Ogaden Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Um, what? I didn't conspire with them, yet I support them. Honestly, it's funny to see TPF coming out of the wood works in a failed attempt to criticize Athens. Lest we forget, you are the ones who did a little thing known as espionage. Lest we also forget, you aren't in UED, so how do you possibly know the context being discussed? I don't either, but I choose to question your logic because questioning myself would just seem rather weird, and enough children stare at me when I walk by as it is. They're tossing spaghetti against the wall to see if it sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Having actually read the logs, I know you're attempting a bluff here. In the logs itself it proves that KDII changed the charter whenever he saw fit. It's hardly a a real charter but a dictator, which is mainly the reason why the rest of the alliance wanted him to be couped, not Athens. Of course WC, but they don't have anything else to try. Why are you even trying? this is war time Penlugue...everyone just wants to bash Athens and are using anything they can get. Some of us believe that maybe people can see reason if it is shoved into their face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PX6DEVASTATER Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 quick, lets all bash athens for attempting to help the member ship of an alliance as per that memberships wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Wait, so the membership of UED was wrong to want to start a new alliance because they couldn't stand KDII's leadership anymore?How outrageous of them! Somebody should have told them that they should shut up and endure. They could have started a new alliance and went on from there. Also I love C&G calling 5 gov members the whole alliance of UED. Hypocrisy at its best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 The difference is that Athens didn't plan to disband UED, that was their idea. We offered to protect both UED (which we effectively did with our ODP), or the new incarnation that those who had couped KD2 planned on making. They decided to salvage UED, and we signed a treaty. It was their decision, but we offered them protection. I think people are missing this post. I don't think that the ministers represented the wishes of the people but aside from that, I agree with the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hurr Durr This situation might be similar if it wasn't for the fact that UED Gov members where apart of that conversation ans asking Athens for direction. Please for the love of Admin explain how that is similar to TPF sending a sleeper cell to infiltrate Athens, come on I need a good laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delendum Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I think, that Athen's direct participation is the issue at hand, not the crappy leadership of KDII, which no one with any history would question. You guys supported a de facto, de jure coup of a sovereign alliance leader. With fava beans and a nice chianti. It is the irony that is delicious, not the act. Oh right, it has to be evil because it has Athens in it. How silly of them to try and help a community trying to get rid of a poor excuse for a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I think, that Athen's direct participation is the issue at hand, not the crappy leadership of KDII, which no one with any history would question. You guys supported a de facto, de jure coup of a sovereign alliance leader. With fava beans and a nice chianti. It is the irony that is delicious, not the act. An alliance's allies have their interests at heart. If your ally had an insane leader, and the government of that alliance approached you to help them out of that situation, are you telling me you would not help them? What about noWedge? What happened there? Didn't people /outside/ of the alliance support that coup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I think, that Athen's direct participation is the issue at hand, not the crappy leadership of KDII, which no one with any history would question. You guys supported a de facto, de jure coup of a sovereign alliance leader. With fava beans and a nice chianti. It is the irony that is delicious, not the act. Athens "direct participation" was because of UED's request. They had no involvement really besides being the ones that UED wanted a protectorate from, again a standard practice for all new alliances. I wonder where TPF stood during Ivan's/Moo's coup of NPO though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I think, that Athen's direct participation is the issue at hand, not the crappy leadership of KDII, which no one with any history would question. You guys supported a de facto, de jure coup of a sovereign alliance leader. With fava beans and a nice chianti. It is the irony that is delicious, not the act. Oh, so it was only wrong because Athens did it! Now I see. Thank you for sharing your logic with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delendum Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 They could have started a new alliance and went on from there. Also I love C&G calling 5 gov members the whole alliance of UED. Hypocrisy at its best. What exactly are you calling hypocritical? We're talking about the whole government of UED. If the rest of the membership was perfectly fine with KDII's leadership, don't you think he would have appointed other people instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Intelligent debate died a while ago so trying to convince any of the "hypocrisy!!" people that they're drawing parallels between two incomparable situations is pointless. It's either genuine ignorance and stupidity or an agenda, since we're on the brink of war and people need the PR. I'm praying for the latter. That being said, carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Oh right, it has to be evil because it has Athens in it. How silly of them to try and help a community trying to get rid of a poor excuse for a leader. yeah 5 gov members represent the whole community right?? Also hilarious how Londo didnt want an alliance wide vote. what too scared that you might lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NationReaper Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 You guys are completely right..UED should have just been left there and what promising members they HAD could have just sat there and wasted their talents..BAD ATHENS..BAD! [/sarcasm] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 They're tossing spaghetti against the wall to see if it sticks. You, sir, got graham crackers in my clam chowder. If they think that 'spaghetti' is going to stick against the wall... they may want to try using some glue next time to save themselves the embarrassment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcades057 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 You guys in Mushroom Kingdom, I feel your pain, really I do. I remember being in FAN when VE was attacked by the Initiative and trying to come up with excuses for it. Oh yeah, I remember those days... A few days from now, you can admit we were right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Oh right, it has to be evil because it has Athens in it. How silly of them to try and help a community trying to get rid of a poor excuse for a leader. Yes, interfering with the sovereign leadership and government of an alliance is a maleable concept. You know what? I'm changing my argument about the Athens CB. TPF was only trying and help a community trying to get rid of a poor excuse for a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilrow Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 [22:52] <rsoxbronco1> no[22:52] <rsoxbronco1> we're not stepping in [22:52] <rsoxbronco1> this is an internal UED matter [22:52] <Pinkiwi[uED]> cool [22:52] <KOwens06[uED]> I agree [22:53] <rsoxbronco1> we're not going to be muscle [22:53] <rsoxbronco1> here's what your timeline should look like [22:53] <rsoxbronco1> tomorrow night, announce your big post about amending the charter and removing KDII [22:54] <rsoxbronco1> you install whoever you want as your new leader [22:54] <rsoxbronco1> I don't really care who [22:54] <rsoxbronco1> the thread will either die quickly [22:54] <rsoxbronco1> or rage for a few days "We aren't getting involved with your internal matter, but this is what you should do." o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 They could have started a new alliance and went on from there. Also I love C&G calling 5 gov members the whole alliance of UED. Hypocrisy at its best. And a lack of understanding at its best it appears for you. I think people are missing this post. I don't think that the ministers represented the wishes of the people but aside from that, I agree with the above. I think you have no evidence to support that, and my own personal knowledge of UED would lead me to question that the wishes of the people were to have KD2 lead them. I don't see anything that shows that the members opposed this in any way :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NationReaper Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) Edit: Missread quote Edited December 31, 2009 by Voldorish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Lol, this is funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delgursh Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Is that what you're doing? I thought you were trying to voice an opinion or something crazy like that. Is it wrong to do that too? I thought that's what the OWF was all about these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted December 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hurr DurrThis situation might be similar if it wasn't for the fact that UED Gov members where apart of that conversation ans asking Athens for direction. Please for the love of Admin explain how that is similar to TPF sending a sleeper cell to infiltrate Athens, come on I need a good laugh. Its nothing alike. TPF talked about it. Athens talked about. No one really did anything. Oh wait maybe it is alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 You guys in Mushroom Kingdom, I feel your pain, really I do. I remember being in FAN when VE was attacked by the Initiative and trying to come up with excuses for it. Oh yeah, I remember those days...A few days from now, you can admit we were right. Excuses for what? FAN wasn't treatied to VE.... Yes, interfering with the sovereign leadership and government of an alliance is a maleable concept. You know what? I'm changing my argument about the Athens CB. TPF was only trying and help a community trying to get rid of a poor excuse for a leader. The sovereign government itself was the one asking for help, thus nullifying your argument that Athen's goal was to cause any harm to UED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delendum Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 yeah 5 gov members represent the whole community right?? Also hilarious how Londo didnt want an alliance wide vote. what too scared that you might lose? You're right, when the whole government of an alliance are against one person, it's clearly that one person who is most representative of the alliance's general feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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