The New Grämlins

[shilo]

I found some of ram's comments regarding MK (for whom they entered the war according to MPK) quite funny. Whoever said that ram hates everyone and every alliance in CN (and gRAMlins less/thought that obviously is not true ) was truly right.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Andre27' date='26 June 2010 - 03:29 AM' timestamp='1277548133' post='2350858']
Which, in my opinion, is why this is merely an attempt to make Gramlins look good and IRON/DAWN look bad.
All of this is ridiculous.

[/quote]
Having seen the proposed preamble, lemme tell you, you are [i]spot on[/i] in that analysis.

(If I get permission to share it publicly, I will do so)

[amad123]

[quote]Ramirus Maximus said.

I spent 20 years in US Intelligence, military and civilian. I've taught Constitutional Law, and I've have a library of literally hundreds of books on military history, each of which I've read at least once (it's my major hobby, and one of the reasons I started playing CN to begin with). I'm not boasting when I say that I can easily claim to have a better grasp of the concept than the average 18-year old punk on the internet.[/quote]

So the leader of Gramlins has considerable training and experience, you would think that with all that experience he would know that if you want to get someone to surrender you lay your cards on the table and show how good surrender will be for them. Not “Surrender Unconditionally” and then I will tell you your fate. I mean US Intelligence ( what CIA), and with all those books you think he would have read Sun Tsu’s Art of War and remembered


[quote]Sun Tsu
36. When you surround an army, leave an outlet free.
Do not press a desperate foe too hard.[/quote]

By offering “Unconditional Surrender” and not presenting the terms of peace you pressed too hard and left no road other than continued war. With all your great experience and knowledge you failed to understand what was required to obtain peace and let your ego guide you into a position that was unwinnable.


[quote]Ramirus Maximus said.

We first requested unconditional surrender on March 27th. If IRON had surrendered then, they would've likely been finished with their peace terms from us by Easter.[/quote]

So you threw that all away because you didn’t want to reveal your terms until after surrender was achieved. Terms that were so lenient they could be completed in a week. Well done I say, well done! You have learned to lead your alliance in a manner that all great military leaders would be proud of. You have managed to arrange defeat when victory was within your grasp. Your actions will no doubt cause many to re-evaluate their confidence in US Intelligence and the US Military. It’s a game, learn to play it well or face the consequences.

You have no idea how I wish someone with your experience and knowledge could have pulled off obtaining peace before the destruction of your alliance. That fact that 18 year old punks could get the better of you must be a terrible burden to bear.


.

[TehChron]

To be fair, Ramirus simply could have been lying. Based on this conversation and other things Ive seen, it becomes clear that the only thing greater than Ramirus' ego is his baffling ignorance.

Hell, even the circumstances around which the war developed seem to be beyond the scope of his knowledge.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Chron

[peron]

Ramirus's ego is only matched by his hatred toward every that is not him. You can see in the logs how he starts off hoping JKI will agree with him. When he shows that he has his own thoughts on the idea, Ramirus switches to insults. Its the "if you don't agree with me your X" thought process.

So much for Ram being older and much more mature and intelligent than the rest of us "kids"

[Clash]

Yepp, having read those posts, imho, Ramirus is totally committed.
Or, should be, for a good long while.
Somewhere very quiet.
Without internet.
Amen.

[Yggdrazil]

Peace proposals unaccompanied by a sworn covenant indicate a plot.- Sun Tsu

Often those incompetent, never realize they are incompetent.Errors in judgment cannot be addressed due to an inability to access "feed back" mechanisms.[indent]"If you knew it, you’d say, 'Wait a minute. The decision I just made does not make much sense. I had better go and get some independent advice.' But when you’re incompetent, the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is. In logical reasoning, in parenting, in management, problem solving, the skills you use to produce the right answer are exactly the same skills you use to evaluate the answer."[/indent]

Edited June 27, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[Clash]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='26 June 2010 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1277572130' post='2351051']Often those incompetent, never realize they are incompetent.[/quote]
I'm on with that. I also don't consider Ram to be stupid.
That said: Incompetence + ignorance + arrogance = lolGre

[Gobb]

[quote name='Clash' date='26 June 2010 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1277570938' post='2351040']
Yepp, having read those posts, imho, Ramirus is totally committed.
Or, should be, for a good long while.
Somewhere very quiet.
Without internet.
Amen.
[/quote]
As much as I'm glad to see Grämlins' numbers wither to a point where IRON can effectively end this most unfortunate conflict, I can't help but feel a bit disturbed by this here comment.

Makes me very unhappy inside to see so much hatred and detestation.

No butterflies fly in my belly tonight

[Derantol]

[quote name='Kalasin' date='26 June 2010 - 04:07 AM' timestamp='1277550460' post='2350866']
That's true, his behaviour after his initial demand for unconditional surrender really didn't help things, but the whole concept of unconditional surrender is retarded and didn't help him much at all.

Plus, I don't think he really thought that 'his righteousness would win the day.' It's probably more that he wanted to satisfy his own ego by throwing his weight around and demonstrate that Gramlins would not be messed with. Oh, and also his paranoia that the Hegemony would rise again and kill us all. As if you could, in the current climate.
[/quote]

As if we'd want to, in the current climate. There aren't many that are really worried about the ex-Hegemony rising again in the current climate, but there are many more who would gladly participate in shutting it down again. Who would want to rise again only to be struck down?

Oh, did I not put quotes around "righteousness"? I don't remember if I did. Anyway, his "righteousness" would be extrapolated from his ego, if you follow this model.

[Eric Cantona]

I'm going to remind you to stay IC.

[amad123]

[quote name='Lord Gobb' date='26 June 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1277573696' post='2351059']
As much as I'm glad to see Grämlins' numbers wither to a point where IRON can effectively end this most unfortunate conflict, I can't help but feel a bit disturbed by this here comment.Makes me very unhappy inside to see so much hatred and detestation.No butterflies fly in my belly tonight
[/quote]
While some posts do show outright hatred, one needs to carefully understand what the intention is of the posts. I sure several of my posts may be considered to show hatred on some level and that could easily be misinterpreted. I do not hate any individual Gramlin, I dislike what they are doing and I dislike how they are playing their hand. So one could say I "hate" their alliance although I would say my dislike of them is not extreme enough to truly be "hate".

On an individual level I feel more pity for them. I pity that they did not realize that they would fail in their attempt to bring other world morals to planet Bob. I feel pity that they refuse to negotiate and leave us the only option of war to deal with them. When you leave us only one option don't be surprised that we take that option and use every tactic available to us to prevail in our quest to render Gre harmless. If you won't negotiate, if your not open to discussion then we cannot be free of you until you are rendered harmless. For that you have my pity, and I will send a few nukes as well.

[Bilrow]

[quote name='amad123' date='26 June 2010 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1277576444' post='2351101']
While some posts do show outright hatred, one needs to carefully understand what the intention is of the posts. I sure several of my posts may be considered to show hatred on some level and that could easily be misinterpreted. I do not hate any individual Gramlin, I dislike what they are doing and I dislike how they are playing their hand. So one could say I "hate" their alliance although I would say my dislike of them is not extreme enough to truly be "hate".

On an individual level I feel more pity for them. I pity that they did not realize that they would fail in their attempt to bring other world morals to planet Bob. I feel pity that they refuse to negotiate and leave us the only option of war to deal with them. When you leave us only one option don't be surprised that we take that option and use every tactic available to us to prevail in our quest to render Gre harmless. If you won't negotiate, if your not open to discussion then we cannot be free of you until you are rendered harmless. For that you have my pity, and I will send a few nukes as well.
[/quote]

I don't feel pity, they made their decision by voting and by staying in the alliance for this long.

[chefjoe]

Gremlins, just die allready. This thread needs to die, its annoying and old.

Also, if this Ramirus guy truly had all the experience he claims, its as a desk jockey or analyst working as a mindless cog in a broken machine. True intel people certainly dont brag about it in browser games on the internet....

Anyhow it was good for a second of laughing at his idiocy I guess, kudos RAM you are starting to hit RyanGDI status.

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='26 June 2010 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1277580212' post='2351136']
I don't feel pity, they made their decision by voting and by staying in the alliance for this long.
[/quote]
You're just jealous Ram's being hated more than you right now.

[Bilrow]

[url=http://www.cybernations.net/allNations_display_alliances.asp?Alliance=The%20Gr%E4mlins]Gremlins are down to 18 nations now.[/url]


RAWR

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='27 June 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1277688882' post='2352349']
[url=http://www.cybernations.net/allNations_display_alliances.asp?Alliance=The%20Gr%E4mlins]Gremlins are down to 18 nations now.[/url]


RAWR
[/quote]
Well this is going quicker than I expected. At this point IRON could probably "Suicide Charge* them without take obscene damage but I still wouldn't recommend it.

Edited June 28, 2010 by BlkAK47002

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='BlkAK47002' date='27 June 2010 - 10:47 PM' timestamp='1277693257' post='2352394']
Well this is going quicker than I expected. At this point IRON could probably "Suicide Charge* them without take obscene damage but I still wouldn't recommend it.
[/quote]

Well its not like Gre has ever declared any offensive wars is the last month or so, as long as they get to dictate engagements to their benefit IRON might as well keep doing what they doing. Its slow, but as asserted 200 pages ago, they will win eventually.

[Artigo]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='27 June 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1277696118' post='2352425']
Well its not like Gre has ever declared any offensive wars is the last month or so, as long as they get to dictate engagements to their benefit IRON might as well keep doing what they doing. Its slow, but as asserted 200 pages ago, they will win eventually.
[/quote]

Ertyy declared on Matt Miller

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

Yet another month has gone by and no end in sight. Give it up Grämlins, it is not the end of the world. Think of it this way, if it is contrition you desire, you will have to choke it out of your opponent, and then it is coerced, not genuine.

Genuine confession and desire to atone for the act of waging war on your friends, will never come about. Even if you did have the ability to project force, even if you did have the overt backing of allies and even if you could put them in a position where unconditional surrender was the only option they could consider. That act of surrender, would be more out of a desire to prevent further damage than any genuine desire to atone. The world does not work that way. Neither here, nor anywhere else.

There are no demons here. Nor are there any saints.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Ojiras Ajeridas' date='26 June 2010 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1277543051' post='2350839']
How can Ramirus demand an amendment to ESA? I mean, the Easter Sunday Accords is a treaty signed by many alliances months ago. An amendment to ESA would include each signatory - and I can hardly imagine that everyone would agree to it.
[/quote]


I don't necessarily personally agree with the ESA amendment, but there is absolutely no reason why all of the signatories couldn't agree to amend it.


[quote name='Bilrow' date='26 June 2010 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1277580212' post='2351136']
I don't feel pity, they made their decision by voting and by staying in the alliance for this long.
[/quote]


I agree.
We have all endorsed this policy by supporting and electing our leaders.
All of those "blaming" this policy on Ram's ego are looking for a convenient way out. Kindly stop wasting your time; it should be obvious by now that we endorse the policy.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Matthew PK

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='27 June 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1277688882' post='2352349']
[url=http://www.cybernations.net/allNations_display_alliances.asp?Alliance=The%20Gr%E4mlins]Gremlins are down to 18 nations now.[/url]


RAWR
[/quote]


Thank you, my [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=357&showentry=1752"]Gramlins Death Watch blog entry[/url] is now updated.

[Bergerland]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='28 June 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1277699235' post='2352454']
We have all endorsed this policy by supporting and electing our leaders.
All of those "blaming" this policy on Ram's ego are looking for a convenient way out. Kindly stop wasting your time; it should be obvious by now that we endorse the policy.
[/quote]

Glad to know that you're all insane and it isn't just Ramirus.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='27 June 2010 - 11:27 PM' timestamp='1277699235' post='2352454']
I don't necessarily personally agree with the ESA amendment, but there is absolutely no reason why all of the signatories couldn't agree to amend it.





I agree.
We have all endorsed this policy by supporting and electing our leaders.
All of those "blaming" this policy on Ram's ego are looking for a convenient way out. Kindly stop wasting your time; it should be obvious by now that we endorse the policy.
[/quote]

honestly, i would have to say it is all Grämlins fault. for one, why should TOP/TORN/TSO have to accept this new ammendment? and two, why should IRON/DAWN? i would guarantee had it not been for Ram's little ego trip that failed, ya'll could have had this amendment added from day one. yet Ram and Grämlins had to do a little ego trip that severely backfired. now that it is quite clear, ya'll getting crushed and IRON/DAWN will not concede a darn thing to ya'll, you backpedal into this pathetic amendment.

sorry, ya'll lost a war you had once won. good job. ya'll the dumbest alliance on this planet currently. next time, leave the ego outside the negotiation room and ya'll might fare better. in fact, i would suggest ya'll do so now and accept the white peace. the only alliance to blame for Gremlins being destroyed is Gremlins. the only alliance to blame for this war continuing is Gremlins. no one else no matter how hard you try to spin it MPK. this is Gremlins and more specifically Ram's ego that caused this.

[Baldr]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='27 June 2010 - 11:27 PM' timestamp='1277699235' post='2352454']
I don't necessarily personally agree with the ESA amendment, but there is absolutely no reason why all of the signatories couldn't agree to amend it.[/quote]

I think it's funny that Gramlins, a self proclaimed Paperless Alliance, is trying to force everyone to retroactively change an agreement made months ago, which Gramlins refused to sign.

The logic doesn't hold up. Partly because you are losing, and so in no position to force anyone to do anything. But mostly because of the "retroactively changing" nonsense. If NPO were to win a major war, would they be able to re-write their surrender terms from Karma? That would be nonsense.

What happened, happened. If you want an agreement to end the current conflict, then make a proposal, but quit pretending you can change the past.

For myself, your hypocrisy has gone on long enough. I've signed up with DAWN, and I'm looking forward to getting involved.