I think I owe someone an apology

[wickedj]

Its only Grub, i doubt he remembers anyway those nice folks in white robes will be sure to explain it to him

Also i want to echo the statements of rsox, Athens is terrible and you should feel bad for being treatied to them

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='cookavich' date='07 July 2010 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1278530708' post='2362619']
This wasn't even an action done against Polar... why would we care?
[/quote]

An ex-leader (who wasn't involved) of an alliance (that was involved) apologizes to an ex-leader (who was involved) of an alliance (that wasn't involved).

It sounded better in my head.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Biff Webster

[Gopherbashi]

And here I that development was dead and forgotten...

[quote name='magicninja' date='07 July 2010 - 10:11 AM' timestamp='1278511850' post='2362386']
It turns out I really didn't understand where Grub's animosity was coming from. I joined GATO and the world in June of 2007. That was months after GWIII and just after GATO had finished paying reps. I have since read about GWIII but it was mostly from GATO's perspective and I confess I never did seek out any real details of what went down. It turns out GATO peaced out of that war without ever telling NAAC and possibly other allies that came to her defense that it was doing so. That is completely unacceptable. What makes it worse is some good alliances disbanded because of that war. GATO wasn't one of them.
[/quote]

If I recall correctly, breaking our MDP with you in response was - disbanding aside - our last ever action.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Baldr' date='07 July 2010 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1278529688' post='2362602']
Considering Grub started a war, then changed sides after alliances joined to support NpO, he doesn't have any grounds to !@#$%*.
[/quote]

At risk of being totally off topic... the very notion that Grub changed sides after alliances entered to "support NpO..." is ludicrous, and has been proven false through logs with TOP leadership. The truth is, TOP could have cared less for Polar, but saw an opening that gave them and their allies a chance to kill CnG and her friends with reasonable hope of success. Apologies for off topic, but im sick of seeing people claim that their entry into the war was to support polar... it just wasnt.


On topic... MN is a class guy, and I am proud to call him an ally.

[chefjoe]

I guess GATO is looking to cozy up to polaris eh?

PR is the only reason I can see for a public apology of this nature.

w/e kudos on swallowing your pride I guess.

[Fallen Fool]

Good going? I guess?

[quote name='chefjoe' date='07 July 2010 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1278539777' post='2362768']
I guess GATO is looking to cozy up to polaris eh?

PR is the only reason I can see for a public apology of this nature.

w/e kudos on swallowing your pride I guess.
[/quote]If this is an attempt to cozy up to Polar then it's one of the more misguided ones I've seen, as the only person who would care is retired and fairly removed from the policy-making process.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Fallen Fool

[Bob Janova]

You don't really need to apologise for this, classy though it is to admit to past failings. And yes, it's deeply ironic that Grub's last action as a major political figure was to go one better and not just abandon his coalition partners but actually switch sides and fight against them.

[supercoolyellow]

There certaintly needs to be a point where we can let bygones be bygones, and not hold something against an alliance that they did a year or two ago.

[Xiphosis]

...why even apologize so late after the fact?

[Lusitan]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='08 July 2010 - 12:35 AM' timestamp='1278545695' post='2362880']
There certaintly needs to be a point where we can let bygones be bygones, and not hold something against an alliance that they did a year or two ago.
[/quote]

If it was only a year or two ago..

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote]At risk of being totally off topic... the very notion that Grub changed sides after alliances entered to "support NpO..." is ludicrous, and has been proven false through logs with TOP leadership. The truth is, TOP could have cared less for Polar, but saw an opening that gave them and their allies a chance to kill CnG and her friends with reasonable hope of success. Apologies for off topic, but im sick of seeing people claim that their entry into the war was to support polar... it just wasnt.[/quote]
I'll go off topic and respond to that one: please.

Our group (like, not only TOP) entered against C&G as part of a broader coalition effort. We were in it to support Polaris coalition. Any claim to the contrary is pure revisionism. Both our leaders and those of Polaris have acknowledged the fact that we had planned with them and were entering on their behalf, against our most potent still unengaged enemies.

If you want to keep on claiming the opposite, I suggest that you hit us up at Paradoxia so we can have a chat. Don't worry, we're friendly folks, just ask Londo.

@Magicninja: a tad weird to apologize so late after the fact but if it makes you feel better with yourself, I guess it's a good process.

[Valerius]

To deny treaty negotiations because of an alliance's name and flag is silly. After all, that is more or less all GATO's foreign policy shares with what it used to be. Either Grub did not see this, or he saw it and chose to ignore it. Either way, it was his mistake.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Biff Webster' date='07 July 2010 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1278531316' post='2362632']
It sounded better in my head.
[/quote]
I thought it was hilarious.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='chefjoe' date='07 July 2010 - 10:56 PM' timestamp='1278539777' post='2362768']
I guess GATO is looking to cozy up to polaris eh?

PR is the only reason I can see for a public apology of this nature.

w/e kudos on swallowing your pride I guess.
[/quote]

Just to clear things up Magicninja isn't GATO gov. I really have no idea why this topic was made, but if Magic felt a need to give a personal apology that is fine.

I guess your comments is Valhala's way of trying to bait GATO into a war then hmmm? People can be so stupid sometimes.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Omniscient1

[Baldr]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='07 July 2010 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1278535668' post='2362686']
At risk of being totally off topic... the very notion that Grub changed sides after alliances entered to "support NpO..." is ludicrous, and has been proven false through logs with TOP leadership. The truth is, TOP could have cared less for Polar, but saw an opening that gave them and their allies a chance to kill CnG and her friends with reasonable hope of success. Apologies for off topic, but im sick of seeing people claim that their entry into the war was to support polar... it just wasnt.
[/quote]

I don't know why you are lying about this. Everyone knows.

NpO was at war with several alliances. They had a number of allies fighting on their side. TOP and IRON joined on the NpO side, at which point NpO declared peace (in about 30 minutes) without warning any of their allies. Then they reentered on the other side. This effectively screwed the alliances who had entered on NpO's side.

Everyone knows this happened. Lying about it won't change it. Even if you believe that TOP and IRON joined the war for completely unrelated reasons, they were not the only alliances who had joined NpO. There were already alliances supporting NpO before they joined. And despite your claiming it didn't happen, it did.

I can at least understand why dishonest people lie when they think they won't get caught, but when it's stuff that everyone knows, I really don't see the point.

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='Baldr' date='08 July 2010 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1278558583' post='2363053']
I don't know why you are lying about this. Everyone knows.

NpO was at war with several alliances. They had a number of allies fighting on their side. TOP and IRON joined on the NpO side, at which point NpO declared peace (in about 30 minutes) without warning any of their allies. Then they reentered on the other side. This effectively screwed the alliances who had entered on NpO's side.

Everyone knows this happened. Lying about it won't change it. Even if you believe that TOP and IRON joined the war for completely unrelated reasons, they were not the only alliances who had joined NpO. There were already alliances supporting NpO before they joined. And despite your claiming it didn't happen, it did.

I can at least understand why dishonest people lie when they think they won't get caught, but when it's stuff that everyone knows, I really don't see the point.
[/quote]

The other people you refer to were actually at war with people who were already involved in the war. Now lets stop the derailment and go back to whatever the hell we were doing before.

[magicninja]

[quote name='chefjoe' date='07 July 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1278539777' post='2362768']
I guess GATO is looking to cozy up to polaris eh?

PR is the only reason I can see for a public apology of this nature.

w/e kudos on swallowing your pride I guess.
[/quote]

Nah, that hasn't been brought up since Grub made his statement on our forums.

Also, I realize the apology from me to ex-NAAC is basically empty. Like I said I wasn't even around then but that doesn't stop me from feeling bad that the alliance I know and love had once done that to it's friends. There are still folks who harbor a lot of resentment towards the GATO brand for it. I just wanted them to know that the current GATO leadership is not what it was then. Hell, Chris_Kaos' application to GATO has been denied twice in the last year. Walford only lasted in the new GATO about 2-3 weeks before he packed up and left.

The bottom line is I need a good reason to be an !@#$%^&. When I don't have a good reason I start to feel guilty and this thread is just that guilt manifested into reality. Grub probably doesn't even care and that's fine. I needed to get it off my chest and maybe we can have a decent discussion about the past and how some people like to shoot their mouths without knowing what it is their talking about.

[lmcfalcon12]

Double post..FTL.

Sorry.

Edited July 8, 2010 by lmcfalcon12

[lmcfalcon12]

Its always nice to see someone swallow their pride when necessary and admit when they are wrong.

Props to you. This world and CN could use more people like you.

[AlmightyGrub]

Hi

There is no need at all to apologize to me. I think the way I do usually for reasons I consider valid, your mileage is always entitled to be different if you so choose.

As for the rest of the thread, it is a sad sad day at Cat Rock when this nonsense starts up again. If you want to discuss what happened send a PM or catch me on IRC if you can.

I clearly did something, I did it for a reason and people are upset. I have apologized in the only terms I ever intend to, come and find me when you are ready to roll tanks for revenge or something etc etc. I am waiting, please do not be disappointing me by being the better man and so forth.

[magicninja]

Good. Now I can go back to finding good reasons to be an !@#$%^&.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='chefjoe' date='07 July 2010 - 10:56 PM' timestamp='1278539777' post='2362768']
I guess GATO is looking to cozy up to polaris eh?

PR is the only reason I can see for a public apology of this nature.

[/quote]
You guessed wrong as others have pointed out, if this was a PR stunt the OP would have been posted by a senior member of GATO's govt and would probably be sporting a GATO banner

[Lord Rune]

[quote name='magicninja' date='08 July 2010 - 08:07 AM' timestamp='1278572804' post='2363252']
Good. Now I can go back to finding good reasons to be an !@#$%^&.
[/quote]

Should take you two days, tops.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Cataduanes' date='08 July 2010 - 05:29 AM' timestamp='1278592135' post='2363356']
You guessed wrong as others have pointed out, if this was a PR stunt the OP would have been posted by a senior member of GATO's govt and would probably be sporting a GATO banner
[/quote]

Really all I have to say about all of you whom have 'qouted' my statement to refute it, is you are making it seem more plausable that im right.

you all appear to be a little touchy about that subject for some reason, hell even Cata replied and he isnt even PART of GATO.

Falls under the heading of 'Thou dost protest to much methinks'

/me shrugs

[magicninja]

[quote name='chefjoe' date='08 July 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1278613653' post='2363614']
Really all I have to say about all of you whom have 'qouted' my statement to refute it, is you are making it seem more plausable that im right.

you all appear to be a little touchy about that subject for some reason, hell even Cata replied and he isnt even PART of GATO.

Falls under the heading of 'Thou dost protest to much methinks'

/me shrugs
[/quote]

Oh c'mon CJ. You !@#$@#$ know me man. I made a mistake, so I apologized. We haven't talked to Polaris in months and as far as I know they aren't in our big picture at all. You really need to find something to do man if all you have do is wonder about my motives. Go watch some Trailer Park Boys.