STA Official Statement

[Zombie Glaucon]

[illegalrecruitment]Perhaps you'd like to make a change for the better?[/illegalrecruitment]

Polar's the home for me. We might not always be popular, but I think we've done great things starting from the UJW.

[Ragashingo]

Polar's the home for me. We might not always be popular, but I think we've done great things starting from the UJW.

Indeed ya'll have.

[HeinousOne]

I am seriously disappointed in STA here. I can't find another more politically correct way to put it. The alliance that is led by Tyga has dishonored everything I thought that STA stood for. The fact of the matter is that I think Londo and Athens are total !@#$%s. I can't disagree with that in any way. I left the other side of the treatyweb for the very reason that treaties are conveniences, trifles to be honored at leisure and opportunism.

The absence of Tyga from this thread saddens me more, as I've not known him to hide from the facts. And, even though it does my side no goodwill for me to wag my finger at you, I see your actions as dishonoring the history of an alliance who has put doing what is morally righteous ahead of what is easy in every occasion.

This is sad.

This judgement of honor and morality coming from one who recently departed from an alliance that had plotted subterfuge upon another sovereign alliance by inserting a protectorate with them. Now we see you making such absurd statements from within MK about an ally of theirs while at the same time most other MK members don't seem to be publically stating anything remotely similiar to what you are saying. Maybe that whole plan we heard about a while back didn't really end for some? What do you say 007?

Let me give you a hint, most of us probably don't give a damn if you personally are disappointed in us, especially considering the tripe you just posted about us.

I disagree with you. Even though you have no direct relation with Athens, you have one indirectly. If someone were to attack Athens, you would have no obligation to help them, not even when MK goes in to help Athens. This is absolutely true, however you are wrong with saying that it wouldn't affect you since your treaty partner(s) would end up in war. And as we all know war is bad for an alliance in regards of losing precious resources, you could need one day to help you out when you are on the receiving end.

I understand that you were in the situation in where you can't preserve every ally of an ally. There were very few alliances out there that could have. The only thing I found distasteful is the lack of respect to a MADP (highest treaty possible) partner. Even cheering if they get declared on, knowing that would put MK and Vanguard in a difficult situation. I seriously cannot understand why you would say that.

To comment on Stumpy, I'm not here to tell MK (nor Vanguard) what they should think of this. I am just ventilating my own thoughts on this. This is between them and STA, and no one else. But we are free to comment on this since this is in the public domain. I think this would have been better if kept private between those alliance involved.

I stand by my comment on not to ally alliance that have treaties with alliances I hate, for instance I wouldn't want to ally NEW cause that would mean I would tie myself to TPF. I cannot support NEW in wars in where they would get dragged in cause of TPF. So that's why I don't want to treaty myself to them. I don't believe in non-chaining treaties because that would basically mean you sign an ODOAP with alliances. Only when it is convenient, you will protect them? Not my cup of tea. If I ally someone I stand by them *NO MATTER WHAT*.

I am sorry if you cannot handle how STA works. We honor our allies, not our ally's allies. In this case perhaps Pez just isn't fond of Athens and being that we have no ties to them that we recognize then why should she care if Athens is hit? Now I understand if they are that puts our friends over at MK and Vanguard in a jam but just like how the nonchaining aspect of our treaties with them kept them out of our fight those same aspects would have kept us out if Athens was hit. Unfortunately it appears CnG was hit as a whole so that changes things.

So by wanting Athens to get hit, knowing MK/Vanguard would then defend via C&G you guys wouldnt have to defend them because of no chaining. How honourable!

No, that simply means that if Athens is hit then we do not care. It is not our problem that some of our allies like Athens and stand by them. They were saved by the nonchaining aspect of our treaty so that they didn't have to defend us, that blade cuts both ways. Our Allies Did get hit directly though so your point is crap. Please do not talk of Honor from the sidelines.

There goes that sterling reputation of STA, unless ofcourse. You change your mind.

Alright guys, lets pack it up and go home. Supercoolyellow of Big Top Order says we no longer have a sterling reputation.

I'm just uh....seething (yeah that's the word)with...uh...anger?

Roll STA imo.

How about....bring it?

[Ivan Moldavi]

To clarify my part of the OP, I was passing along the words of Moridin, who was heading up the Polar war effort at the time.

I was then later told that Grub was aware of the plan and had approved. I do not know what STA knew or when they knew it.

I did state to the parties involved that I thought declaring on the whole coalition of CnG was a mistake. I was not listened to.

I do not think STA has done anything dishonorable or false in this thread. They are simply expressing that they disagreed with the concept of declaring against an entire bloc, something I agree with. They have been caught between a rock and a hard place from the very beginnings of the Cluster$%&@ War and made the best decisions available to them at the time.

[uaciaut]

At the time I didn't hate anyone in Q. Nice try though.

You won't always like all your the allies of the allies of the allies *n of your allies. Hell sometimes people don't even like their direct allies. Compromises do happen and people have to accept some things, you prolly didn't always have everything go 100% your way during your CN career.

I don't mind STA having a problem with one of my allies as long as they don't put me directly in a tough position, something which they haven't up till now. The only thing that made this come out was this thread, which in all honesty i personally didn't find necessary as i trust STA enough as it is. And i won't ask them to moderate their personal opinions of anyone-but-me while in private, that would just be insulting.

[OneBallMan]

And this is why I don't like being treatied to individual members in a MADP bloc. By having a treaty with just MK or just Vanguard we're "required" to defend and stick our political necks out for LOST, and Athens, and GR, and FoB and ODN or else someone like you gets disappointed in us. We don't have treaties with any of them and its like being disappointed that we didn't go out of our way to defend someone like GATO who we have no ties to. Personally I think we should either have treaties with all of CnG (and which point we might as well just join it all together) or we should have none. I think this is a very dumb position for us to be in.

That said I am very disappointed in how disappointed you are in us. I think we all agree that these last two wars have put a lot of people in extremely tough positions. STA hold a great deal of respect for our allies in MK and Vanguard and I've seen several of our members wondering if and hoping for us to turn right around and declare on your alliance's behalf. And this is right after we got clear of a war where we were heavily outnumbered and you guys couldn't support us directly because of treaty conflicts.

We understood and respected the fact that you guys were in a bad position then. I'd ask that you do the same for us now.

Now that the peace has been found in that other conflict, I guess I don't see the same conflictual situation. Part of it is my clear view that the D takes precedence over A. That might be naive of me.

[rsoxbronco1]

blah blah blah we don't care if Athens gets hit they're not our treaty partners.

Ok, now I like STA, I get along fairly well with Tyga and most of the members, and I've already spoken to a couple members today, but $%&@ you very much. We almost rolled TWICE in support of STA without a direct treaty when you were tied to NSO. Adjust your attitude.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Ok, now I like STA, I get along fairly well with Tyga and most of the members, and I've already spoken to a couple members today, but $%&@ you very much. We almost rolled TWICE in support of STA without a direct treaty when you were tied to NSO. Adjust your attitude.

What does their past tie to NSO have to do with Athens' actions?

I don't recall ever seeing Athens declare on NSO. Weird.

[HeinousOne]

Ok, now I like STA, I get along fairly well with Tyga and most of the members, and I've already spoken to a couple members today, but $%&@ you very much. We almost rolled TWICE in support of STA without a direct treaty when you were tied to NSO. Adjust your attitude.

You said Roll STA. So why shouldn't I say bring it? Interesting that you would throw a fit over such but that which has fallen out of your mouth and right onto the page is interesting enough that I will reply to it.

How is this for an inflammatory statement: I do not care that you ALMOST rolled twice(see what I did with switching which word was all capitalized?) for us due to whatever ties you had with another alliance. Also about the fact that you threw NSO into your statement as if that is going to make me go "Oh yeah! He is right, they DID want to help us despite NSO and because they don't like NSO that should matter to me!" well I am sorry but you are wrong in that regard as well. NSO was the only alliance to come to our aid and they did that without a treaty so basically your alliance(among others) was part of the reason for two allies of ours to NOT come to our support. So you will have to pardon me when I say Go $%&@ Yourself when you bring up the two almosts.

Realize that I do not care if you have a treaty with an ally of ours and that such almost drew you to our aid, that is your problem not ours. Realize that I need not adjust my attitude to your liking either.

[jimbacher]

Ok, now I like STA, I get along fairly well with Tyga and most of the members, and I've already spoken to a couple members today, but $%&@ you very much. We almost rolled TWICE in support of STA without a direct treaty when you were tied to NSO. Adjust your attitude.

NO U.

I find it funny how MK is like good job STA, when they are talking about their own treaty partners getting rolled. Noone likes you Athens, but its ok. I still blame polar for the mess of crap that has become the cluster@#$% war.

[Canik]

To clarify my part of the OP, I was passing along the words of Moridin, who was heading up the Polar war effort at the time.

I was then later told that Grub was aware of the plan and had approved. I do not know what STA knew or when they knew it.

I did state to the parties involved that I thought declaring on the whole coalition of CnG was a mistake. I was not listened to.

I do not think STA has done anything dishonorable or false in this thread. They are simply expressing that they disagreed with the concept of declaring against an entire bloc, something I agree with. They have been caught between a rock and a hard place from the very beginnings of the Cluster$%&@ War and made the best decisions available to them at the time.

Dark Lord of the Sith - giving it to you straight.

I am disappointed in NpO, I just feel STA was along for the ride.

[HeinousOne]

NO U.

I find it funny how MK is like good job STA, when they are talking about their own treaty partners getting rolled. Noone likes you Athens, but its ok. I still blame polar for the mess of crap that has become the cluster@#$% war.

There are plenty of MK members making statements here about not liking to see us talking so nonchalantly about seeing Athens hit. You either didn't read them or you didn't read them. I get that...really I do, the part I don't get is that we are supposed to care greatly due to all that was said by MKers about NpO. They talked about our ally as is their sovereign right as we do about theirs. I don't see it as us talking about their ally I see it as us talking about Athens. Understand the difference?

[rsoxbronco1]

What does their past tie to NSO have to do with Athens' actions?

I don't recall ever seeing Athens declare on NSO. Weird.

I was saying we would have been defending NSO, not attacking.

[Earogema]

Well, now that they've been directly hit, without your permission.

Will you defend them? I mean, your treaty doesn't even have to chain!

[rsoxbronco1]

You said Roll STA. So why shouldn't I say bring it? Interesting that you would throw a fit over such but that which has fallen out of your mouth and right onto the page is interesting enough that I will reply to it.

How is this for an inflammatory statement: I do not care that you ALMOST rolled twice(see what I did with switching which word was all capitalized?) for us due to whatever ties you had with another alliance. Also about the fact that you threw NSO into your statement as if that is going to make me go "Oh yeah! He is right, they DID want to help us despite NSO and because they don't like NSO that should matter to me!" well I am sorry but you are wrong in that regard as well. NSO was the only alliance to come to our aid and they did that without a treaty so basically your alliance(among others) was part of the reason for two allies of ours to NOT come to our support. So you will have to pardon me when I say Go $%&@ Yourself when you bring up the two almosts.

Realize that I do not care if you have a treaty with an ally of ours and that such almost drew you to our aid, that is your problem not ours. Realize that I need not adjust my attitude to your liking either.

I think you read my "roll STA" bit a little too seriously.

[bzelger]

You said Roll STA.

I think he was joking?

I didn't find out about this until later, but I think we did it right, by and large. Actually encouraging a hit on Athens was probably not in optimal taste. I would be happy to apologize for that if it would make anyone feel better. We don't have a lot of love for you, but you're close to MK and that counts for a lot.

[Ivan Moldavi]

I was saying we would have been defending NSO, not attacking.

You know, I still can't figure out this mentality. I have heard this from you and MK for a while now and I am not sure I understand.

When did MK or Athens ever do anything that was protective of the NSO? If such happened, I missed it. Several MK people like to go on and on about how the NSO doesn't give them enough respect because they "almost" had to fight for us a couple of times. When was that? Did I ask you to do it? Did I ask Athens to protect poor little NSO from some big bad monster and I have just decided to get selective amnesia?

This place gets weirder and weirder. Now the hypothetical possibilities from months ago are more valuable than actual actions happening today.

[Rebel Virginia]

There are plenty of MK members making statements here about not liking to see us talking so nonchalantly about seeing Athens hit. You either didn't read them or you didn't read them. I get that...really I do, the part I don't get is that we are supposed to care greatly due to all that was said by MKers about NpO. They talked about our ally as is their sovereign right as we do about theirs. I don't see it as us talking about their ally I see it as us talking about Athens. Understand the difference?

But you're saying bad things about Athens and saying that you don't like them? How dare you say something mean about an ally of an ally? MK and Vanguard know differently however. Remember how respectful their members were to NSO when you were allied to them despite not liking them at all? That is the standard STA should be held to.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[supercoolyellow]

Now that the peace has been found in that other conflict, I guess I don't see the same conflictual situation. Part of it is my clear view that the D takes precedence over A. That might be naive of me.

Now is a bad time to be making enemies seeing as your alliance is at war, wouldn't you say? Although the great deal of responses to your comment should tell you how foolish it was.

[Fyfe XIV]

I had always kind of liked you guys but those logs make me

Still got respect though.

[HeinousOne]

I think you read my "roll STA" bit a little too seriously.

Don't you dare ruin my fun! Kindly adjust your attitude sir.

Alright alright.....maybe I did.

[Rush Sykes]

I think he was joking?

I didn't find out about this until later, but I think we did it right, by and large. Actually encouraging a hit on Athens was probably not in optimal taste. I would be happy to apologize for that if it would make anyone feel better. We don't have a lot of love for you, but you're close to MK and that counts for a lot.

An apology at this point, would be disingenuous at best. I was unaware, prior to this, that so much distaste existed within STA for Athens, but, I am fine with it. It is just disappointing to see, because its a fact, you never see any negativity towards STA coming from us, unless of course, I missed it. Either way, my allies love you guys, so we are kinda bound to one another. We will do what we must.

[Ragashingo]

An apology at this point, would be disingenuous at best. I was unaware, prior to this, that so much distaste existed within STA for Athens, but, I am fine with it. It is just disappointing to see, because its a fact, you never see any negativity towards STA coming from us, unless of course, I missed it. Either way, my allies love you guys, so we are kinda bound to one another. We will do what we must.

Not all of us dislike you. I think Athens might have made a bad decision or two in the past but I certainly still like you guys.

[Stetson76]

STA, you did everything as faithfully, and honorably as possible...so why this thread?

Those that needed to know, know. Those that don't can either ask directly, or pine away in the corner because they feel left out.

Oh well, you do what you must, but this seems beneath the public image you've so often presented.

[Ragashingo]

STA, you did everything as faithfully, and honorably as possible...so why this thread?

Those that needed to know, know. Those that don't can either ask directly, or pine away in the corner because they feel left out.

Oh well, you do what you must, but this seems beneath the public image you've so often presented.

I've always liked ending rumors the direct way, by showing everyone they aren't true. Sure having people come and ask is fine but this is quicker and makes sure the rumor doesn't spread.