SuperFriends = Incompetent

[hizzy]

Respecting RIA's sovereignty has little to do with it, they hold an MADP. If NV allowed 1TF to go to war w/o backing them up through AZTEC, I would lose respect for them too.

Easy there buddy.

If any of our treaty partners want to do something on their own for some reason or another (duel for bragging rights, war, etc), that's their own prerogative and we're definitely not going to dictate what they can and can't do with their infra.

Nonetheless, if we look back on the Karma war, our allies in Aurora Borealis decided to stick with Echelon and declined help. We respected their decision even though it put us on opposite sides of the playing field. once it became clear that their war with GOD was nothing but a farce to fill someone's ego, we prepared to step in. That front ended before we rolled out, but the principle of it is still there; your buddy wants to do what he wants on his own, then let him. But when it turns into something retarded, you step in.

This was going to be a 1v1 duel, Fark needs to shut up and let RIA make their own decisions.

Edited December 27, 2009 by hizzy

[Fallen Fool]

hey guys look over here http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=76885

Honestly the only post worth reading in this thread.

Mostly because the NSO-SF/DF rivalry (or whatever the hell it is) has already been beaten to death harder then that dead horse over yonder.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Fallen_Fool

[monkeybum]

I fail to see FARK's point. If your ally informst you that they don't want you to join a conflict, you don't join the conflict. Its as simple as that. So if two alliances decided to go 1 VS 1, they should be allowed to do so.

[Kzoppistan]

Don't get a stroke over this, dude. You guys are trying WAY too hard. o_o You're not even making any sense anymore.

Also, this argument is silly and mild compared to the home front arguing. >_>

Who's "you guys?" I personally don't care. RIA and NSO and sit around and play tiddlywinks for all I care. I was making casual conversation about the specifics.

And in reference to my post, for many many years alliances would use skirmish to test each other to see how strong their abilities were, if they had the guts to actually war, ect.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Kzoppistan

[Stonewall Jaxon]

From a negotiating/IR standpoint, Moldavi looks like A-Rod playing in the little leagues when talking to Fark. Randomly, if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

[Chief Savage Man]

From a negotiating/IR standpoint, Moldavi looks like A-Rod playing in the little leagues when talking to Fark. Randomly, if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

Moldavi just has A-Rod's ego. Truth be told, he's a relic.

[Stonewall Jaxon]

Moldavi just has A-Rod's ego. Truth be told, he's a relic.

The irony of a \m/ member calling another man a relic is nothing short of overwhelming.

[Goose]

Basically we have over a reasonably short amount of time NSO making Superfriends look like utter fools. First we have NSO rolling RAD and Ragnarok being cowards about it and doing nothing. Then we have Corinan calling out CSN randomly, and CSN doing nothing about it. Then another SF satellite alliance, Dark Fist, makes an utter fool of themselves, ending up with NSO spinning even a demand for reparations into a positive thing for them.

And now, we’re at RIA and Fark being utterly incompetent as well. First we have Delta who decides out of the blue to challenge NSO to a 1v1 despite not actually having cleared the challenge before hand.

(source = http://!@#$%*.com/!@#$%*.php?dl=m11352753)

The vote has apparently failed, and RIA looks utterly incompetent now that a leader of theirs would bluster when he had nothing to back it up.

And now to top it off, we have the leader of Fark apparently looking like a moron, trying to restrict what RIA can and can’t do as a sovereign alliance and also blaming NSO for RIA challenging them (mentioned in the above log with Delta):

Superfriends, you’re just downright pathetic. NSO has beat you every time your paths cross.

My good sir, your understanding of the situation involving CSN is quite wrong. Corinan threatened to declare war on us. We laughed at him, he didn't declare war. I don't really care how often or how totally seriously some blowhard thumps his chest and shakes his fist at me. CSN will not react to such posturing with war.

The only thing that I've learned from all of this is that I can do whatever the hell I want, whenever the hell I want, and no one will do a damn thing to stop me. Truly, a God amongst mere mortals.

Indeed, we quake at your feet my dear Corinan. Thank you for not leaking the logs of our conversation where I begged for your mercy.

[Näktergal]

And now to top it off, we have the leader of Fark apparently looking like a moron, trying to restrict what RIA can and can’t do as a sovereign alliance

To be fair, you are implicitly and voluntarily giving up a degree of sovereignty when you join a bloc. Just like you implicitly and voluntarily give up a degree of national sovereignty when you join an alliance. Essentially, you are trading the freedom to act in any way you choose for the security of having allies to defend you. The power, influence, and safety that comes from having strong allies goes hand-in-hand with the responsibility to not completely screw those allies over with your own ill-planned and dangerous behavior. As soon as you tie yourself to others, so that they may have to suffer the consequences of YOUR actions, you have an obligation to do your best to make sure you consider the consequences of your actions before acting, so you DON'T drag your allies down over something stupid.

And in that sense, if people in Fark feel like RIA are starting completely unnecessary trouble and are generally acting like tools, then Fark would absolutely have the right to go out of their way to try and smooth things over and stop things from going really, really bad. Doubly so if there's a significant chance that Fark is eventually going to wind up get sucked into a major war over it.

In real life, if I go out with one of my friends, and he gets drunk starts picking fights with random strangers, I'm fully entitled to try to talk him down, try and talk the other person (maybe by pointing out he's completely drunk and doesn't mean what he's saying), or otherwise trying to keep him from getting himself and other friends into trouble. And if he doesn't listen, and it becomes a repetitive sort of behavior, I'll almost certainly stop talking to that person, or hanging out with them.

So in that sense, if RIA starts doing things that their close allies feel are foolish or self-destructive, those allies are fully within their rights to try and convince RIA to step down, or try to otherwise stop things from going too far. And if they keep pushing policy that their allies simply cannot justify, or keep putting those allies in unnecessary danger because they selfishly refuse to consider the consequences of their actions, their allies would be fully justified in cutting ties entirely.

Now I'm not saying RIA is behaving like that, but if Fark thinks they are, then I see nothing wrong with Fark trying to do something about it.

You can criticize how the situation was handled, but trying to use individual sovereignty as a catch-all defense for any and all behavior shouldn't even be on the table from anyone who is actually over the age of 12. Life simply doesn't work that way.

And the premise that alliances should support the actions of their allies, regardless of how horrifically bad their behavior or foreign policy happens to be, or how many situations they provoke, is quite frankly one of the stupidest concepts CN has ever managed to produce.

[hizzy]

I don't think anyone can argue that you don't lose a degree of sovereignty as you mentioned, but what Fark was demonstrating is a little over the top.

Hell, the entire point of the duel was so that it wouldn't bring their friends down or cause unnecessary trouble. So where do you draw the line? Can bloc partners recommend re-doing elections if a jackass gets voted into office?

Moldavi just has A-Rod's ego. Truth be told, he's a relic.

I love the implication that you still can't figure out how to beat a guy who's been playing with the same playbook for 4 years. It's as if NSO keeps throwing short passes to the wide-outs, yet the defense still hasn't figured out not to blitz the goddamn CB.

Edited December 27, 2009 by hizzy

[Sin]

Wow, what an interesting turn of events. I wonder what Superfriends will look like after this!

Oh btw o/ NSO

[Arcturus Jefferson]

I don't think anyone can argue that you don't lose a degree of sovereignty as you mentioned, but what Fark was demonstrating is a little over the top.

Hell, the entire point of the duel was so that it wouldn't bring their friends down or cause unnecessary trouble. So where do you draw the line? Can bloc partners recommend re-doing elections if a jackass gets voted into office?

In light of what other Superfriends are up to, this duel would cause definite unnecessary trouble.

I love the implication that you still can't figure out how to beat a guy who's been playing with the same playbook for 4 years. It's as if NSO keeps throwing short passes to the wide-outs, yet the defense still hasn't figured out not to blitz the goddamn CB.

Or at least ignore him. Jeez.

[youwish959]

yet the defense still hasn't figured out not to blitz the goddamn CB.

Actually they kinda are doing exactly that. Blitzing their CornerBack at themselves.

[Prime minister Johns]

The moral of this story is:

Never try to argue with Ivan Moldavi, you won't win. it's like trying to nail fog to a wall.

[SpacingOutMan]

USELESS DRIBBLE

OOC: So who are you? A cute reroll? Multi?

IC: You really prove that you are the dullest tool in Home Depot.

[wickedj]

The moral of this story is:

Never try to argue with Ivan Moldavi, you won't win. it's like trying to nail fog to a wall.

You mean Jell-o....nailing Jell-o to a wall

[dejarue]

NSO didn't make anyone look like anything other than annoyed.

A poorly informed FARK leader mouthed off and embarrassed himself. Somehow this will probably actually turn an NSO PR disaster (Corinan mouthing off and Ivan having to cover his $@! by saying nothing Corinan says means anything, ever, followed by infinite posturing with DF) into an embarrassment for us because NSO got the last word before the fireworks started.

Amazing.

Excuse me, I have to go talk to people concerned about an actual war. NSO can continue to sit on the sidelines and snipe at 20-member alliances.

[The Corrupt Teacher]

All I have to say is Fark looking like morons is always a plus. Man I need to follow the World Affairs section more. '

[Starcraftmazter]

Then another SF satellite alliance, Dark Fist, makes an utter fool of themselves, ending up with NSO spinning even a demand for reparations into a positive thing for them.

Superfriends' satellite alliance leader reporting for duty.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Starcraftmazter

[This Charming Man]

ROFL. gud 1 scm.

2fun-e!

[Jebbie]

Superfriends' satellite alliance leader reporting for duty.

this is one of the worst posts i have ever seen

great job keep up the good work yeah