An Announcement From a Few Alliances

[Borimir Resurrected]

Congratulations to all alliances involved. Truly is the only sensible thing to do here.

Now if only the rest of those fighting would follow this example.

[Freelancer]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='05 February 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1265424934' post='2162674']
I don't agree with anything you said.

That being said, FoB is directly MDP'd to Immortals. no chains. That's not unrelated.
[/quote]

That funny because I do and it's sad day when I agree with anything mhawk says..

This war has been one giant CF after another pitting the best friends against each other, I know I am about to crucified here with my unholy jihad against USN and UPN and I don't care, to make matters even worse, I've been gaged and told to stay away from the AP, so I expect to be exiled once again and put on someone's hit list.

[Bob]

[quote name='Roadie' date='05 February 2010 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1265425303' post='2162690']
I actually like what they're doing here. I think insulting their own meatshields for not being meatshieldy enough is a fantastic idea.
[/quote]
So.. all direct allies of TPF are your meatshields?

[mhawk]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='05 February 2010 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1265425174' post='2162684']
Of course you'd offer white peace. That's the only way you could hope to get any alliances out of the war. If you offered terms you'd be laughed at.

Look, I understand you have a vested interest in making peacing out appear as attractive as possible in order to convince as many alliances as you possibly can that abandoning their allies on the field of battle is the best option possible, because you have absolutely no chance of winning if there isn't a massive evacuation on the part of the other side. Hell, it's a good strategy regardless of whether or not you're winning to make surrender look appetizing just so you can pull out opponents you don't want to fight and concentrate your forces on their friends elsewhere. That said, you could at least check to make sure that the things you are saying about the situation are true (in this case, the example that The Immortals was some peripheral alliance rather than one who declared to defend the people at the core of the current fighting). Otherwise, your spiel comes across as transparent to the point of the ridiculous.

Although that's kind of fun to watch, so carry on.
[/quote]

Well lets analyze this since you find it ridiculous. If CnG and TOP/IRON came to peace, that would result in pretty much everyone else exiting the war right?

[The AUT]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='06 February 2010 - 02:59 AM' timestamp='1265425174' post='2162684']
Of course you'd offer white peace. That's the only way you could hope to get any alliances out of the war. If you offered terms you'd be laughed at.

Look, I understand you have a vested interest in making peacing out appear as attractive as possible in order to convince as many alliances as you possibly can that abandoning their allies on the field of battle is the best option possible, because you have absolutely no chance of winning if there isn't a massive evacuation on the part of the other side. Hell, it's a good strategy regardless of whether or not you're winning to make surrender look appetizing just so you can pull out opponents you don't want to fight and concentrate your forces on their friends elsewhere. That said, you could at least check to make sure that the things you are saying about the situation are true (in this case, the example that The Immortals was some peripheral alliance rather than one who declared to defend the people at the core of the current fighting). Otherwise, your spiel comes across as transparent to the point of the ridiculous.

Although that's kind of fun to watch, so carry on.
[/quote]

You won't believe me, Delta, but the only reason TPF didn't take reparations last war was because they wanted to set an example they will accept white peace no matter what the cost. An RnR member picked up on this and noticed the precedent set.

I know you won't believe me, but it still happened.

[Roadie]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='05 February 2010 - 09:04 PM' timestamp='1265425444' post='2162698']
So.. all direct allies of TPF are your meatshields?
[/quote]

It's your side of the war that's insulting The Immortals for surrendering. Not TPF.

Hence it's CnG insulting their own meatshields. Now that I think about it, little ole' TPF doesn't have any meatshields to insult even if we wanted to.

Wah! I want meatshields!!!

[Mick Jones]

Good work guys! Immortals, you made a good decision, and you will be better off for it!

o/ UCN
o/ FEAR
o/ TPF
o/ NEW
o/ Immortals

[mhawk]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='05 February 2010 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1265425444' post='2162698']
So.. all direct allies of TPF are your meatshields?
[/quote]
I'd think us asking them to stay out the last war would disprove that point, or the fact we defended NPO for 4 months in a hopeless war.

[Bob]

[quote name='Roadie' date='05 February 2010 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1265425617' post='2162702']
It's your side of the war that's insulting The Immortals for surrendering. Not TPF.

Hence it's CnG insulting their own meatshields. Now that I think about it, little ole' TPF doesn't have any meatshields to insult even if we wanted to.

Wah! I want meatshields!!!
[/quote]
I understand your logic. All allies are meatshields.

ODN go attack GPA for me they have some big nations :3

[Tromp]

[quote name='mhawk' date='06 February 2010 - 04:01 AM' timestamp='1265425299' post='2162689']
My words on talking to those planning it was "it will be a disaster".

That said this war is about people wanting blood. We're here to try to help our allies achieve peace where possible. Ideally everyone would stop this foolish war. I'm certain those that did attack CnG would peace out in fast order if allowed.
[/quote]
If you find it foolish, why do you support them in their war of agression?

[Delta1212]

[quote name='mhawk' date='05 February 2010 - 10:04 PM' timestamp='1265425497' post='2162699']
Well lets analyze this since you find it ridiculous. If CnG and TOP/IRON came to peace, that would result in pretty much everyone else exiting the war right?
[/quote]
So your argument is that we should all back away and let C&G get rolled for not wanting to give white peace to a group of alliances that, in their declaration of war, expressly stated that they were using the war as an opportunity to strike at C&G because they believe them to be a threat and would like do so again in any future wars that arise until C&G has been destroyed.

You know, I've lost a couple thousand infrastructure already, so that logic [i]is[/i] mighty tempting...

[Roadie]

[quote name='Tromp' date='05 February 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1265425697' post='2162709']
If you find it foolish, why do you support them in their war of agression?
[/quote]

Allies need allies even more when they get themselves in a hot mess. That's what allies are for.

[Haflinger]

Good to see our allies ending one of the fronts of this swarming mass of idiocy some people call a war.

[Roadie]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='05 February 2010 - 09:09 PM' timestamp='1265425758' post='2162713']
So your argument is that we should all back away and let C&G get rolled for not wanting to give white peace to a group of alliances that, in their declaration of war, expressly stated that they were using the war as an opportunity to strike at C&G because they believe them to be a threat and would like do so again in any future wars that arise until C&G has been destroyed.

You know, I've lost a couple thousand infrastructure already, so that logic [i]is[/i] mighty tempting...
[/quote]

No. His argument is that CnG could have already had peace if they wanted it. The extension of that is that those still in the war on the CnG 'side' that are taking a beating are doing so to allow CnG to continue the war, not to defend CnG.

[joracy]

[quote name='Roadie' date='05 February 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1265425776' post='2162715']
Allies need allies even more when they get themselves in a hot mess. That's what allies are for.
[/quote]

Being attacked by the most powerful alliance and it's allies(and their allies a bit later)? Nah. Go home. Who would need them then?

[Reziun]

Congrats on peace to all involved!

[Roadie]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='05 February 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1265425682' post='2162706']
I understand your logic. All allies are meatshields.

ODN go attack GPA for me they have some big nations :3
[/quote]

I wish we had ODN sized meatshields. Their warchest must be very good.

[NoFish]

[quote name='mhawk' date='05 February 2010 - 10:04 PM' timestamp='1265425497' post='2162699']
Well lets analyze this since you find it ridiculous. If CnG and TOP/IRON came to peace, that would result in pretty much everyone else exiting the war right?
[/quote]
So does that mean you'd surrender early and leave your (direct, mind you) allies fighting after not even a week if you disagree with their motives?

[Roadie]

[quote name='joracy' date='05 February 2010 - 09:11 PM' timestamp='1265425896' post='2162721']
Being attacked by the most powerful alliance and it's allies(and their allies a bit later)? Nah. Go home. Who would need them then?
[/quote]

The post I was responding to was questioning why TPF would defend it's allies if it told those allies that attacking CnG would be a disaster. Not about CnG allies defending CnG.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='mhawk' date='05 February 2010 - 09:53 PM' timestamp='1265424817' post='2162671']
What it boils down to is I'm pretty sure nearly all alliances on "this side" would grant white peace and end the war if possible. Why should immortals be asked to get nuked for weeks when CnG and others could end this war. I'd feel pretty guilty asking all these unrelated alliances to fight in a huge devastating war so that we could get revenge on some past grudges.
[/quote]
. . . This war was started because of TOP/IRON's grudges due to their perception of C&G's threatiness to them.

[quote name='Roadie' date='05 February 2010 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1265425889' post='2162719']
No. His argument is that CnG could have already had peace if they wanted it. The extension of that is that those still in the war on the CnG 'side' that are taking a beating are doing so to allow CnG to continue the war, not to defend CnG.
[/quote]
Why would they want peace? The people attacking them are doing so aggressively based on a hunch of what they think C&G is thinking. Now that the threat that TOP/IRON pose to C&G has revealed itself, it must be annihilated.

[Lord Fingolfin]

From all I heard, The Immortals fought with tenacity and skill that would have made their namesakes proud. Glad to see them come out with white peace

[Tromp]

[quote name='Roadie' date='06 February 2010 - 04:09 AM' timestamp='1265425776' post='2162715']
Allies need allies even more when they get themselves in a hot mess. That's what allies are for.
[/quote]
Yeah, allies need allies to be victorious in a war they themselves started... How do you feel like being a meatshield, Roadie? Clearly you (better said: your leader) disagree(s) with the war, yet you insist on fighting for their cause. See the contradition here?

[Roadie]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='05 February 2010 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1265426406' post='2162737']
Why would they want peace? The people attacking them are doing so aggressively based on a hunch of what they think C&G is thinking. Now that the threat that TOP/IRON pose to C&G has revealed itself, it must be annihilated.
[/quote]

This is a fine piece of revisionism that belies the fact that CnG desires to see TOP brought down pre-date the current conflict.

[Roadie]

[quote name='Tromp' date='05 February 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1265426549' post='2162742']
Yeah, allies need allies to be victorious in a war they themselves started... How do you feel like being a meatshield, Roadie? Clearly you (better said: your leader) disagree(s) with the war, yet you insist on fighting for their cause. See the contradition here?
[/quote]

I see what you're saying about the two positions being contradictory, but I think both lines of thought on the subject are fine. Not wanting to be a meatshield for someone who simply doesn't want to peace out a war is an acceptable intellectual position to me. As is getting nuked to oblivion for them.

I fall into the later catagory and usually look at the people in the former and wonder if maybe they're smarter than I am.

[Thrash]

[quote]This is now an epic thread. [/quote]

I would agree with that assessment 100%.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Thrash