Lincongrad Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Kortal' date='21 February 2010 - 08:56 PM' timestamp='1266814613' post='2196297'] So what you're saying is that Sparta asked for an amount of reps based on Legion's conduct during negotiations and the fact that legion decided to stay in war some 4 days after being offered white peace. Where the [i]hell[/i] do they get off? [/quote] To clarify, the conduct being referred to as OOC attacks was done by several members in a public channel. Not during negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='22 February 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1266814420' post='2196287'] I don't mind paying for damages I cause, especially if I lose an aggressive assault. When Sparta activated Mutual Defense with Athens and FoB - Legion can not activate a Mutual Defense to hit us. They would have to activate their Optional Aggression. Yes, it's respecting a treaty, but it's not the same thing. [/quote] I don't really think you have the authority to say that, if they want to interpret the treaty a particular way, it's their treaty, also, it wouldn't be oA, because IRON didn't attack YOU, they hit Athens & FoB, which you defended against, but then Legion defended IRON against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='21 February 2010 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1266814420' post='2196287'] I don't mind paying for damages I cause, especially if I lose an aggressive assault. [/quote] Ok, fair enough. [quote] When Sparta activated Mutual Defense with Athens and FoB - Legion can not activate a Mutual Defense to hit us. They would have to activate their Optional Aggression. Yes, it's respecting a treaty, but it's not the same thing. [/quote] Wait, how so? Didn't Legion enter to defend IRON or an I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='silentkiller' date='21 February 2010 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1266814332' post='2196279'] Indeed,Sparta is one of the original Q alliances that has'nt paid for its "sins" during its time in Q. [/quote] Find one alliance that believes that crud for more than a desperate excuse to justify our demise, and I'll give you a cookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 This time Sparta was just kidding. THE PLOT THICKENS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieMercury Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Kortal' date='22 February 2010 - 04:56 AM' timestamp='1266814613' post='2196297'] So what you're saying is that Sparta asked for an amount of reps based on Legion's conduct during negotiations and the fact that legion decided to stay in war some 4 days after being offered white peace. Where the [i]hell[/i] do they get off? [/quote] Well from my talks with Hyperion, I get the sense that the reps were because of the insults and that Legion were being a-holes. I don't think too many care about the 4 day discrepancy. And rightfully so. [quote] Actually it was more of the OOC bombardment Hyp got hit with. I assure you if it had just been a little IC smack talk things would be different.[/quote] That was what I was refering to. And my point there was that it wasn't Gov members who sad those extremely distasteful things and it was on a public channel, not some official platform. Edited February 22, 2010 by FreddieMercury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='kulomascovia' date='21 February 2010 - 11:59 PM' timestamp='1266814773' post='2196307 Wait, how so? Didn't Legion enter to defend IRON or an I wrong? [/quote] You can't defend an alliance against a Defensive strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 lol, "OOC Attacks!" You really are upholding those traditions even more than I realized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='22 February 2010 - 05:01 AM' timestamp='1266814872' post='2196312'] You can't defend an alliance against a Defensive strike. [/quote] You know the difference between chaining and non-chaining treaties right? Legion entered on the MD part of their treaty, obiviously their treaty was chaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='22 February 2010 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1266814872' post='2196312'] You can't defend an alliance against a Defensive strike. [/quote] Yes you can, while you did so in response to an IRON attack, Sparta was not in the war until they declared war on IRON, so you attacked, or counter-attacked, if you like, but it's still an attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander thrawn Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Lord Fingolfin' date='22 February 2010 - 03:53 AM' timestamp='1266810813' post='2196025'] To clarify, theres no need to portray Sparta as some big bad demon for giving us reps. Could have been worse. Do I feel its unjustified? Most definately yes, but demonizing an alliance over one action doesn't sit well with me either I suppose [/quote] I have the utmost respect for this. Everyone pretending to be more moral in this thread is just being foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castles Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) Alright so when this started TOP and friends were "overly paranoid" when they reacted to CNG's members repeatedly saying "we gonna/lets roll ________" but now those level of statements are to be taken seriously? I realize there's more to do with your mamma statements and all that. But I'm just trying to keep the propaganda straight here. Should peons stupid statements be taken seriously or not on IRC? edit for clarity Edited February 22, 2010 by Castles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryievla Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) [quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='21 February 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1266814817' post='2196309'] Find one alliance that believes that crud for more than a desperate excuse to justify our demise, and I'll give you a cookie. [/quote] Heh. I should hope that every alliance "believes that crud", seeing as it's factually accurate. [quote]Alright so when this started TOP and friends were "overly paranoid" when they reacted to CNG's members repeatedly saying "we gonna/lets roll ________" but now those level of statements are to be taken seriously? [/quote] Funny, I was wondering the exact same thing. Legion, glad you got peace. Brigade, AO, Umbrella, SoL, & CoI, good show. edit: eep, and ttk too! Edited February 22, 2010 by Kryievla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libera Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='kulomascovia' date='22 February 2010 - 04:51 AM' timestamp='1266814261' post='2196272'] Of course it's not. However, Legion and Sparta were on the same boat; they were both respecting their treaties. Unless Sparta would be happy to be fined for helping their allies, I don't see the necessity of making Legion pay reps. [/quote] I do. They were defending an aggressive side who attacked a bloc. Argue all you want about it being a just attack or not, their side struck first militarily. Defending allies is not a bad thing, but like all things there are consequences for every action. This is that consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord GVChamp Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Castles' date='21 February 2010 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1266815135' post='2196325'] Alright so when this started TOP and friends were "overly paranoid" when they reacted to CNG's members repeatedly saying "we gonna/lets roll ________" but now those level of statements are to be taken seriously? I realize there's more to do with your mamma and all that. But I'm just trying to keep the propaganda straight here. Should peons stupid statements be taken seriously or not on IRC? [/quote] There's a difference between statements of policy (IE, is MK going to attack us or not?) and general conduct. I would not attack Legion solely on the basis of their members threatening me. If they were constantly harassing my alliance in an inappropriate format, I would certainly consider attacking them. If it were bad enough and the action consistent enough, my goal would be Legion's disbandment. Destroying a community is not regrettable if the community consists of scum and villainy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newhotness Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 sweet terms. all this whitish peace is lame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coursca Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) pezstar, even I have to say that your line of argumentation regarding that insult toward Hyperion was a wee bit of a stretch. [quote name='FreddieMercury' date='21 February 2010 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1266814405' post='2196286'] So I talked to Hyperion on IRC, saw a little bit of logs, and all I came away from it is: 1) Legion's members talked !@#$ about Sparta on Legion's public channel. That's it. Big whoop, I see MK members pulling that kinda of crap all day, but we all understand the line between membership and gov. If I were Sparta, I would pissed off, demand an apology and carry it no further than that. I am unaware of any other incidents that happened besides the miscommunication bits, which is nothing more than miscommunication. It happens to anyone from time to time, get over it. [/quote] One of the better posts in the last few pages, by the way. Stop being so logical, NADC! D: Anyway, I agree that this is the sort of thing that is in the realm of an apology. Trash talk happens all the time during the war. I've hard far worse told to me and been called far worse over a number of wars. It happens (OOC: ...and its the Internet...you actually took a bunch of kids/young folk seriously and expected a modicum of maturity in dealings? Your expectations are far higher than mine, it would seem.) Also, what is the justification for reparations for the other two alliances if, as it would seem, the primary beef is with Sparta? This is a legitimate question. I'm not trying to skewer you guys (yet ). NINJA-EDIT: Ahh, saw the post from Asgaard. There's one other alliance involved in this, though, I think. Edited February 22, 2010 by Coursca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidbringer Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) At the maximum, these reps are approx. *1.2 billion. At the minimum, these reps are around *0.7 billion, assuming they use weak nations to buy blocks of 50 tech for around 800k. *apparently I'm really sleepy and shouldn't be posting They're not atrocious -- still pretty high though. Edited February 22, 2010 by Voidbringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortal Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Castles' date='22 February 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1266815135' post='2196325'] Alright so when this started TOP and friends were "overly paranoid" when they reacted to CNG's members repeatedly saying "we gonna/lets roll ________" but now those level of statements are to be taken seriously? I realize there's more to do with your mamma statements and all that. But I'm just trying to keep the propaganda straight here. Should peons stupid statements be taken seriously or not on IRC? edit for clarity [/quote] Valid question. I think they have to be really, most of us are used to much worse certainly, but that doesn't make it ok to say the things they did with a malicious intent. It doesn't mean its the end of the world, but alliances need to keep their members in check, had this happened without a war ongoing Legion gov would have apologized on these boards and it probably would have been forgiven. As reps were being considered during the time, it factored into that instead. As did a great many other things, as people seem to have forgotten. Should Legion's conduct during or outside of negotiations during this time have factored into the amount of reps charged? Absolutely. Could legion have disagreed with the amount and try to negotiate them down a bit? Absolutely. Should that say something? Well I sure hope so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Why isn't anyone claiming that the reps and the rudeness is MKs fault? I was fairly sure that we've established that everything anyone do can be traced back to us. Please blame us. We've only been mentioned 3-4 times by now and we need the attention badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Voidbringer' date='22 February 2010 - 05:11 AM' timestamp='1266815476' post='2196341'] At the maximum, these reps are 120 billion. At the minimum, these reps are around 32 billion, assuming they use weak nations to buy blocks of 50 tech for around 800k. oh my [/quote] WHile I dont agree with the reps here, they really arent that bad Edited February 22, 2010 by silentkiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='silentkiller' date='22 February 2010 - 04:52 AM' timestamp='1266814332' post='2196279'] Indeed,Sparta is one of the original Q alliances that has'nt paid for its "sins" during its time in Q. [/quote] I believe it was Sparta who, besides being in Q, also had a MDP with NPO which they cancelled already during the course of Karma War, and then declared war on NPO three days later. Personally, I start to see a pattern of opportunism in what Sparta does during war, but I am seeing it from the outside, so I might be wrong. With that said, o/ Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinite Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Voidbringer' date='22 February 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1266815476' post='2196341'] At the maximum, these reps are 120 billion. At the minimum, these reps are around 32 billion, assuming they use weak nations to buy blocks of 50 tech for around 800k. oh my [/quote] Can you show your work on that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Trinite' date='21 February 2010 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1266815664' post='2196350'] Can you show your work on that one? [/quote] I was thinking the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortal Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Lusitan' date='22 February 2010 - 12:13 AM' timestamp='1266815617' post='2196349'] I believe it was Sparta who, besides being in Q, also had a MDP with NPO which they cancelled already during the course of Karma War, and then declared war on NPO three days later. Personally, I start to see a pattern of opportunism in what Sparta does during war, but I am seeing it from the outside, so I might be wrong. With that said, o/ Peace [/quote] You're right, they have been a little opportunistic in the past...and here they are almost a year later negotiating reps from an alliance!! How the hell did no one make this connection yet?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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