The New Grämlins

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='10 May 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1273530474' post='2294004']
If you don't believe justice has been served because IRON didn't have to admit they were wrong, why couldn't you just have made admitting they were wrong one of the terms instead of dragging things out like this? It seems like a more direct approach that probably would have worked, as opposed to this one that clearly isn't turning out to be all that successful.
[/quote]

Pursuant to our "paperless" policy direction we would not sign the ESA.

(Cue the OWF: "b-b-b-but you still have the H-H-H-Harmlin accords!")

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='10 May 2010 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1273531467' post='2294019']
Pursuant to our "paperless" policy direction we would not sign the ESA.

(Cue the OWF: "b-b-b-but you still have the H-H-H-Harmlin accords!")
[/quote]
Ok, then why can't you have separately stated that you wanted them to admit wrongdoing as your requirement for peace rather than going through an unsuccessful bid at unconditional surrender that I don't really see any added value in?

[shilo]

Well, looking at you guys, I think the end of this war will be paperless as well.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='10 May 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1273531576' post='2294026']
Ok, then why can't you have separately stated that you wanted them to admit wrongdoing as your requirement for peace rather than going through an unsuccessful bid at unconditional surrender that I don't really see any added value in?
[/quote]

The terms aren't my decision to make.
Their unconditional surrender is an important act of them submitting themselves to serve restitution.

War > Surrender > Terms > Restitution > Peace

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='10 May 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1273532129' post='2294043']
The terms aren't my decision to make.
Their unconditional surrender is an important act of them submitting themselves to serve restitution.

War > Surrender > Terms > Restitution > Peace
[/quote]
Why is it important? Why doesn't an admission of wrongdoing accomplish your goal of getting them to admit they were wrong?

[shilo]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='11 May 2010 - 01:58 AM' timestamp='1273532284' post='2294047']
Why is it important? Why doesn't an admission of wrongdoing accomplish your goal of getting them to admit they were wrong?
[/quote]
We shouldn't forget that another goal is to ensure we can never fight gRAMlins friends again. And which RL example ram bases his idea of unconditional surrender on.

As Mathew stated, there will not be peace when we surrender, that distinction is very important. Looking at that RL example, which has been explicitly mentioned by ram, is that peace came years after the surrender.

Which way do you think can gRAMlins ensure we do as they are told a year down the road? My take is, looking at that example ram likes to ramble about, and taking into consideration they cannot sign a peace treaty anyways, there will be no peace for us.
We would be demilitarized, in a state of war, but in a ceasefire, until gRAMlins say otherwise.


Of course that's not something they could ever get from us if we don't surrender unconditionally.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]Pursuant to our "paperless" policy direction we would not sign the ESA.[/quote]
So wait, does this mean that [b]you will never sign peace terms[/b] with IRON/DAWN? And since you've already said you won't accept a white peace, that means that you really [i]are[/i] trying to hold them in an eternal war.

And having 'paperless' be an end unto itself – and therefore driving the alliance into a losing war from a winning position, and presumably, if you can't sign surrender terms from the losing end either, into disbandment or endless losing warfare – is a supreme level of idiocy that I thought was beyond even Ram.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='10 May 2010 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1273533726' post='2294084']
So wait, does this mean that [b]you will never sign peace terms[/b] with IRON/DAWN? And since you've already said you won't accept a white peace, that means that you really [i]are[/i] trying to hold them in an eternal war.

And having 'paperless' be an end unto itself – and therefore driving the alliance into a losing war from a winning position, and presumably, if you can't sign surrender terms from the losing end either, into disbandment or endless losing warfare – is a supreme level of idiocy that I thought was beyond even Ram.
[/quote]
I am not sure if this was exactly his meaning, but I absolutely agree with your point. Alliance policy should be made to serve the alliance, not the other way around.

[shilo]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='11 May 2010 - 02:22 AM' timestamp='1273533726' post='2294084']
So wait, does this mean that [b]you will never sign peace terms[/b] with IRON/DAWN? And since you've already said you won't accept a white peace, that means that you really [i]are[/i] trying to hold them in an eternal war.

And having 'paperless' be an end unto itself – and therefore driving the alliance into a losing war from a winning position, and presumably, if you can't sign surrender terms from the losing end either, into disbandment or endless losing warfare – is a supreme level of idiocy that I thought was beyond even Ram.
[/quote]
(Cue to Mathew: "b-b-b-but you could go back to war and break the agreement anytime!")

Edited May 10, 2010 by shilo

[Seipher Caim]

[quote]Pursuant to our "paperless" policy direction we would not sign the ESA.[/quote]

OMG... this quote made my day... i thought I had seen everything in that thread and we can still find gems...
This is total non-sense...

[amad123]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='09 May 2010 - 11:09 PM' timestamp='1273460925' post='2293121']
IRON declared an aggressive war on CnG with literally no reason.[/quote]
Okay are you using you own definition of “literally” here, because your statement is entirely untrue? Literally IRON issued a CB, here let me quote it for you. "to further improve community standards, fight trolling, IRON and DAWN hereby declare war against CnG". Matt something isn't true or right just because you want it to be. You can't go around re-defining words. Words have definitions that are widely accepted. If you continue to redefine words to suit your own purpose then how will anyone be able to trust the Gramlins?. They can say one thing, and later say, ”No that’s not our interpretation of that, it doesn’t matter what everyone else thinks, our interpretation is correct.” You should also stop stating as fact, things that you make up. It is far too easy to call you on them. So whoever told you that IRON declared with no CB was wrong. You need to stop believing everything that Ram tells you and search out truth for yourself.

Let me help you a little:

1) You are losing the war with IRON and DAWN.
2) If the war continues long enough and you stay a member of Gramlins you will be ZI’d.
3) If the war lasts long enough your warchest will be drained.
4) You are a highly respected member of the CN community.

Okay one of the above four statements is not true, it is a test to see if you can actually tell when someone is feeding you a line that has no truth in it but sounds good and you really want to believe it. That still doesn’t make it true.

So while IRON and DAWN did literally issue a CB, what you probably wanted to say was that it wasn’t a morally justifiable casus belli in your opinion. Which I would understand, with Gramlins holding such high morals.

[Ertyy]

I have been told by ra...the conclave that I need to stop posting. So good luck, everyone. This is my last post in this thread. For Forever.

[Bilrow]

[quote name='Ertyy' date='10 May 2010 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1273542009' post='2294271']
I have been told by ra...the conclave that I need to stop posting. So good luck, everyone. This is my last post in this thread. For Forever.
[/quote]
Yay Radio Silence.

[shilo]

[quote name='Ertyy' date='11 May 2010 - 04:40 AM' timestamp='1273542009' post='2294271']
I have been told by ra...the conclave that I need to stop posting. So good luck, everyone. This is my last post in this thread. For Forever.
[/quote]


[quote name='Bilrow' date='11 May 2010 - 04:44 AM' timestamp='1273542259' post='2294274']
Yay Radio Silence.
[/quote]
After Mathew made it clear that there never was a plan for peace anyways, I understand ram doesn't care for more slip ups.

[amad123]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='09 May 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1273461446' post='2293128']
I am far more informed than you; in fact by many meters I am completely informed. [/quote]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='03 May 2010 - 12:03 PM' timestamp='1272902579' post='2285052']
Who said we don't have terms to offer them?GRE [b]does[/b] have terms to offer them; it's just that neither myself nor Ertyy know exactly what they are. [/quote]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='09 May 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1273461446' post='2293128']
I am far more informed than you; in fact by many meters I am completely informed. [/quote]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='05 May 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1273110469']
As for the exact terms: no I do not specifically know them. I do, however, know the general plan and if it doesn't proceed to my liking I'll oppose it.
[/quote]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='09 May 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1273461446' post='2293128']
I am far more informed than you; in fact by many meters I am completely informed. [/quote]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='06 May 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1273119832' post='2288672']
No, I don't have / can't give facts about what the terms will be after IRON surrenders. [/quote]
And that's how Gramlins roll.

[quote name='Ertyy' date='10 May 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1273542009' post='2294271']
I have been told by ra...the conclave that I need to stop posting. So good luck, everyone. This is my last post in this thread. For Forever.
[/quote]
I for one am completly devastated that they are unable to post in this thread anymore. First they won't tell us the Surrender terms, then they won't negotiate, they can't sign "Peace Agreements", they won't accept "White Peace" and now they won't even talk. They really are leaving us only one option. What a waste of pixels.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='11 May 2010 - 09:44 AM' timestamp='1273531467' post='2294019']
snip
[/quote]
I feel neglected again - you seem to respond to everyone else's posts but mine

Are my questions too difficult to answer?

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Ertyy' date='10 May 2010 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1273542009' post='2294271']
I have been told by ra...the conclave that I need to stop posting. So good luck, everyone. This is my last post in this thread. For Forever.
[/quote]
If you get bored, you can start drafting your alliance's apology letter and admission of guilt for your actions after the signing of the Easter Sunday Accords.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' date='10 May 2010 - 01:53 AM' timestamp='1273470763' post='2293363']
They cite an instance of a CnG leader trolling them and make the declaration of war to [i]"further improve community standards [and] fight trolling"[/i]. A weak reason for war perhaps, but each to their own.
[/quote]
You might also find that the leader of Athens is named Londo, not Lando.

[quote name='Horatio Longworth' date='10 May 2010 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1273509657' post='2293663']
If I'm not mistaken, everyone else here believes [i]Gremlins[/i] attacked a disconnected third party for no acceptable reason.
Edit: Italics added
[/quote]
You are quite mistaken.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='flak attack' date='10 May 2010 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1273544461' post='2294324']
You might also find that the leader of Athens is named Londo, not Lando.
[/quote]

Heh, people mentioned that in the original DoW too.

[quote name='King DrunkWino' date='29 January 2010 - 03:07 AM' timestamp='1264748858' post='2140128']
[quote]Who is Lando?[/quote]
[i][b]THIS GUY![/b][/i]

[img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x74/TheKyz/lando_calrissian.jpg[/img]

Even Cloud City wants to troll IRON.

o/Bespin (?)
[/quote]

[KingEd]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='11 May 2010 - 03:11 AM' timestamp='1273543845' post='2294309']
If you get bored, you can start drafting your alliance's apology letter and admission of guilt for your actions after the signing of the Easter Sunday Accords.
[/quote]

At this point...I doubt Gremlins feels anything, specially guilt...

[Baldr]

[quote name='Ertyy' date='10 May 2010 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1273542009' post='2294271']
I have been told by ra...the conclave that I need to stop posting. So good luck, everyone. This is my last post in this thread. For Forever.
[/quote]

That's probably a good idea. At some point you need to recognize that the hole you have dug yourself is deep enough and it's time to stop digging.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='10 May 2010 - 05:55 PM' timestamp='1273532129' post='2294043']
The terms aren't my decision to make.
Their unconditional surrender is an important act of them submitting themselves to serve restitution.

War > Surrender > Terms > Restitution > Peace
[/quote]
If you were winning that war, then I suppose that would make sense. I'd still disagree with it, but it would make sense. However the fact is that you [i]aren't[/i] winning this war, so if IRON were to agree to any surrender terms at all, the only reason would be that they feel the need to make amends for their past.

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' date='10 May 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1273543724' post='2294305']
I feel neglected again - you seem to respond to everyone else's posts but mine

Are my questions too difficult to answer?
[/quote]
He hasn't responded to mine as well....
[quote name='Gamemaster1' date='10 May 2010 - 03:24 PM' timestamp='1273519447' post='2293823']
So I'm still waiting on Matthew's answer to the question about attacking others who pre-emptively declared.

Because he's slowly changed his reasoning from 'they attacked out allies and we won't let them do it again' to 'they are inherently wrong and deserve to be punished'. I believe that the entire TIDTT party signed the Easter Sunday Accords, and [i]none[/i] of them admitted they were wrong. Going to attack them now, PK? Your moral outrage meter in the red? I'm sure there are nations in the coalition that you can hit if you [i]truly[/i] feel that way.

Otherwise, you're just worthlessly posturing. Acta non verba, right?
[/quote]
Well, PK?

[Louisa]

[quote name='amad123' date='11 May 2010 - 01:22 AM' timestamp='1273537303' post='2294151']
Matt [...] You can't go around re-defining words. Words have definitions that are widely accepted. If you continue to redefine words to suit your own purpose then how will anyone be able to trust the Gramlins?. They can say one thing, and later say, ”No that’s not our interpretation of that, it doesn’t matter what everyone else thinks, our interpretation is correct.”
[/quote]

Well it is his habit after all. Plus he never replied to this:

[quote name='Louisa' date='09 May 2010 - 04:52 AM' timestamp='1273377157' post='2292116']
Sir, I am formally charging you with casuistry and sophistry, and since we are in the habit of quoting our references, mine are wiktionary (since I am too tired to find another).

I will be expecting your plea within 12 standard hours.
[/quote]

...so I will take your silence as a admission of guilt, Matthew!

[jimbacher]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='10 May 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1273542259' post='2294274']
Yay Radio Silence.
[/quote]
ehhm....Bilrow....(inside joke)

Edited May 11, 2010 by jimbacher