Questioning the Morality: AlmightyGrub

[Starfox101]

If we let alliances like yours bully others this cyberverse is doomed to fail, because it will make people tired of creating new alliances and continue supplying us with new faces and ideas.

I just don't get it. I've never seen you complain about the world losing faces when others were running rampant. Suddenly, big bad \m/ had a one round war with a 30 member alliance and we're the plague destroying everything? I would maybe respect what you said here if a single FoA member had departed, but it doesn't appear that way. Besides, who has placed these enforcers in charge of declaring right and wrong?

Secondly, to everyone saying I am complaining of war, I am not. I am very much enjoying nuking Polar and watching their NS drop at a higher rate than \m/'s. I am merely attempting to unmask the true cause of the war and the true colors of an enemy leader.

Finally, to any Polars calling us horrible people for tech raiding, watch the war screens every now and then. Not only did GOONS also raid FoA, they regularly raid multiple nations every night. Yet, you have a treaty with them that even includes Optional Aggression. Do you turn a blind eye when they suck up to you, or what?

[Fallen Fool]

Give him the benefit of the doubt; hes telling the truth this time around

But what if he's just lying and admits it again 6 months down the road?

I'd feel so foolish

[arentak]

Everyone on my side of the treaty web is right, everyone on the other side is wrong. Is there any morality more true then that?

[Zombie Glaucon]

What if our true intentions turn out to be identical to our stated ones?

I'm genuinely interested in knowing if you're the kind of person who can allow for the possibility of this, or if you're just as empty-headed as so many others here. Is it truth you're after, or is the chip on your shoulder driving?

Ahem... yoo hoo!

[Baden-Württemberg]

Common sense tells you that forcing war upon an alliance who cant protect themselves from your superior strengths is not really a thing one should do. And especially one shouldnt cry if some even larger alliance decides to pull the same stunt on you.

What you do is utterly immoral, dont try to make it look better by referring to a possible grudge on Grubs side. He did not attack a defenseless alliance, and he did not break his own charter by doing so.

If we let alliances like yours bully others this cyberverse is doomed to fail, because it will make people tired of creating new alliances and continue supplying us with new faces and ideas.

I just don't get it. I've never seen you complain about the world losing faces when others were running rampant. Suddenly, big bad \m/ had a one round war with a 30 member alliance and we're the plague destroying everything? I would maybe respect what you said here if a single FoA member had departed, but it doesn't appear that way. Besides, who has placed these enforcers in charge of declaring right and wrong?

Secondly, to everyone saying I am complaining of war, I am not. I am very much enjoying nuking Polar and watching their NS drop at a higher rate than \m/'s. I am merely attempting to unmask the true cause of the war and the true colors of an enemy leader.

Finally, to any Polars calling us horrible people for tech raiding, watch the war screens every now and then. Not only did GOONS also raid FoA, they regularly raid multiple nations every night. Yet, you have a treaty with them that even includes Optional Aggression. Do you turn a blind eye when they suck up to you, or what?

Also HellAngel, while I am not a fan of tech raiding, I think he is raising good points. I yet have to see people declaring war on GOONS.

That said, according to their Charter they can declare on everyone and everything as long as their Triumvirate approves of it. As long as it was approved of, there is no problem.

I am not quite a fan of Starfox, but it is highly amusing how people in this thread are trying to discrediting him, just because he has a different opinion. How about you actually start trying to argue?

[HellAngel]

I just don't get it. I've never seen you complain about the world losing faces when others were running rampant. Suddenly, big bad \m/ had a one round war with a 30 member alliance and we're the plague destroying everything? I would maybe respect what you said here if a single FoA member had departed, but it doesn't appear that way. Besides, who has placed these enforcers in charge of declaring right and wrong?

Secondly, to everyone saying I am complaining of war, I am not. I am very much enjoying nuking Polar and watching their NS drop at a higher rate than \m/'s. I am merely attempting to unmask the true cause of the war and the true colors of an enemy leader.

Finally, to any Polars calling us horrible people for tech raiding, watch the war screens every now and then. Not only did GOONS also raid FoA, they regularly raid multiple nations every night. Yet, you have a treaty with them that even includes Optional Aggression. Do you turn a blind eye when they suck up to you, or what?

Hah, i very much also ranted about any other alliance committing acts i deemed despicable, i just did it privately if those alliances were allied to me.

And yes in a better world, GOONS and PC would also have been attacked, but Grub is no dummie of course. He knows what treaties do. I couldnt care less about Grubs true colours, one way or another. As long as he's directing his guns at the right direction, im fine. It's just that from my personal observation, a grudge about the old \m/ is a little bit too far fetched to apply it to the new \m/.

And i dont have so much of a problem with people raiding single nations. It's not something i dont deem dishonorable... but at least they don't attack a souvereign alliance. Alliances contribute far more to the well being of Planet Bob than unalligned nations.

[Bob Janova]

I just don't get it. I've never seen you complain about the world losing faces when others were running rampant.

Sometimes I think none of you people actually pay attention to issues that don't directly involve your own alliance.

[TheListener]

Sometimes I think none of you people actually pay attention to issues that don't directly involve your own alliance.

Now why would anyone pay attention to something that does not directly pertain to the well being of their nation or alliance.

[Prime minister Johns]

Hah, i very much also ranted about any other alliance committing acts i deemed despicable, i just did it privately if those alliances were allied to me.

And yes in a better world, GOONS and PC would also have been attacked, but Grub is no dummie of course. He knows what treaties do. I couldnt care less about Grubs true colours, one way or another. As long as he's directing his guns at the right direction, im fine. It's just that from my personal observation, a grudge about the old \m/ is a little bit too far fetched to apply it to the new \m/.

And i dont have so much of a problem with people raiding single nations. It's not something i dont deem dishonorable... but at least they don't attack a souvereign alliance. Alliances contribute far more to the well being of Planet Bob than unalligned nations.

I have had a lot of very successful tech deals and formed trade circles with unaligned nations in the past when they mostly resided on red. The unaligned serve a very useful role on Planet Bob.

And all nations start out as unaligned when they are created and it is only later that they join an alliance so they also represent the future of the alliances of planet Bob.

Treat an unaligned with respect and you might just gain a recruit or at least a new friend.

[HellAngel]

I have had a lot of very successful tech deals and formed trade circles with unaligned nations in the past when they mostly resided on red. The unaligned serve a very useful role on Planet Bob.

And all nations start out as unaligned when they are created and it is only later that they join an alliance so they also represent the future of the alliances of planet Bob.

Treat an unaligned with respect and you might just gain a recruit or at least a new friend.

I did not say unalligned nations cant serve a purpose, i said if they form an alliance and actively partake in our community their "use" is greater. And yeah, i agree with you.

[Starfox101]

But what if he's just lying and admits it again 6 months down the road?

I'd feel so foolish

Again, quit being ignorant. The essay never stated I lied or didn't believe in the cause, it was an anti-moralist essay. You really have terrible reading comprehension, or more likely, are purposely ignoring everything I say.

You're losing your touch.

Also HellAngel, while I am not a fan of tech raiding, I think he is raising good points. I yet have to see people declaring war on GOONS.

That said, according to their Charter they can declare on everyone and everything as long as their Triumvirate approves of it. As long as it was approved of, there is no problem.

I am not quite a fan of Starfox, but it is highly amusing how people in this thread are trying to discrediting him, just because he has a different opinion. How about you actually start trying to argue?

Heh, Sam just defended me. This may be the end of the world as we know it.

Maybe next, Polaris won't live and die by double standards. Perhaps, two crazy things can happen today.

[Sardonic]

Also HellAngel, while I am not a fan of tech raiding, I think he is raising good points. I yet have to see people declaring war on GOONS.

That said, according to their Charter they can declare on everyone and everything as long as their Triumvirate approves of it. As long as it was approved of, there is no problem.

Slight correction: we do not have a triumvirate.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Sardonic

[Baden-Württemberg]

Heh, Sam just defended me. This may be the end of the world as we know it.

Maybe next, Polaris won't live and die by double standards. Perhaps, two crazy things can happen today.

meh.

Honestly, I am not proud on supporting you nor do I want to kiss anyone's $@!. But I try to differ between opinions and people that state them. In my opinion Polar has every right to hit \m/, since \m/ tech raids others, and obviously wants war. But seriously, let's not pretend Polar is in any way, shape or form better than \m/. In my opinion they are even worse, because they try to make it look like they actually have honor, or even a good CB.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Baden-Württemberg

[Baldr]

In my opinion Polar has every right to hit \m/, since \m/ tech raids others, and obviously wants war. But seriously, let's not pretend Polar is in any way, shape or form better than \m/. In my opinion they are even worse, because they try to make it look like they actually have honor, or even a good CB.

Polar looks pretty good from where I sit. \m/ attacks people for no reason other than "We're bigger, we'll take what we want". That makes them bullies.

Polar, on the other hand, stood up for the little guy.

I don't like tech raiding under any circumstances, but I don't expect raiding of unaligned nations to stop. When people complain about being raided, they are told "join an alliance". But in \m/'s case, and Goons, and PC, that's not enough. They ganged up and attacked an alliance, simply because they could.

This leads to "You must be in one of the biggest alliances, or your alliance must be closely allied to one of the biggest alliances, or you will get tech raided". I don't like that at all.

Grub tried talking, and \m/ screamed "We'll do what we want - we dare you to do something about it". He also talked to Goons, and apparently got an agreement from them that they would stop raiding alliances. \m/ isn't willing to make that agreement, and instead did their best to antagonize Grub, so it came to war.

From where I sit, I know I'd trust Grub a lot more than anyone from \m/.

I also find it hypocritical for \m/ to claim they can attack any alliance they want, and then whine and cry about it when someone attacks them. If they can attack other alliances for no reason at all, they don't have room to complain when another alliance attacks them - even if that attack has no reason at all. IMO, there was a reason, but it's really irrelevant, based on the rules that \m/ claims.

[New Frontier]

Maybe next, Polaris won't live and die by double standards. Perhaps, two crazy things can happen today.

Or, even crazier, maybe Starfox will stop being terrible at arguing!

[Comrade Goby]

Polar looks pretty good from where I sit. \m/ attacks people for no reason other than "We're bigger, we'll take what we want". That makes them bullies.

Polar, on the other hand, stood up for the little guy.

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

You can't possibly be serious.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Comrade Goby

[Starfox101]

Or, even crazier, maybe Starfox will stop being terrible at arguing!

I do believe I've just witnessed some hypocrisy in action.

[Voytek]

I do believe I've just witnessed some hypocrisy in action.

I'm sure there's room for a burn regarding glass houses and stones here.

[Godwin]

Polar, on the other hand, stood up for the little guy.

What are you talking about? No it didn't... Grub even SAID it didn't have anything to do with FoA.

Seriously, where are all these ignorant statements coming from? O_o

[Baldr]

What are you talking about? No it didn't... Grub even SAID it didn't have anything to do with FoA.

Seriously, where are all these ignorant statements coming from? O_o

Ignorant is pretending that you did nothing to start this.

If it wasn't for raiding FOA and yelling "Do something about it" when people complained, this whole situation wouldn't have happened.

[King Louis the II]

The real truth is:

The only reason why this war is happening is because planet Bob is bored and most people were really frustrated because the lack of war on the last 2 world crisis (Athens-KoN and the NoWar-war). Only when people were satisfied with the war actions, that negotiations will take place. In fact negotiations may be pretty easy since it is a common sense that there is no "right" side on this war.

All the morality discussions are smoke screens..

[AlmightyGrub]

The real truth is:

The only reason why this war is happening is because planet Bob is bored and most people were really frustrated because the lack of war on the last 2 world crisis (Athens-KoN and the NoWar-war). Only when people were satisfied with the war actions, that negotiations will take place. In fact negotiations may be pretty easy since it is a common sense that there is no "right" side on this war.

All the morality discussions are smoke screens..

I am keen to see proof of this smoke screen. All IC joking aside, I do actually believe that there are community standards and that they are worth fighting for. IF I didn't I would not have burned all my political capital over something as trivial as \m/. Now you can argue around in circle all day over who is right and who is wrong, but I really do believe in what I am doing, so you can shelve the pointless gesturing at me.

If your assertions is Grub is a madman, he is wrong.. then that is fine with me. We are fighting over that right now.

If your assertion is Grub is a liar and the war is a fake because Grub wants to destroy \m/, you are wrong, will never ever be right and no amount of posting in circles will change that.

Accept or don't accept it, but it is actually the truth... I know that is difficult to believe because you simply don't see it too often.

[Merrie Melodies]

I am keen to see proof of this smoke screen. All IC joking aside, I do actually believe that there are community standards and that they are worth fighting for. IF I didn't I would not have burned all my political capital over something as trivial as \m/. Now you can argue around in circle all day over who is right and who is wrong, but I really do believe in what I am doing, so you can shelve the pointless gesturing at me.

If your assertions is Grub is a madman, he is wrong.. then that is fine with me. We are fighting over that right now.

If your assertion is Grub is a liar and the war is a fake because Grub wants to destroy \m/, you are wrong, will never ever be right and no amount of posting in circles will change that.

Accept or don't accept it, but it is actually the truth... I know that is difficult to believe because you simply don't see it too often.

Grub, I am your enemy in this war and I accept you believe you are doing what you believe is right, I am not saying you are right

tbh it's my understanding this war is over a few words in the final terms, am I wrong?

[AlmightyGrub]

Grub, I am your enemy in this war and I accept you believe you are doing what you believe is right, I am not saying you are right

tbh it's my understanding this war is over a few words in the final terms, am I wrong?

Ultimately MM, yes. The real issue is that the people I believe are in the wrong are demanding a concession from me, I am more than happy to make a concession in the spirit of solving the issue, but I have a limit.

[Merrie Melodies]

Ultimately MM, yes. The real issue is that the people I believe are in the wrong are demanding a concession from me, I am more than happy to make a concession in the spirit of solving the issue, but I have a limit.

It would appear that we both have the same exact view on the issue just from opposite sides of the table, you know it is possible for us to be both right and both wrong all at the same time.