Declaration of Solidarity

[Schattenmann]

I, too, proclaim myself to be the embodiment of Solidarity on the red team.

o/

So basically these guys set up a place for red alliances to hang out, chat and build some unity and the NPO come along and smack them down because they weren't invited to the party.

Congratuations on the DoS guys, I think it could do great things for the sphere and for the future of the game with more new alliances on red.

@ NPO - When the fears gone, what do you have left on your sphere?

No, not basically.

Basically, Red Dawn has already been doing everything Solidarity aims to do for months, with one difference: Solidarity's signatories refuse to include 30% of the Red team while Red Dawn embraces 100% of the Red team.

[King Death II]

Ok im gonna just get this out there. Im tired of being accused of walking out on RD talks early. Im going to get set this straight, Red Dawn was me and Vilien's idea to start with. I helped him set it up, get all the other alliances involved and did more work for it then you will ever know. At first I did not want NPO to be in it but I was talked to let NPO in and I worked with NPO on the bloc. I helped Moo set up the forum, I helped make the IRC channels and I even wrote up the initial treaty text. It of course was scrapped and the current RD text was used but I did a lot of work for it. I saw NPO trying to strong arm themselves into the bloc with Fran and Hell Scream's help and I fought it for as long as I could from the inside. It was probebly close to 2 months that I worked on a red unity bloc. I saw there was a huge split in Red Dawn with NPO, TDP, CoJ, and Frans alliance vs Lith, UED, SWF on the other side with TMF kinda neutral. I did not want to be blamed for being the "obstructionists" in RD so I took the high road and said we werent interested in RD. SWF did the same. Just last month, I contacted Schatt and NPO to get trade circles done even though UED was not in RD and they were cool with it. A few weeks passed and I didnt hear of any updates on it so I assumed they forgot. Dont tell me that I havent used a diplomatic approach, I have, I tried and I failed. Close to 100 days (maybe more) passes and I check up on RD and I see that NONE of the signatories have gotten a trade circle done. More than 100 days later of RD forming, 0 trade circles have been made. Now tell me why I should join a failed bloc which with NPO's 600ish members and the other 4 alliances in RD can not get even 1 single trade circle in 100 days. There is slow and then there is failed.

[Sargun II]

BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Fixed it for you.

also: I'm not on red. I must rectify this situation.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Sargun

[The Pansy]

12 year old rant

He is collecting up all his toys, and NPO isn't allowed to play with them

[Velken]

First I want to say I feel this is a great day not only for the Soviet Union but for out comrades in SWF and UED.

I'm also going to clear a few things up while I'm here, on the subject of Red Dawn. The Soviet Union was never approached about the RD bloc. We didn't even hear of it until after it had been formed. Awhile back I recall someone saying that we didn't join RD because of the NPO. Again we were never brought in on the discussions, as for NPO we've never had any problems with them.

[bakamitai]

I know diplomacy is new to NPO and the ablity to give a rats about anyone other than the NPO is difficult but how about you let them set up their group, you carry on with yours, you grow as an alliance, learn to accept that you don't rule the world and then all sit down like adults and talk.

Really talk, don't list demands and throw a fit when you don't get your way (thats to both of you) and reach an agreement, and if you can't. Then don't troll their threads like little kids who scream when they don't get there was so they can spoil everyone elses

Wait, are we allowed to troll other people's threads or not? The rules keep changing, I'm confused.

[King Death II]

He is collecting up all his toys, and NPO isn't allowed to play with them

Before you go make statements like that, have you even read it? And its not a rant, its a statement of facts.

[Branimir]

Wait, are we allowed to troll other people's threads or not? The rules keep changing, I'm confused.

The Dragon makes the rules, who are you to second judge it.

I think we all need to ask ourselves: "What do we have when the fear is gone?" Thats deep man, thats deep.

Also Dilber did you heard the Dragon, diplomacy being new to NPO. I too always thought you couldn't diplo Dilber

[Sequoia Throne]

First I want to say I feel this is a great day not only for the Soviet Union but for out comrades in SWF and UED.

I'm also going to clear a few things up while I'm here, on the subject of Red Dawn. The Soviet Union was never approached about the RD bloc. We didn't even hear of it until after it had been formed. Awhile back I recall someone saying that we didn't join RD because of the NPO. Again we were never brought in on the discussions, as for NPO we've never had any problems with them.

Maybe it's because nobody knows who the hell you are. You should have come to Red Dawn, I guarantee you would have been warmly welcomed, no matter how small you are. You guys aren't going to do very well here if you expect all future treaty partners to come to you.

[The Big Bad]

Before you go make statements like that, have you even read it? And its not a rant, its a statement of facts.

The only fact I saw in that mess of tears was

I have, I tried and I failed.

I am pretty sure that describes the future of Solidarity as well.

[The Big Bad]

First I want to say I feel this is a great day not only for the Soviet Union but for out comrades in SWF and UED.

I'm also going to clear a few things up while I'm here, on the subject of Red Dawn. The Soviet Union was never approached about the RD bloc. We didn't even hear of it until after it had been formed. Awhile back I recall someone saying that we didn't join RD because of the NPO. Again we were never brought in on the discussions, as for NPO we've never had any problems with them.

Odds are they did not know you existed I am sure if you went to them they would be happy to pull you of the this mess of a bloc and in to Red Dawn where at least they are all red alliances.

[The Pansy]

Before you go make statements like that, have you even read it? And its not a rant, its a statement of facts.

The 12 year old rant, I did read it, and to be honest I know for a fact trades have been set up on the red dawn boards, I also know others have used NPO's Red Square, and since when is trades the epitome of a Unity pact

I do see Biff Webster of Wagglefka currently holding a senate, and this from a 7 person alliance.

Is that not a sign that the unity is actually working as intended??

Edited November 14, 2009 by The Pansy

[Velken]

Maybe it's because nobody knows who the hell you are. You should have come to Red Dawn, I guarantee you would have been warmly welcomed, no matter how small you are. You guys aren't going to do very well here if you expect all future treaty partners to come to you.

All alliances we have treaties with we went to them

We are not against signing treaties with NPO or anyone else for that matter. As for us being more on the open world scene, that day will come. We've focused most of our time building our alliance community and so on. We mind our own business most of them time when it comes to the affairs of others.

[Style #386]

I am shocked that UED still exists. Shame on you for fooling two smaller alliances with your "Solidarity" act, and shame on your for making me feel sympathetic toward the NPO (not that they need it in this case).

Honestly, you should just post a "Ha ha, got you all, this was a joke!", deal with the repercussions, and get to work on your apology to Red Dawn.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Style #386

[andyt2k]

The Dragon makes the rules, who are you to second judge it.

I think we all need to ask ourselves: "What do we have when the fear is gone?" Thats deep man, thats deep.

Also Dilber did you heard the Dragon, diplomacy being new to NPO. I too always thought you couldn't diplo Dilber

Childish name calling and laughing at someone without debating the points.

Yeah NPO have changed a LOT

How about instead of trolling people who don't do what you want, you wait, see what happens with the two spheres and negotiate later on.

No you don't have to go begging to them, seeing as there are other members of Red Dawn you could let them talk and reach an understanding down the line if it's not going to benefit red having 2 groups

[Schattenmann]

First I want to say I feel this is a great day not only for the Soviet Union but for out comrades in SWF and UED.

As much as I can for a group whose founding document places it at odds with the group I'm involved in, I am glad that you three have come to the fruition of your efforts. I personally and proffessionally (1) had no real problem with reported-Solidarity senate ambitions, but (2) think it's a mistake to try and start a parallel trading structure. Senate competetition is fun (get in your wayback machine and check out my old Black team activities), but a split on trading is only going to make things complicated.

I'm also going to clear a few things up while I'm here, on the subject of Red Dawn. The Soviet Union was never approached about the RD bloc. We didn't even hear of it until after it had been formed. Awhile back I recall someone saying that we didn't join RD because of the NPO. Again we were never brought in on the discussions, as for NPO we've never had any problems with them.

I honestly don't think SU was founded when RD was in talks or even until after we had announced. We were pretty lazy until about 2 months ago so not only SU but pretty much anyone that didn't come to us didn't hear from us. I don't regard SU's non-involvement in RD as an anti-NPO thing because I haven't witnessed that from SU gov (I haven't spoken to SU at all), unfortunately, you're being lumped in with your associates who are firmly anti-inclusion.

Ok im gonna just get this out there. Im tired of being accused of walking out on RD talks early. Im going to get set this straight, Red Dawn was me and Vilien's idea to start with. I helped him set it up, get all the other alliances involved and did more work for it then you will ever know. At first I did not want NPO to be in it but I was talked to let NPO in and I worked with NPO on the bloc. I helped Moo set up the forum, I helped make the IRC channels and I even wrote up the initial treaty text. It of course was scrapped and the current RD text was used but I did a lot of work for it. I saw NPO trying to strong arm themselves into the bloc with Fran and Hell Scream's help and I fought it for as long as I could from the inside. It was probebly close to 2 months that I worked on a red unity bloc. I saw there was a huge split in Red Dawn with NPO, TDP, CoJ, and Frans alliance vs Lith, UED, SWF on the other side with TMF kinda neutral. I did not want to be blamed for being the "obstructionists" in RD so I took the high road and said we werent interested in RD. SWF did the same. Just last month, I contacted Schatt and NPO to get trade circles done even though UED was not in RD and they were cool with it. A few weeks passed and I didnt hear of any updates on it so I assumed they forgot. Dont tell me that I havent used a diplomatic approach, I have, I tried and I failed. Close to 100 days (maybe more) passes and I check up on RD and I see that NONE of the signatories have gotten a trade circle done. More than 100 days later of RD forming, 0 trade circles have been made. Now tell me why I should join a failed bloc which with NPO's 600ish members and the other 4 alliances in RD can not get even 1 single trade circle in 100 days. There is slow and then there is failed.

In general your facts are correct, but your timeline is false and therefore creates a false version of history.

1. FIRE starts Red Unity talks, invites CoJ, UED, SWF, and I think that's all the Red AAs there were at the time. FIRE and CoJ thought NPO should be invited, UED and SWF flipped out and left, see:

Session Start: Mon Jul 06 00:26:39 2009

Session Ident: King_Death_II[uED]

[00:26] Session Ident: King_Death_II[uED] (removed hostmask info)

[00:26] <King_Death_II[uED]> hey

[00:26] <King_Death_II[uED]> you are kidding right?

[00:26] <Schattenmann[CoJ]> Hey

[00:26] <King_Death_II[uED]> dont let us ally with NPO

[00:27] <Schattenmann[CoJ]> Nah. NPO sucks balls but it defeats the point of a trade forum to preclude 800 nations [note: this was 4 months ago and I was fresh out of Vox]

[00:28] <King_Death_II[uED]> well trade is one thing

[00:28] <King_Death_II[uED]> aid is another

[00:28] <King_Death_II[uED]> also

[00:28] <King_Death_II[uED]> we can do it without NPO

[00:28] <King_Death_II[uED]> none of the FIRE guys have the vision and passion

[00:30] <Schattenmann[CoJ]> They're very ambitious

[00:30] <King_Death_II[uED]> well

[00:31] <King_Death_II[uED]> im not gonna be a part of NPO and FIRE

[00:32] <King_Death_II[uED]> what do you wanna do?

[00:32] <King_Death_II[uED]> UED isnt gonna be a part of that failboat

[00:33] <Schattenmann[CoJ]> Signing a senate agreement that removes one of NPO's senators and sets up a trade forum is not "allying" with NPO

...[00:42] <King_Death_II[uED]> allying with NPO isnt smart

[00:42] <King_Death_II[uED]> and it never will be

[00:42] <King_Death_II[uED]> later!

[00:42] <Schattenmann[CoJ]> Trade cooperation with NPO isn't "allying"

[00:42] <Schattenmann[CoJ]> It's facing the reality that NPO has 800 people with resources we all need

[00:42] <King_Death_II[uED]> there are 500 unalligned red teamers

[00:43] <King_Death_II[uED]> plus the other unalligneds that will change color for trade circles

[00:43] <King_Death_II[uED]> you dont NEED NPO

...

[00:47] <King_Death_II[uED]> but we dont need them

[00:48] <King_Death_II[uED]> it might be a tough month or two

[00:48] <King_Death_II[uED]> but at the end of it all

[00:48] <King_Death_II[uED]> its worth it to not have a dying, hated alliance be even remotely allied to you

Session Close: Mon Jul 06 02:47:49 2009

2. FIRE disbands and basically Red unity talks die for a couple months.

3. Crimson Guard writes a Red unity treaty, floats it to CoJ and maybe others, but . . .

4. UED starts new talks. CoJ, Monolith, Destiny Project, Crimson Guard, and SWF. Talks are hosted on UED's forum and on IRC. Since CG, Destiny Project, and CoJ were all the same people that wanted NPO and its 600 trading nations involved in a TRADE bloc, NPO gets invited again, and UED goes along with it. Me and Vladimir propose amendments to the charter written by UED, and the next week UED announces that we're not using that charter anymore, that UED is writing a new one.

5. UED pulls out and stops hosting the Red Dawn forum. You're nice enough to give Moo the forum database so we don't lose all the talks. SWF pulls out at the same time.

You also keep harping on RD's inability to fill circles so far. My own personal circle would have been Red Dawn's first complete circle. It had two UED nations in it that were signed up by you. When the time came for them to join, neithe rof them replied to ingame messages (despite reading them), your various gov kept blowing me off, meanwhile RD looks amateur and the other prospects get frustrated and go back to their old trade arrangements, then you have the GALL to come on the OWF and say that Red Dawn "forgot" about discussion with you for UED nations to trade with RD. All they have to do is register at the forum and start trading.

[JackSkellington]

Snip.

You're obviously the hero of the red team. Why, you should be made the senator for all 3 slots. Switch over to red first and I'll see what I can do.

[Sequoia Throne]

All alliances we have treaties with we went to them

We are not against signing treaties with NPO or anyone else for that matter. As for us being more on the open world scene, that day will come. We've focused most of our time building our alliance community and so on. We mind our own business most of them time when it comes to the affairs of others.

Right, but you were just complaining that Red Dawn didn't approach you for entrance. If you were really interested in red solidarity, you should have come to the existing unity treaty and worked with the existing Red alliances. By setting up a rival unity treaty, you are doing the exact opposite of unifying red. So what exactly is the point of this except to spite us?

[Branimir]

Childish name calling and laughing at someone without debating the points.

So, what you are saying is,...you are NOT the Dragon of the Poles?

Hey man I am just going by the titles you gave yourself,...

Also, your posts were covered fluently already and were given much more serious attention then they warranted. I cant be bothered with all that as well, Dra,...ehm,..so what is your title then?

[Error Operator]

KDII: No U!

RD: BUt we tried and you left.

KDII: Well yea, no u, left

RD: You can still join

KDII: No u, go away

RD: HawHaw 12 year old boy, see, we can no u, you too.

[Penkala]

KDII, you're a terrible leader, and your actions have gotten me to agree with NPO. You should be ashamed.

[Sequoia Throne]

KDII, you're a terrible leader, and your actions have gotten me to agree with NPO. You should be ashamed.

Oh snap

That's got to be a first.

Edit: substance and stuff

Edited November 14, 2009 by Straylight

[kevin32891]

I think we should all give KDII and others a chance to their "red unity". If it fails no biggie, they can try to join RD.

As a side note KDII you should try changing your team color to Red so people can take you more seriously.

[kevin32891]

KDII, you're a terrible leader, and your actions have gotten me to agree with NPO. You should be ashamed.

Wow maybe next he might be joining the NPO or maybe hugging it out with us in the NSO.

[Locke]

So basically these guys set up a place for red alliances to hang out, chat and build some unity and the NPO come along and smack them down because they weren't invited to the party.

Congratuations on the DoS guys, I think it could do great things for the sphere and for the future of the game with more new alliances on red.

@ NPO - When the fears gone, what do you have left on your sphere?

Umm...what? Last I checked, RD was "a place for red alliances to hang out, chat and build some unity." These fellas here decided they didn't like that and made their own rival bloc to antagonize RD.

BAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW

Yeah, Schatt said it all here.