a democratically elected government at least. Votes of no confidence/impeachment procedures are pretty par for the course [/quote] \m/ triumvirs are not democratically elected, they're nominated by the other triumvirs and approved by the membership, then serve for life or until resignation. I've never seen an alliance where the membership approving a nominee is anything but a rubber-stamp process. The entire advantage of a triumvirate is that you have two other triumvirs to overrule or even remove a third if the third has gone off the deep end; allowing the lower government to overthrow the triumvirate defeats the entire purpose. OOC: If we're going to make US government analogies, this is much closer to allowing the circuit courts to take a vote and throw out a Supreme Court justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fingolfin Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 [quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1282247531' post='2423387'] \m/ triumvirs are not democratically elected, they're nominated by the other triumvirs and approved by the membership, then serve for life or until resignation. I've never seen an alliance where the membership approving a nominee is anything but a rubber-stamp process. The entire advantage of a triumvirate is that you have two other triumvirs to overrule or even remove a third if the third has gone off the deep end; allowing the lower government to overthrow the triumvirate defeats the entire purpose. OOC: If we're going to make US government analogies, this is much closer to allowing the circuit courts to take a vote and throw out a Supreme Court justice. [/quote] My mistake then, I thought the \m/ triumvirate was more akin to that of the RIA which is democratically elected along with the Ministerial positions. Fair enough I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 And Marx is still nowhere to be found. I imagine he's afraid to show his face in public now. Petttttttty littttttle felllllowwww.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddick Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1282248426' post='2423405'] My mistake then, I thought the \m/ triumvirate was more akin to that of the RIA which is democratically elected along with the Ministerial positions. Fair enough I suppose [/quote] oops Edited August 19, 2010 by Riddick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3filed Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1282258889' post='2423566'] And Marx is still nowhere to be found. I imagine he's afraid to show his face in public now. Petttttttty littttttle felllllowwww.... [/quote] With the way he handled Millencolin, are you really suprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 [quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1282170805' post='2422089'] Correct me if im wrong but isnt STA started from a group of people who couldnt hack it in \m/ back in the day? [/quote] as if it takes anything more than a partially palpable pulse to be able to "hack it" in \m/, cause you know they're such badasses and all. oh also they're "blinging" or some such nonsense. i too would like to participate in blinging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1282272576' post='2423868'] oh also they're "blinging" or some such nonsense. i too would like to participate in blinging [/quote] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtwJvgPJ9xw"]Start here[/url]...but to be honest, you seem more like [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9qYF9DZPdw"]a certain other type[/url]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valtamdraugr Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1282274302' post='2423900'] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9qYF9DZPdw"]a certain other type[/url]. [/quote] Whooley crap!! I have a new theme song!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Glaucon Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1282274302' post='2423900'] to be honest, you seem more like [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9qYF9DZPdw"]a certain other type[/url]. [/quote] They see me rollin; they hatin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Please die again. Shame it probably won't be as delicious as the first time, but I can enjoy this way too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agafaba Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 [quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1282277901' post='2423982'] Please die again. Shame it probably won't be as delicious as the first time, but I can enjoy this way too. [/quote] Variety is the spice of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilcho Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 [quote name='agafaba' timestamp='1282279748' post='2424032'] Variety is the spice of life. [/quote] If this is true, then war is a big fat Jalapeno stuffed with delicious melted cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoindotnler Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 [quote name='agafaba' timestamp='1282279748' post='2424032'] Variety is the spice of life. [/quote] Seeing \m/ fail again and again is animal cruelty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 [quote name='xoindotnler' timestamp='1282334135' post='2424803'] Seeing \m/ fail again and again is animal cruelty. [/quote] And after all his big talk before all this went down, Marx has still been nowhere to be found since it started. Hahahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DictatatorDan Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 [color="#FF0000"]I am still waiting on the disbandment/coup announcment, where Marx is thrown to the wolves for being inept. It is however heartening that \m/'s handlers do keep them on a fairly short leash, otherwise they may just be the break in the chain of SF-CnG relations.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schad Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1282349756' post='2425154'] And after all his big talk before all this went down, Marx has still been nowhere to be found since it started. Hahahaha. [/quote] Edit: I need to sleep. It's CSM that left, not Marx. Edited August 21, 2010 by Schad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneprice Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 Oh noes...not ANOTHER GGA announcement... oops!!!! Sorry \m/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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