The Guru Order Offers a Helping Hand...

[JmanofAus]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='18 July 2010 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1279454596' post='2377129']Anyway, for all those who don't know, Kev isn't exactly the leader of UPN. http://s6.zetaboards.com/Unitd_Purple_Nations/topic/1026180/ He's a Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, roughly equivalent in NPO terms to an Envoy. I really doubt this came from high UPN government.
[/quote]
Kevanovi identified himself as the MoFA for UPN, I attempted to contact their Prime Minister early on to verify the proposal but was informed she was AFK.

Once their genuine Minister of Defence joined and was present for much of the conversation, it appeared to be a genuine offer.

[Hellbilly]

I know the "popular" thing to do lately is jump on the "Look how bad UPN is" bandwagon. But this is too much.

This should have been handled privately.

I know my opinion doesnt mean much. But I felt obliged to give it.

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='19 July 2010 - 01:03 AM' timestamp='1279454596' post='2377129']
Oh god, Kev.

I know you're trying to save UPN, but try to use a bit more common sense. The Guru Order?

Anyway, for all those who don't know, Kev isn't exactly the leader of UPN. http://s6.zetaboards.com/Unitd_Purple_Nations/topic/1026180/ He's a Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, roughly equivalent in NPO terms to an Envoy. I really doubt this came from high UPN government.
[/quote]

This argument would be stronger if the MoD wasn't also involved.

[DonVox]

[quote name='Ryuzaki' date='18 July 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1279455888' post='2377137']
This argument would be stronger if the MoD wasn't also involved.
[/quote]

Haf is right. The approach towards GO was not sanctioned from UPN's high gov.

I (the MoD) entered the room yes, but from the logs provided, I didn't actually say anything of note and was AFK most of the time. Kev had the best of intentions, but even the best of intentions can go awry.

[King Wally]

Wow UPN... this is some new level of FAIL your hitting here...

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

OK Kev.. it is good that you are trying to fix UPN, a noble pursuit indeed. However a merger at this time would give you precisely two things, headaches and more numbers. Only one of which would be transient, and it wont be the headache that passes.

If you as an alliance are hurting as much as you say, then what needs to be done before you attempt mergers or even more recruitment is take a good look inward. Find out what ails you, it clearly is not a lack of numbers. It is most probably nothing external to UPN and patience along with a healthy dose of commonsense would stand you in good stead while you attempt to fix all that ails you. You actually do have some people that i think are capable, work together and there would be nothing you cant solve.

Mergers are OK if you are doing great and have a healthy community thing going for you, if not, then well, then you stand to lose much more than you think you can gain.

[quote name='Borimir Resurrected' date='18 July 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1279444429' post='2376998']
As an aside, am I the only one who keeps reading this fellow's name as "JmanofAnus"?
[/quote]

Borimir I [i]know[/i] you are better than this.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Alfred von Tirpitz

[Ashoka the Great]

What a bizarre proposal.

[montypython]

o/ GO

I laughed quite hard at this.

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='Penkala' date='18 July 2010 - 04:36 AM' timestamp='1279442176' post='2376931']
Oh UPN, you're so pathetic.
[/quote]
Penkala stole the words right outta my mouth.

I wonder how many Ministers will resign because of this? Half maybe. Again. Man, just can't keep a gov anymore.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='18 July 2010 - 08:03 AM' timestamp='1279454596' post='2377129']....Kev.... [is] a Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, roughly equivalent in NPO terms to an Envoy.[/quote]

Someone should tell him that, since:

[quote][2010-07-18 13:53:15] =-= Topic for #ava is ``Kev's office | Proud Former MoFA of Viridian Entente, Confederacy Of Independent States, Sparta, Imperial Assault Alliance| Resident of Planet Bob since '06 | [b]Proud MoFA of United Purple Nations[/b]''[/quote]
[quote][2010-07-18 13:57:59] <Kevanovia> Also, I didn't really introduce myself I'm UPN's MoFA[/quote]

Also:

[quote name='DonVox' date='18 July 2010 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1279456212' post='2377141']
Haf is right. The approach towards GO was not sanctioned from UPN's high gov. [/quote]

You were there. You were not idling in the channel when the conversation began, but were clearly asked to join. I find it highly unlikely that you did not know what the conversation was about.

[quote]I (the MoD) entered the room yes, but from the logs provided, I didn't actually say anything of note and was AFK most of the time.[/quote]

This is one of the worst excuses I have ever seen.

"Sure I joined the channel, but I didn't say much so my hands are clean."

What a wonderful way to throw an alliance-mate under the bus.

You were there. If you weren't paying attention while this farce was playing before your eyes, then you've no one to blame but yourself.

[Lennox]

Poor UPN. Thankfully the Sith Lords of NSO have shown mercy and have agreed to accept your huddled masses.

[DonVox]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' date='18 July 2010 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1279462085' post='2377212']
Someone should tell him that, since:




Also:



You were there. You were not idling in the channel when the conversation began, but were clearly asked to join. I find it highly unlikely that you did not know what the conversation was about.



This is one of the worst excuses I have ever seen.

"Sure I joined the channel, but I didn't say much so my hands are clean."

What a wonderful way to throw an alliance-mate under the bus.

You were there. If you weren't paying attention while this farce was playing before your eyes, then you've no one to blame but yourself.
[/quote]

Did I think it was a good idea, or initiated the conversation in the first place? No. Should I have explicitly asked for it to be stopped? Yes.

[Kevanovia]

Okay:

First of all DonVox told me it was a very lame idea but went along with it because I told him to trust me.
With that out of the way....

I was hoping that the merge wouldn't be a "1-2-poof!" event, I was hoping it would take months and months of getting to know each other and hard work. This was very poor judgment on my end, and this was all me. Like jman said, Peggy was gone. I took the initiative in doing what I thought was a good idea, asking for an eventual merge.

When I woke up this morning I didn't expect to see this, and I have some new feelings for the GO that I didn't have before (not the best feelings I might add), these logs are valid. I step down from my position of DMoFA or MoFA, or whatever.

Thanks for stepping on me

[Gamemaster1]

You've been the MoFA (or DMoFA I suppose ) of that many alliances, Kev?

I wouldn't think someone that experienced would be so keen on asking for mergers. Much less a lot of them..

[Cotillion]

upn this is the exact opposite of what you should be doing if you want to fix your terrible alliance hth

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

UPN failed, no doubt about it. Making it public however, especially in such a humiliating way, is a very cheap attempt to score a few PR points with the drama-starved masses. I would understand if they were your enemies but they're an alliance who visibly needs a hand. This is like making fun of a beggar because his "give me food" sign has a typo.

[AVFC1]

[quote name='justavictim82' date='18 July 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1279452862' post='2377116']
This.

I feel it kind of funny that alliances are attacking UPN about this right now. Its not like your alliance has never had a bad PR move or an issue in foreign relations. GO did not need to do this and could have settled this behind closed doors.
[/quote]

Yes many alliances have done silly things in the past, but this latest move from UPN is utterly desperate and pathetic. They could have settled this behind closed doors but why? Hilarious things should be shared with the masses so everyone can enjoy it.

[Coverzin]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' date='18 July 2010 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1279465992' post='2377246']
UPN failed, no doubt about it. Making it public however, especially in such a humiliating way, is a very cheap attempt to score a few PR points with the drama-starved masses. I would understand if they were your enemies but they're an alliance who visibly needs a hand. This is like making fun of a beggar because his "give me food" sign has a typo.
[/quote]

It's rather more like making fun of a beggar because of a typo on his "Give me your house because you don't know how to use it properly" sign.

[atlashill]

Talk about desperation. While I'm not thrilled about the manner in which Guru Order made this public, this is just another page in the inevitable collapse of UPN as we know it. If UPN were truly looking to better its alliance for the long term, it would have sought help from the people they decided were their bestest buddies in the whole world: Polaris and ODN, or perhaps swallow their pride and/or paranoia and approached its neighbors in Purple.

Instead, this appears to be a desperate attempt to maintain the UPN name, regardless of the culture, people, and history of themselves and those they're opening contact with by way of throwing darts at a map of Planet Bob whilst blindfolded. There appears to have been no effort to build tighter bridges with whom they already have bridges, nor any effort to rebuild bridges they and/or their erstwhile allies have burned. A competent alliance would have given careful thought and consideration to their own alliance's history and culture before even broaching the subject of a merge with a close friend.

If UPN can't identify and establish a culture worth getting their own people to embrace, let alone nations they hope to recruit, then it's not worth convincing another alliance to join them. I've said for a long time that alliances whose members treat the AA like an insurance policy are destined to fall apart, and frankly, UPN's running on the slogan "you gotta join an alliance, you want to save your precious infra, do both with UPN."

Although this post might have thrown more kerosene on the bridge leading to the Jay Nixon Museum for Observing the Anhydration of Mastic Substances in Edina, I'm more than willing to scrub it off and provide, to the best of my ability, any assistance that UPN may ask of Invicta to identify, establish, and perpetuate UPN's unique culture, if any.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Atlashill

[Baldr]

I suggest IRON merge into UPN so UPN can help finish off Gramlins.

[Hymenbreach]

The first rule of CN Diplomacy;

Anything you say, write, or communicate in any way will be used against you one day, sooner or later.

This came pretty soon, but let's at least hope it's a lesson learned.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Hymenbreach

[Homura]

I hated both of these alliances already, and this announcement gives me more of a reason to do so.

I also suggest UPN makes me their viceroy if they want an active and competent government member and cannot obtain any from the hundreds of nations under that AA.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Katsumi

[Stilcho]

[quote name='Dementual' date='18 July 2010 - 01:53 AM' timestamp='1279443166' post='2376956']
Public humiliation is a staple of Planet Bob.
[/quote]

Public humiliation is pretty much the basis of ALL humor.

[Un4Gvn1]

While some of the world laughs and some rolls their eyes and others tell the log dumpers they're not going to be as trusted in the future .....


UPN is indeed working to overcome hardships.

We have a good core government group that stands firm in the face of each catastrophe that comes along; DonVox is the rock ... the example of integrity and hard work we all hope to emulate.

Kevanovia is an enthusiastic deputy in government that has tried the best he knows to help his alliance. Has he been too enthusiastic in this regard? Yes.

Did we all learn that not all private talks will be respected and remain private? Ah, yes, for the umteenth time, yes.

Merging with a smaller alliance was Kev's idea. I didn't like it because I was in TPF for 2 mergers and I had a bad taste in my mouth from both.

I was advised to trust more -- we all know I've been burnt several times in the realm of who I chose to trust -- and I genuinely trust Kev and his work ethic and his good intentions for UPN. I still do.

After the 2nd offer I told him to not make any more offers to anyone. I said we shall continue working on internal matters, build the new forum, and go on a recruiting drive in the coming weeks.

For some reason he chose to not listen to my request for no more merger talks. His judgement in this case is colored with extreme enthusiasm and I am not angry and I hope he chooses to put the deputy mofa hat back on.

To our allies and to those who spoke up for us in this thread I want you to know that UPN will recover from everything that comes her way.

We are strengthening internally. UPN is doing fine, we are preparing to start over with new fourms, new flag, a better charter, while keeping our current Gov in place until the elections, and strengthening our ties with the purple sphere, one alliance friendship at a time.

We are receiving help from friends. ODN is visiting our forum and offering advice and I talk with NpO as often as I can; I get and take their advice.

I know this world communication venue loves to have someone as the butt of their jokes; it is UPN's turn now.
I take this with a grain of salt, so to speak.

We welcome your questions via IRC or PM, though I am very busy with new forum issues today I may delay in answering your questions.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='AVFC1' date='18 July 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1279466217' post='2377249']Hilarious things should be shared with the masses so everyone can enjoy it.[/quote]

It's not just that.

Two UPN government members (one of whom misrepresented his position) were involved in a merger discussion with an alliance they have no ties with and had never even spoken to before. Absent some kind of agreement to keep everything confidential, The Guru Order was under no obligation whatsoever to keep a random, weird offer from complete strangers a secret.

If anything, letting others know about this is a public service. And not just because it's hilarious. UPN's allies may come here and complain about GO's "PR stunt" -- I don't happen to believe that's what this is, but that's beside the point -- but they have been given a glimpse into what some members of the UPN's government think of their own alliance.

[quote name='Coverzin' date='18 July 2010 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1279466364' post='2377253']
It's rather more like making fun of a beggar because of a typo on his "Give me your house because you don't know how to use it properly" sign.
[/quote]

Close, but I think the offer was more like, "Abandon your nice house and move into our crappy house because we can't afford our mortgage payments and people keep moving out. You won't get the title to the crappy house or anything like that, but I'll see what I can do about getting you a nice room."