Rating alliances

[Mind Virus]

Due to me being bored, I decided to add color tags to everything.

5 = Neutral

TOP - 5

MHA - 5

Sparta - 3

NpO - 7

IRON - 4

ODN - 2

FARK - 8

GPA - 3

NPO - 6

FOK - 5

MK - 8

WTF - 5

TOOL - 5

TDO - 5

VE - 8

Legion - 4

RoK - 2

GATO - 4

CSN - 5

Athens - 6

Gremlins - 3

MCXA - 2

UPN - 5

RIA - 5

STA - 7

Invicta - 4

RnR - 5

MASH - 5

NADC - 4

WAPA - 5

NV - 5

NSO - 2

NEW - 5

MA - 7

Umbrella - 6

FAN - 8

LoSS - 5

TSO - 2

NATO - 5

Nordreich - 4

GR - 5

Vanguard - 8

GOD - 10

FoB - 5

PC - 2

Valhalla - 1

GGA - 1

TPF - 2

[Khyber]

I could dig through this thread and bring up all the quotes of 'jack keeps saying we are stat whores etc' but it would take too long.

TOP is petty.

Really? I thought SG hit it on the head to be honest. But I like the most petty alliance award, one less stat to compete in.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Khyber

[Lord Fingolfin]

I believe Stockholm Syndrome refers to the fact that you were once a bold and independent alliance, then after being defeated by Pacifica and subsequently turned into a viceroyalty, you became (and remain) a bunch of sycophantic lapdogs. Is that clear enough?

*sighs* Alas, this one will never die, I can understand where people are coming from but I'm not sure exactly what they are going for. Do they want Legion to not resign with NPO, seek admittance to C&G, and start plotting a band-wagon against old Hegemony? Is that how we show we aren't "victims of Stockholm Syndrome"? Because frankly I don't see what else you could be pushing for. But closely look at that for a second. We'd never get admittance to C&G. We'd be laughed at. Our "Stockholm Syndrome" is as much a product of you guys (meaning everyone who bashes us for Stockholm Syndrome) as it is of our actions. We've stuck with NPO because we have a solid relationship of mutual respect. Why would we join forces with a side that derisively ridicules us? One, we wouldn't want to, and two, you guys wouldn't accept us. Rather ironically its your words and actions that drive us to be this thing that you claim to despise. I eagerly await your rebuttal Villien.

[Sequoia Throne]

Don't worry about it Fingolfin, they need a reason to hate and true friends of Pacifica are very easy to hate on right now. You guys stuck to your guns and fought by your allies when you knew you'd lose; when MK does it it's honorable, when you guys do it you're meatshield plus. CN runs on cognitive dissonance, I swear.

[Londo Mollari]

*sighs* Alas, this one will never die, I can understand where people are coming from but I'm not sure exactly what they are going for. Do they want Legion to not resign with NPO, seek admittance to C&G, and start plotting a band-wagon against old Hegemony? Is that how we show we aren't "victims of Stockholm Syndrome"? Because frankly I don't see what else you could be pushing for. But closely look at that for a second. We'd never get admittance to C&G. We'd be laughed at. Our "Stockholm Syndrome" is as much a product of you guys (meaning everyone who bashes us for Stockholm Syndrome) as it is of our actions. We've stuck with NPO because we have a solid relationship of mutual respect. Why would we join forces with a side that derisively ridicules us? One, we wouldn't want to, and two, you guys wouldn't accept us. Rather ironically its your words and actions that drive us to be this thing that you claim to despise. I eagerly await your rebuttal Villien.

Athens has never in its history gotten a Legion diplomat that I can remember. And let's be honest with ourselves here. Was ODN laughed at when they started to get closer to C&G alliances, after a long period of being called the "Optional Defense Network" by a lot of people here? No, not at all. We looked past the hype, looked at their current policies, and got to know them for who they really are. And it turns out, that ODN has some damn fine people. Legion is free to make friends with whoever you want, and don't assume you will be spit on because of your past if you are serious about picking a side and sticking with it.

I invite you to send a diplomat to our forums if you would like to get to know us better. We won't bite.

[rsoxbronco1]

*sighs* Alas, this one will never die, I can understand where people are coming from but I'm not sure exactly what they are going for. Do they want Legion to not resign with NPO, seek admittance to C&G, and start plotting a band-wagon against old Hegemony? Is that how we show we aren't "victims of Stockholm Syndrome"? Because frankly I don't see what else you could be pushing for. But closely look at that for a second. We'd never get admittance to C&G. We'd be laughed at. Our "Stockholm Syndrome" is as much a product of you guys (meaning everyone who bashes us for Stockholm Syndrome) as it is of our actions. We've stuck with NPO because we have a solid relationship of mutual respect. Why would we join forces with a side that derisively ridicules us? One, we wouldn't want to, and two, you guys wouldn't accept us. Rather ironically its your words and actions that drive us to be this thing that you claim to despise. I eagerly await your rebuttal Villien.

I remember Bob Sanders saying something Pre-Karma about GGA being rolled and destroyed by some of the alliances that ended up on the karma side if they ever left their Hegemony ties because we hated them so much (If I'm remembering incorrectly, I apologize to BS for puting words in his mouth) Now that the old Q/1V ties are somewhat defunct, do you see GGA getting rolled? Nope.

GGA is no longer tied to NPO and nobody has rolled them. You could easily make the argument that they're a better alliance simply based on the fact that there hasn't been GGA drama in what feels like forever.

You were an alliance that was rolled, controlled, and then you identified with your "Captor's" point of view. Your argument that we're somehow forcing you to exhibit stockholme syndrome is very chicken or the egg of you.

(this kinda rambled, [ooc]watching football=lack of focus[/ooc])

EDIT: Londo and I posted independently. We're not trying to gang up on you

Edited November 9, 2009 by rsoxbronco1

[AlmightyGrub]

NpO - 4 Because Grub thinks we're still in someway controlled by NPO. That's laughable at best.

I am not laughing...

[Sunstar]

ODN - 8 I haven't talked to you guys since I was at UPN. Cool group of people, a little unwieldy with all that democracy but I wouldn't have it any other way. Sunstar

you too Bones. You need to hang around #odn more.

[Heft]

Athens has never in its history gotten a Legion diplomat that I can remember. And let's be honest with ourselves here. Was ODN laughed at when they started to get closer to C&G alliances, after a long period of being called the "Optional Defense Network" by a lot of people here? No, not at all. We looked past the hype, looked at their current policies, and got to know them for who they really are. And it turns out, that ODN has some damn fine people. Legion is free to make friends with whoever you want, and don't assume you will be spit on because of your past if you are serious about picking a side and sticking with it.

I invite you to send a diplomat to our forums if you would like to get to know us better. We won't bite.

To be fair, I laughed.

I remember Bob Sanders saying something Pre-Karma about GGA being rolled and destroyed by some of the alliances that ended up on the karma side if they ever left their Hegemony ties because we hated them so much (If I'm remembering incorrectly, I apologize to BS for puting words in his mouth) Now that the old Q/1V ties are somewhat defunct, do you see GGA getting rolled? Nope.

GGA is no longer tied to NPO and nobody has rolled them. You could easily make the argument that they're a better alliance simply based on the fact that there hasn't been GGA drama in what feels like forever.

Maybe, but it's like not they're an independent alliance or anything. GGA isn't exactly a model that anyone would want to emulate.

[Lincongrad]

Why would we wish to get closer to those trolling us?

I ask this in all seriousness. Ever since the viceroyship, NPO has treated us decently. So why, exactly, should we spit in their face for this and attempt to cozy up to those who think we're scum?

[rsoxbronco1]

Maybe, but it's like not they're an independent alliance or anything. GGA isn't exactly a model that anyone would want to emulate.

I thought Legion already did.

[Lincongrad]

I thought Legion already did.

Naw, we've got WRCs. Other than that though, they're totally our idols.

In all seriousness, a lot can be learned from GGA. They had a pretty smooth switching of sides there, something that takes skill.

[rsoxbronco1]

Naw, we've got WRCs. Other than that though, they're totally our idols.

In all seriousness, a lot can be learned from GGA. They had a pretty smooth switching of sides there, something that takes skill.

Just watch out that your WRC's have warchests

[Lord Fingolfin]

Don't worry about it Fingolfin, they need a reason to hate and true friends of Pacifica are very easy to hate on right now. You guys stuck to your guns and fought by your allies when you knew you'd lose; when MK does it it's honorable, when you guys do it you're meatshield plus. CN runs on cognitive dissonance, I swear.

Thanks for the support

*tips his hat*

Athens has never in its history gotten a Legion diplomat that I can remember. And let's be honest with ourselves here. Was ODN laughed at when they started to get closer to C&G alliances, after a long period of being called the "Optional Defense Network" by a lot of people here? No, not at all. We looked past the hype, looked at their current policies, and got to know them for who they really are. And it turns out, that ODN has some damn fine people. Legion is free to make friends with whoever you want, and don't assume you will be spit on because of your past if you are serious about picking a side and sticking with it.

I invite you to send a diplomat to our forums if you would like to get to know us better. We won't bite.

I seem to keep running into you Londo...I don't post terribly often but this seems to be the 4th or 5th time I've found myself getting a direct reply from you. I suppose I should be flattered. Anyways, I appreciate the well thought out reply and invitation, I'll make sure to swing by in the upcoming days

I remember Bob Sanders saying something Pre-Karma about GGA being rolled and destroyed by some of the alliances that ended up on the karma side if they ever left their Hegemony ties because we hated them so much (If I'm remembering incorrectly, I apologize to BS for puting words in his mouth) Now that the old Q/1V ties are somewhat defunct, do you see GGA getting rolled? Nope.

GGA is no longer tied to NPO and nobody has rolled them. You could easily make the argument that they're a better alliance simply based on the fact that there hasn't been GGA drama in what feels like forever.

You were an alliance that was rolled, controlled, and then you identified with your "Captor's" point of view. Your argument that we're somehow forcing you to exhibit stockholme syndrome is very chicken or the egg of you.

(this kinda rambled, [ooc]watching football=lack of focus[/ooc])

EDIT: Londo and I posted independently. We're not trying to gang up on you

Ha, well stated I suppose. I'll see you around Athens forums

[Pawner]

...

FOK-9

MK-10

WTF-8

TOOL-8

TDO-5

...

Our highest ranking so far! <3 you too!!!!

WTF - 7 A quiet storm people don't expect

WTF – 5 can’t rate fairly, I don’t even know whether or not they’re neutral

We prefer the term independent... isn't much interest of CN politics at all really in WTF

WTF 5 Wow, how did this happen?

We're still trying to figure that one out

WTF - 3 You'd get a 1 for being quiet and neutral, but you have a pretty amazing upper tier which I envy.

I'll take the complement.

...so much hate here from some of you though

Edited November 9, 2009 by Pawner

[MiasmaCircle]

As an aside, wasn't it NWRoyale who said "If you aren't my enemy, you're my friend?" I try to believe this too. It's only the AA I'm rating here, not all the people in the alliance.

Wow. I am absolutely floored someone remembered and attributed that to me. Automatic win.

My own.

TOP -5

MHA - 7

Sparta - 5 (lack of knowledge)

NpO - 8

IRON - 5

ODN - 5

FARK -6

GPA - 6

NPO - 1

FOK - 3

MK - 9

WTF - 5 (lack of knowledge)

TOOL - 4

TDO - 5 (lack of knowledge)

VE - 4

Legion - 2

RoK - 8

GATO - 5

CSN - 7

Athens - 7

Gremlins - 2

MCXA - 2

UPN - 5 (lack of knowledge)

RIA - 7

STA - 9

Invicta - 4

RnR - 5 (lack of knowledge)

MASH - 5 (lack of knowledge)

NADC - 2

WAPA - 4

NV - 9

NSO - 8

NEW - 5 (lack of knowledge)

MA - 4

Umbrella - 6

FAN - 2

LoSS - 7

TSO - 6

NATO - 4

Nordreich - 1

GR - 6

Vanguard - 6

GOD - 9

FoB - 5 (lack of knowledge)

PC - 5 (lack of knowledge)

Valhalla - 8

GGA - 2

TPF - 1

SSX- 10

[Xiphosis]

*sighs* Alas, this one will never die, I can understand where people are coming from but I'm not sure exactly what they are going for. Do they want Legion to not resign with NPO, seek admittance to C&G, and start plotting a band-wagon against old Hegemony? Is that how we show we aren't "victims of Stockholm Syndrome"? Because frankly I don't see what else you could be pushing for.

They want Legion to seem like they mind getting the crap beat out of them and their sovereignty violated in the worst way for so long. When the old Hegemony made that possible, yes we expect you to be on our side taking them out. That's what having self-respect is about - sticking up for yourself, not taking !@#$. Legion seems content to ignore those who haven't done it any wrong in favor of those who have done it every wrong under the sun, but done so while whispering niceties. That's why you get derided.

And believe me, it's not a choice between C&G and NPO. The beautiful thing about CN is it's entirely possible to go it on your own right now, or do so with a few friends not connected to any one bloc. You just have to take the Initiative.

[Lincongrad]

They want Legion to seem like they mind getting the crap beat out of them and their sovereignty violated in the worst way for so long. When the old Hegemony made that possible, yes we expect you to be on our side taking them out. That's what having self-respect is about - sticking up for yourself, not taking !@#$. Legion seems content to ignore those who haven't done it any wrong in favor of those who have done it every wrong under the sun, but done so while whispering niceties. That's why you get derided.

And believe me, it's not a choice between C&G and NPO. The beautiful thing about CN is it's entirely possible to go it on your own right now, or do so with a few friends not connected to any one bloc. You just have to take the Initiative.

It's that whole past versus current thing. During the Karma war, NPO had been treating us just fine for a while. Much of the opposition, on the other hand, had been treating us poorly. Past grievances versus current grievances. Why would we have chosen you?

[rsoxbronco1]

It's that whole past versus current thing. During the Karma war, NPO had been treating us just fine for a while. Much of the opposition, on the other hand, had been treating us poorly. Past grievances versus current grievances. Why would we have chosen you?

As I understand it, prior to the Legion accepting a viceroy in 07, the NPO/Valhalla had treated you badly. Why then did you choose NPO and Valhalla?

[Xiphosis]

It's that whole past versus current thing. During the Karma war, NPO had been treating us just fine for a while. Much of the opposition, on the other hand, had been treating us poorly. Past grievances versus current grievances. Why would we have chosen you?

I think you have to weigh grievances here. We've mocked you, yes, but we've done so trying to push you into standing up. They, on the other hand, attacked you to annex a team you'd been on for a lot longer than they had, and made you into a base of operations there forcefully, for how long? You went from a Sanctioned Alliance to a lapdog overnight, and your respect around the world adjusted accordingly. No one respects anyone who doesn't respect themselves on CN, it's just how we are.

Honestly, I could've given less of a crap if you had nothing to do with Karma, and simply slipped away from NPO like GATO did, and like GATO, started making a name for yourself again as an independent body mindful of what NPO did to you. But you didn't. You fought with them, stayed with them, tried to help them pull a win out in a war fought against them over the ridiculous crap they pulled on you guys and countless others.

If this honestly wasn't clear before, I can understand, but I don't hate Legion. I can't remember ever hating Legion. I can remember losing any trace of respect and hope for you guys to turn yourself into something good, however, when Legion started defending NPO and it's policies on these forums.

[Trace]

You just have to take the Initiative.

That is just a terrible, terrible pun. You should feel bad.

[Lincongrad]

As I understand it, prior to the Legion accepting a viceroy in 07, the NPO/Valhalla had treated you badly. Why then did you choose NPO and Valhalla?

Over the course of the viceroyship the way we were being treated improved immensely. If the viceroyship had continued as it began, with harsh terms such as moving off-color and general ill treatment, we most likely would have joined you during the Karma war. Once NPO began to get to know us better, once the wall between our alliances had been broken down by the mandatory mixing imposed by the viceroyship, both alliances began to develop a relationship. Due to this budding partnership, NPO waived many of the requirements of the viceroyship, and by the end of the occupation we realized that although the causes behind our greater understanding of one another were bad, a friendship had blossomed nonetheless.

[ChairmanHal]

They want Legion to seem like they mind getting the crap beat out of them and their sovereignty violated in the worst way for so long. When the old Hegemony made that possible, yes we expect you to be on our side taking them out. That's what having self-respect is about - sticking up for yourself, not taking !@#$. Legion seems content to ignore those who haven't done it any wrong in favor of those who have done it every wrong under the sun, but done so while whispering niceties. That's why you get derided.

And believe me, it's not a choice between C&G and NPO. The beautiful thing about CN is it's entirely possible to go it on your own right now, or do so with a few friends not connected to any one bloc. You just have to take the Initiative.

Legion was totally overhauled (actually recreated from the ashes--remember they disbanded before NPO stepped in) and made into a virtual NPO puppet state. I was one of its harshest critics at one time.

Thing is, you don't change the culture of such a place overnight. It has to learn to think without asking for the NPO viceroy's approval. However, change did take place gradually and so subtly that a lot of people missed it.

Legion now is much more interested in the politics of Purple than what NPO may or may not want. The puppet strings are gone. I'm sorry if they aren't living up to your standards for what you think Legion *should* be, but the Legion of 2006 simply doesn't exist anymore.

[rsoxbronco1]

Over the course of the viceroyship the way we were being treated improved immensely. If the viceroyship had continued as it began, with harsh terms such as moving off-color and general ill treatment, we most likely would have joined you during the Karma war. Once NPO began to get to know us better, once the wall between our alliances had been broken down by the mandatory mixing imposed by the viceroyship, both alliances began to develop a relationship. Due to this budding partnership, NPO waived many of the requirements of the viceroyship, and by the end of the occupation we realized that although the causes behind our greater understanding of one another were bad, a friendship had blossomed nonetheless.

Ok. I think we both agree that's how it happened.

Now go look up the definition of Stockholme Syndrome and tell me you didn't just describe it. I'm not saying you aren't friends with NPO. I'm not saying you should cancel your treaty with them. I'm not saying either of you are bad alliances. I am saying that you are friends with NPO because when they took control of your alliance you began to identify and sympathize with them.

[TehChron]

Legion now is much more interested in the politics of Purple than what NPO may or may not want. The puppet strings are gone. I'm sorry if they aren't living up to your standards for what you think Legion *should* be, but the Legion of 2006 simply doesn't exist anymore.

Thank god.

That place annoyed the hell out of me. But gratz to the Legion on growing past that stage.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Chron