Poison Clan Announcement

[ktarthan]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1268435739' post='2223678']
Your opinion has been noted. It shall [b]not[/b] be taken into account next time a post is made by me.

Thank you,
Sk
[/quote]

Your inability to debate has been noted. You shall [b]not[/b] be taken seriously the next time a post is made by you.

Thank you,
Ktarthan

[silentkiller]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='12 March 2010 - 11:20 PM' timestamp='1268436363' post='2223692']
Your inability to debate has been noted. You shall [b]not[/b] be taken seriously the next time a post is made by you.

Thank you,
Ktarthan
[/quote]


You dont know the meaning of debate. Your posts shall not be read next time.

Thank you,
Sk

yeah I am bored.

Edit: not worth it

Where did I say that I was countering Londos post about Pc's character? I am just saying its funny how he says that for an alliance to have character they shouldnt Pzi people, I pointed out that indeed Londo's own alliance Athens did the same thing until 10 days before K war, which he claims was to end there injustices. Do you in point in my post see me claiming that PC doesnt not have character or something? Nope my post's point was to call out Londo on his bs that he somehow fought some moral crusade during Karma war against injustices of unthinkable proportions, when his own alliance allowed similar practises just 10 days before Karma war.

Edited March 12, 2010 by silentkiller

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1268418958' post='2223482']
PC could have handled this in many ways, many of which would have resulted in a slagged Echelon and SBA. The way that PC did resolve this speaks highly of their character and is more generally proof that raiders do in fact care for the [OOC]player base of the game[/OOC]. Neither SBA nor Echelon is capable of forcing PC to pay reps, they are offering to take care of SBA because it's the right thing to do.

Well done, PC, for settling this issue according to your own moral code. It's a wonderful thing to live in a world without morality police.




It's really a pity that you're too young to remember the days when the hegemony was in power. I think you would whine a lot less if you realized how good you actually have it these days. There was a time when you would have been ZIed for posting something like that.
[/quote]

Yeah thats what happened. Well thats the way they would like to sell it. I think you know PC caved for the same reason Athens did. Because that path leads to ruin. And yes in the past GOONS or \m/ would have been happy to ZI anyone in any alliance for something they said. That they have already returned to some of the practices that doomed them the first time has already painted a massive target on them. They only question is who else will end up getting burned with them.

Edited March 12, 2010 by The Big Bad

[Neo Anglia]

[quote name='KaitlinK' date='12 March 2010 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1268435376' post='2223672']
I knew there was something different about you...
In all seriousness this isnt something you can help with, though it is kind of you to go to bat for your alliance-mate. I like Echelon and I have a great respect for Neo, but like others I have to question the wisdom of having Caffine any where near FA. I wont waste time making a humorus analogy but too many have experienced Caffine's style of diplomacy and it didnt do your alliance justice.

Glad to read this announcement PC. I wish you and SBA all the best in reaching an agreement that works for both parties as soon as possible.
[/quote]Hello. You know you have a crush on Tela, you can admit it
Hmm...you mean like;
[quote]Neeps wrote:
as always Caff, subtle as anal sex [/quote]That was from one of our members(and it is in Caff's sig BTW. Take from that what you will )

Edited March 12, 2010 by Neo Anglia

[Newhotness]

[quote name='elborrador' date='12 March 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1268435347' post='2223671']
make this situation easier for everyone PC, just roll Echelon
[/quote]
yeah, thats what i wanted, but the people above me said no

[ktarthan]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1268436516' post='2223699']
You dont know the meaning of debate. Your posts shall not be read next time.

Thank you,
Sk

yeah I am bored.

Edit: not worth it

Where did I say that I was countering Londos post about Pc's character? I am just saying its funny how he says that for an alliance to have character they shouldnt Pzi people, I pointed out that indeed Londo's own alliance Athens did the same thing until 10 days before K war, which he claims was to end there injustices. Do you in point in my post see me claiming that PC doesnt not have character or something? Nope my post's point was to call out Londo on his bs that he somehow fought some moral crusade during Karma war against injustices of unthinkable proportions, when his own alliance allowed similar practises just 10 days before Karma war.
[/quote]

The part where you quoted his statement about PC having character in a thread about PC and started your statement with the word "and" without further reframing it at all sure made it look that way. If you had simply answered my initial question like a normal person instead of layering on the , this could have been [b]so[/b] much easier.

Edit: "PC doesnt not have character"? Get a hold on your double negatives, man - but I think I got what you're trying to say.

Edited March 12, 2010 by ktarthan

[silentkiller]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='12 March 2010 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1268438200' post='2223737']
The part where you quoted his statement about PC having character in a thread about PC and started your statement with the word "and" without further reframing it at all sure made it look that way. If you had simply answered my initial question like a normal person instead of layering on the , this could have been [b]so[/b] much easier.
[/quote]

But where would be the fun in that?

Edit: What can I say, I love my double negatives.

Edited March 13, 2010 by silentkiller

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Baldr' date='12 March 2010 - 05:57 PM' timestamp='1268434951' post='2223664']
If they thought it was the right thing to do *before* the long public discussion, that would be believable. But they said "No reps, nothing" in private when first approached, and they continued that for days in public. Then they changed their minds. If you want to pretend that the public thread and the general perception of what PC did had nothing to do with them changing their minds, you can, but it won't change what actually happened.
[/quote]

Did you read the OP? Reps were not paid due to Echelon's conduct, and because PC became fed up with the situation. In exploring a way to come to a meaningful resolution, which they were doing with or without a public thread from Echelon, an idea was floated that would allow them to bypass Echelon.

Please stop speaking about things of which you have no idea.

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1268433567' post='2223642']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=53756

And you cancelled your EZi policy on 11 april, 10 days before Karma war. Man its like you got selective Amnesia or something.
[/quote]

We did have EZI on the books at one time. We never actually [i]carried out[/i] an EZI sentence in game, although I did have one guy talk to me and apologize for previous actions when he rejoined CN after a long break. In contrast, alliances like NPO and GGA kept people on EZI for months and years at a time, even when the people wanted off of them very badly and just wanted to [OOC]play again[/OOC]. Not every hegemony alliance acted like this, but many of them did. It's the difference between one state which has capital punishment on the books, and another state which executes thousands of people on the slightest of pretexts. You can't compare us to you, sorry.


[quote name='Baldr' date='12 March 2010 - 05:57 PM' timestamp='1268434951' post='2223664']
If they thought it was the right thing to do *before* the long public discussion, that would be believable. But they said "No reps, nothing" in private when first approached, and they continued that for days in public. Then they changed their minds. If you want to pretend that the public thread and the general perception of what PC did had nothing to do with them changing their minds, you can, but it won't change what actually happened.

That's funny. SBA was just doing their own thing, when they got attacked. So was Knights of Ni, so was FoB.

You talk about people being able to allowed to live without threat, without force, but what you actually do is to find people who haven't done anything to you and then you go attack them simply because you are bigger than them.[/quote]

FoB attacked Knights of Ni! along with us, FYI. They weren't attacked... until TOP and IRON came for CnG. There is also a huge difference between 2 ground attacks and peace sent and smashing an alliance into the ground so hard that half their nation rulers commit suicide and their nations perish. And anyone can raid. Someone who was raided can raid others in turn. It's just a bit of a play for fun and profit, doesn't drive rulers from the world when practiced responsibly, and it keeps a lot of rulers interested in the world. Creates drama too.

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='12 March 2010 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1268436815' post='2223704']
Yeah thats what happened. Well thats the way they would like to sell it. I think you know PC caved for the same reason Athens did. Because that path leads to ruin. And yes in the past GOONS or \m/ would have been happy to ZI anyone in any alliance for something they said. That they have already returned to some of the practices that doomed them the first time has already painted a massive target on them. They only question is who else will end up getting burned with them.[/quote]

Lol, we didn't cave. We have paid reps to people plenty of times when no one else knew about it, because we felt it was the right thing to do after considering the situation. The Knights of Ni! case was the same, and that is also why we actually bothered doing donation deals for them to actually repair their nations instead of just flooding their slots with money, like a lot of people were irrationally howling for us to do. No one made us pay reps, and certainly no one made us go to the trouble of finding donation deals to fully restore nations.

Believe it or not, a lot of raiders actually do consider the situation and make some effort to make things right if they feel that the situation warrants it. It's happened with us, and it's happened with PC here.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Londo Mollari

[AirMe]

Londo commenting on PC's honor is as funny as Hitler saying Ghengis Khan was a stand up and respectable guy.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1268440641' post='2223774']
Londo commenting on PC's honor is as funny as Hitler saying Ghengis Khan was a stand up and respectable guy.
[/quote]

OOC: I know you didn't just mean to compare Londo to Hitler. Try again.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1268440641' post='2223774']
Londo commenting on PC's honor is as funny as Hitler saying Ghengis Khan was a stand up and respectable guy.
[/quote]

Did you just compare Londo to hitler?

[AirMe]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='12 March 2010 - 07:35 PM' timestamp='1268440837' post='2223777']
OOC: I know you didn't just mean to compare Londo to Hitler. Try again.
[/quote]


[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='12 March 2010 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1268440903' post='2223779']
Did you just compare Londo to hitler?
[/quote]

It was an analogy. I do not think Londo is Hitler.

Edited March 13, 2010 by AirMe

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1268440952' post='2223781']
It was an analogy. I do not think Londo is Hitler.
[/quote]

I know, it was just funny to point out

[MaGneT]

First @AirMe, I like you, but that's a piss-poor analogy.

[quote name='Otherworld' date='12 March 2010 - 05:57 PM' timestamp='1268434949' post='2223663']
To be more precise they banned anybody with the Echelon tag from their chan for the reason "I dont like you"
[/quote]
Your point? Cry me a river. If they don't want you in your channel, they don't have to let you in.
The converse is true as well.

[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1268433567' post='2223642']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=53756

And you cancelled your EZi policy on 11 april, 10 days before Karma war. Man its like you got selective Amnesia or something.
[/quote]
[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1268436516' post='2223699']
Where did I say that I was countering Londos post about Pc's character? I am just saying its funny how he says that for an alliance to have character they shouldnt Pzi people, I pointed out that indeed Londo's own alliance Athens did the same thing until 10 days before K war, which he claims was to end there injustices. Do you in point in my post see me claiming that PC doesnt not have character or something? Nope my post's point was to call out Londo on his bs that he somehow fought some moral crusade during Karma war against injustices of unthinkable proportions, when his own alliance allowed similar practises just 10 days before Karma war.
[/quote]
Allowed =/= Practiced

Edited March 13, 2010 by MaGneT

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='13 March 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1268440629' post='2223773']
We did have EZI on the books at one time. We never actually [i]carried out[/i] an EZI sentence in game, although I did have one guy talk to me and apologize for previous actions when he rejoined CN after a long break. In contrast, alliances like NPO and GGA kept people on EZI for months and years at a time, even when the people wanted off of them very badly and just wanted to [OOC]play again[/OOC]. Not every hegemony alliance acted like this, but many of them did. It's the difference between one state which has capital punishment on the books, and another state which executes thousands of people on the slightest of pretexts. You can't compare us to you, sorry.[/quote]

Not carrying something out doesnt mean you find the practise disgusting. If you did you wouldnt have opted out of the ZI pact or w/e that you mention in the op I linked to. Nice try, not good enough though.

[quote]Allowed =/= Practiced [/quote]


Huh? If they allowed it then obviously they didnt think it was such a bad then thing did they? Atleast not to the point of decrying it as some great injustice. It's like an alliance that allows raids on NONE but doesnt actually ever raid decrying another alliance which actually raids NONE as evil/injust.

Edited March 13, 2010 by silentkiller

[ktarthan]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1268440641' post='2223774']
Londo commenting on PC's honor is as funny as Hitler saying Ghengis Khan was a stand up and respectable guy.
[/quote]

[ooc]Reminded me of this: [url=http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=25]http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=25[/url][/ooc]

Honestly I don't know Londo's history, but even if he were such a terrible authority on the subject of honor, that'd only be a valid analogy if he was simply asking us to take his word on it. He backed up his statement with a reason; one which has been ignored in favor of simply making attacks on Londo's character.

Edited March 13, 2010 by ktarthan

[Bob Janova]

Revisionism is in full force in this thread. Fortunately, there are still plenty of people who were around in 2008-9 who know what happened (and how much 'whining', i.e. justified complaint, C&G and friends did back them), so we don't need to fight that front too hard – though it might be an indication of just how much we have to remind people of when SG are more fully in control.

Londo, you seem to be pushing the 'not as bad as the Hegemony, so it must be ok' line again ... that one got tired before Karma was even over, please don't try to revive it. Attacking an alliance for no reason other than to steal its stuff is not a good thing, and even if you pay reps for it afterwards (which is a good thing), it would still be better if it didn't happen at all.

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1268440952' post='2223781']
It was an analogy. I do not think Londo is Hitler.[/quote]

The Redoubt of Mind once had a fine citizen named Godwin. He made a law that has bearing on this accusation. I just forget exactly what it said...

[AirMe]

[quote name='MaGneT' date='12 March 2010 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1268441258' post='2223787']
First @AirMe, I like you, but that's a piss-poor analogy.

[/quote]


[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1268441616' post='2223795']
The Redoubt of Mind once had a fine citizen named Godwin. He made a law that has bearing on this accusation. I just forget exactly what it said...
[/quote]

It may have been a piss poor mistake, but at the same time I stand by my mistakes as well as my triumphs.

[The Reccesion]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1268441856' post='2223800']
It may have been a piss poor mistake, but at the same time I stand by my mistakes as well as my triumphs.
[/quote]
Now only if you could teach that...

[Otherworld]

[quote]Your point? Cry me a river. If they don't want you in your channel, they don't have to let you in.
The converse is true as well.[/quote]

Next time try reading the context of the post. I couldnt give 2 !@#$% if they banned me from there or not.

I was just replying to somebody moaning about how undiplomatic we were for kicking a few people when PC had already taken it several steps further.

[Parandiac]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1268425422' post='2223554']
It's evident that people just won't let Caffine move on.
[/quote]you can build a thousand bridges, and people know you're a bridge builder; you screw one goat, and you're branded for life.

[Master-Debater]

I am very glad to see this. PC you gained back some points in my book. Hopefully you can work out a good deal and get this whole mess behind everyone involved.

Good luck.

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 06:48 PM' timestamp='1268441616' post='2223795']
The Redoubt of Mind once had a fine citizen named Godwin. He made a law that has bearing on this accusation. I just forget exactly what it said...
[/quote]

Don't worry about it, in my nation his law is known as "the most stupid of laws on the Internet."