Why GOD and RIA cancelled on Nemesis

[SpacingOutMan]

Woaaaaaah, buddy. Chill out. I know its this maroonity thing getting you all fired-up for GOD and RIA, but seriously. In. Out. In. Out. If you don't like politics in a political simulator you can simply log off and quit the political simulator.

I am perfectly content in my response, nor do I wane my decision to ask if he was butt-hurt. Why? There is absolutely no reason for people to complain about treaty cancellations when they knew it would be the consequence of their actions. Maroonity has nothing to do with it because if it were any other alliance I would have wrote the same exact thing. The OP created an immensely oversimplified assumption of a situation that has been brooding for quite some time now, but alas there are those who use choice evidence when convenient. I could really care less, in all honesty, about the entire situation itself. It's nothing new. There are just those alliances that hate another alliance for some past belligerence or mistake. GOD and AB are just an example of an established precedent.

The fact that GOD, and then RIA, canceled on Nemesis is due to this relapse of some rancor. It, I can promise you, has other implied reasons. This thread is intended to throw a jab at GOD and RIA, simple as that. They don't need me defending them because they are more than adequate to do that themselves.

I think it's important that people know why a treaty was cancelled when it's somehting as important as forecful disbandment and funky butt lovin'.

But of course. However, anyone with an informed enough eye could have foreseen the two major end results of the AB fiasco. 1) AB disbands and everyone joins in on the cuddling train, or 2) AB doesn't disband and feelings are going to be hurt. Nemesis stood up for what they thought was right and justified. That's fine and dandy. If they really stand behind that decision, then they should have no resentment in losing their treaty with GOD because GOD obviously stands on a different playing field of ideals, as do all alliances.

[bkphysics]

I hope Yawoo doesn't mind me posting these. I have to find the logs from the war room where Bob and I tried to convince Xiphosis of the implications of doing so.

Honestly, the logs really make it sounds like Xiph was acting in the best interest of his alliance and the path they are on. Though it may of been a misstep to befriend an alliance based off of a relation with specific members, that in no way makes their move illegitimate.

Fact of the matter is, neither alliance is really seeing eye to eye anymore and why keep a flimsy friendship going?

[Coursca]

I think it's pretty safe to say that Blacky did not light the fuse on this one if he thought it was going to be a dud. There might be some nuance in any logs--there always is, sure--but what it boils down to is what it boils down to.

I see your point, Schattenmann, and appreciate it.

Though, the boiling down isn't always what it seems, as we've seen so many times in this place. I think a lot of us just want a broader picture of this thing, me included.*

However, if these allegations really do amount to the "boiling down", then we have ourselves some pyrotechnics.

[Blacky]

Honestly, the logs really make it sounds like Xiph was acting in the best interest of his alliance and the path they are on.

If you read the logs the decision was made at the time of the war.

[20:22] <Xiphosis[GOD]> And yeah, in all seriousness, I posted the Hoo logs when it happened for my members and let them vote on it, because I was way to biased from knowing him to really make that call and feel good about it.

[20:23] <Xiphosis[GOD]> They had three options - Cancel, don't, or cancel after the war was finished and pretty much everyone voted for the third.

[The AUT]

Just for context, why did/does GOD want AB disbanded? It is hard to keep up with all of the GOD drama these days.

My guess is that because AB was an Echelon protectorate. I believe when people were up in arms about the whole Echelon peace terms Xiphosis said he had the right to impose such terms outside of Karma. I respect it, and believe it was honest, but I don't want to turn this into an Echelon terms debate although for me, they were the worst things to come out of the war.

I know RIA didn't even take reps during the war, however GOD did, they appear to be a bit more callous. (Again, not saying it's wrong. At least they're honest and don't have to be something they're not)

[Nintenderek]

I hope Yawoo doesn't mind me posting these. I have to find the logs from the war room where Bob and I tried to convince Xiphosis of the implications of doing so.

The most important part of those logs was

[20:15] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Yeah, Hoo was the one sent to tell us.

01[20:15] <Yawoo> Yes, I have the logs.

[20:15] <Xiphosis[GOD]> And the foundation for most of our relationship

If alliances aren't friends, they might as well cancel. Also, it doesn't answer this question, which could be the most important thing said in this entire topic so far

Just for context, why did/does GOD want AB disbanded? It is hard to keep up with all of the GOD drama these days.

Neither GOD, RIA, or Nemesis seem like the type of alliance to force an alliance to disband. There's really too many unaswered questions to take one side or the other in this topic.

[PhysicsJunky]

Honestly, the logs really make it sounds like Xiph was acting in the best interest of his alliance and the path they are on.

The reverse side of this is that for all the constant chatter of close bonds and the like it seems to have been a one way dynamic here. As much as GOD can say "you should have stuck with us" there is an equally strong argument to "Perhaps you should not have maliciously rolled those guys when we asked you not to".

I'm not suggesting that GOD didn't have the right to cancel the treaty if they felt they were no longer close, just that painting it as Nemesis having broken some trust as opposed to GOD seems suspect. This drama is silly and reduces to two alliances simply parting paths and both sides handling it worse than they could have.

[Delta1212]

Actually, there were two reasons for my decision. Everyone I knew in Nemesis gov had left, and you became a member of Nemesis gov. Thank you for bearing out my judgment on that second point.

[Terry Howard]

Im going to self harm for saying this i know it.

Xiphosis is one of the best leaders in CN (IMO) and if he wanted to push for Disband then this alliance did something to annoy him and his alliance no matter how big or small.

Im no fan of Xiphosis or GOD for that matter however i have worked with most othe bigger members in my time and they would not just chuck it to the wind to do somthing like this and risk there alliance they have spent 3 years and at lest the same amount of name changes to build.

Blacky for your sake and your alliance try and work things out as Xiphosis/GOD are not the kind of enamy you need Trust me been there.

Or just forget what i said deal with it.

[Timeline]

I'm a third party who is "uninformed".

For someone who is uninformed you seem to have a lot to say.

[Goose]

Just for context, why did/does GOD want AB disbanded? It is hard to keep up with all of the GOD drama these days.

I believe the reason for Xiphosis' dislike of Aurora stems from the poor form shown by their founding members at Monos Archein prior to their departure, and their behavior shortly thereafter.

[Blacky]

Here are the aforementioned logs. Note: This was while we were still at war.

03[19:32] * Xiphosis[GOD] changes topic to '- | #KILLMAIMBURN | - GDA, AB, and Echelon front. | For: BTO, TTK, MA, CSN, GOD, Nemesis, RIA, AO and LoSS. | Military/Political discussion and coordination hub.'

[19:33] <Co_God_Ben[LoSS]> sup

[19:33] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> we just need one of these in general

[19:33] <dwthegreat[bTO]> my first war room!

[19:34] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> but I also wanna talk about surrender terms a bit when everyones here

[19:34] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> esp. about AB

[19:34] <Co_God_Ben[LoSS]> are they ready to surrender?

01[19:34] <Blacky> Personally I've had a chat with Bob so from our side we don't have a problem with AB

01[19:34] <Blacky> We don't want to see them burn

[19:34] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> I don't know or care, I don't wanna let them

01[19:35] <Blacky> I agree with that. It's too soon.

[19:35] <Goose|warmonger|> I don't like AB.

[19:35] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> AB formed as a direct result of a failed coup of Monos Archein with outside support from numerous enemies. Their continued existance serves only to remind me of it, and I don't want them to survive this war

[19:35] <dwthegreat[bTO]> Random Thought: My AA had the first terms last war

[19:35] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> GOD nations have already been ordered to not let their AB targets surrender, but I wanted to talk with everyone about it

[19:35] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> explain why and see what everyone thought

[19:35] <dwthegreat[bTO]> BAM! defeated SSX

01[19:36] <Blacky> So that's the reason why?

[19:37] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> yep >_>

01[19:37] <Blacky> They were created as a result of a failed coup attempt of MA?

[19:37] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> and why SF/Maroon posted that we'd crush any coups after we got screens and logs from Echelon among others

[19:37] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> showing they were backing it

01[19:37] <Blacky> Since then have they done anything to warrant their destruction?

[19:37] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> AB split off after that and Echelon's been protecting them since

[19:37] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> It's all the same guys.

[19:38] <dwthegreat[bTO]> hey if its what GOD wants

[19:38] <dwthegreat[bTO]> we'll keep fighting

[19:38] <dwthegreat[bTO]> (that is if LoSS is ok with it)

[19:38] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> They and Echelon have used it to threaten MA since, Blacky

[19:38] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> a few times

[19:38] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> We've always told them to $%&@ off, but it warrants something punitive

[19:38] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> It's fairly low-brow !@#$ to do under any circumstance

01[19:38] <Blacky> So what are you looking at?

[19:39] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> Disbandment

[19:39] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> No tech farm or reps or anything, they have to just go

[19:39] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> join Echelon if they wanna be puppets, or go elsewhere, I don't care

[19:39] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> but AB needs to get wiped from the books

[19:40] <Goose|warmonger|> ***

[19:40] <Goose|warmonger|> What God wants? ^^

03[19:40] * Bob (*IP*) has joined #killmaimburn

[19:40] <Bob> Xiphosis[GOD]

[19:40] <Bob> hi

[19:40] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> Bob

[19:40] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> 'sup

[19:40] <Bob> we arent disbanding

[19:40] <Bob> an alliance.

[19:41] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> Don't then

[19:41] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> Hell, I'm not asking anyone to do anything

[19:41] <~Xiphosis[GOD]> I'm just letting everyone know what GOD's gonna do, I don't mind being the evil **** in the room

[cookavich]

Actually, they cancelled on you because of the immaturity you insist on showing at almost every turn. This thread would be an example of such immaturity.

Irony of ironies that GOD would cancel on someone because of immaturity.

[Kevin McDonald]

Irony of ironies that GOD would cancel on someone because of immaturity.

I would call Xiphosis many things... Immature would not be one of them.

[Delta1212]

Of course, the best part of all this is that we obviously canceled because Nemesis refused to help disband an alliance that nobody disbanded.

[The Eye]

GOD, RIA, Nemesis and this thread, they all have something in common. They're IC. Moved to WA

[Goose]

Of course, the best part of all this is that we obviously canceled because Nemesis refused to help disband an alliance that nobody disbanded.

You fool! It couldn't be done without the support of Nemesis. They were the lynchpin.

[Blacky]

Of course, the best part of all this is that we obviously canceled because Nemesis refused to help disband an alliance that nobody disbanded.

No **** sherlock.

Guess why? Hint: It might have something to do with Nemesis and the others refusing to take part.

Also, KaitlinK joining and taking our side might have had something to do with it. In any case the logs are there, and the reasons for the cancellation and Xiphosis' intent is clear for anybody to see.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Blacky

[Lord Boris]

Best of luck to Nemesis. Not the first time Xiphosis has wished for an alliance to disband, though, and probably not the last time.

[Timeline]

Of course, the best part of all this is that we obviously canceled because Nemesis refused to help disband an alliance that nobody disbanded.

In my time I have seen treaties cancelled for much less, the fact that GOD was unable to force AB to disbanded could be the reason why they cancelled the treaty with Nemesis. As with Nemesis' help they just might have been able to pull it off, but due to the fact Nemesis refused to support this action this could be the very reason why GOD cancelled on Nemesis. We all know RIA has a tendency to follow rather then lead.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Timeline

[Heft]

GOD, RIA, Nemesis and this thread, they all have something in common. They're IC. Moved to WA

OOC: Oh thank you I was about to go get all upset at yet another thread being in the wrong spot. Seriously people, it's not that hard.

IC: I don't have anything polite to say about any of the participants in this maybe-drama, except RIA have never struck me as the overly dick-ish "kill them because we can" types and if this is really the state of Nemesis gov these days then the real question is why only RIA and GOD have canceled so far.

[D34th]

But just the evil hegemony wanted to disband alliances! This is impossible!

[Delta1212]

No **** sherlock.

Guess why? Hint: It might have something to do with Nemesis and the others refusing to take part.

Yeah... That just made it harder to get them peace. You really aren't good at knowing what you are talking about.

[Delta1212]

In my time I have seen treaties cancelled for much less, the fact that GOD was unable to force AB to disbanded could be the reason why they cancelled the treaty with Nemesis. As with Nemesis' help they just might have been able to pull it off, but due to the fact Nemesis refused to support this action this could be the very reason why GOD cancelled on Nemesis. We all know RIA has a tendency to follow rather then lead.

GOD could have single-handedly kept AB at ZI indefinitely if they had tried. As cute as the "You only failed because we bailed!" line is, it's not rooted in anything remotely related to fact.

[Balder]

Best of luck to Nemesis. Not the first time Xiphosis has wished for an alliance to disband, though, and probably not the last time.

Thank heavens, because if Xiphosis and GOD didn't stand up for their beliefs despite what anyone else thought, I wouldn't be leading a nation today let alone an alliance.

In my time I have seen treaties cancelled for much less, the fact that GOD was unable to force AB to disbanded could be the reason why they cancelled the treaty with Nemesis. As with Nemesis' help they just might have been able to pull it off, but due to the fact Nemesis refused to support this action this could be the very reason why GOD cancelled on Nemesis. We all know RIA has a tendency to follow rather then lead.

GOD could have forced whatever the hell they wanted on AB without Nemesis' "approval." Also, could you please explain to me this tendency RIA has that I've never seen despite being allied to them for over a year now? Please, enlighten me.