My own rebuttal, and an MHAnnouncement

[Doitzel]

I'm one of the ranking members of the BTA. If I wanted advice on how to do my job I'd ask.

Well if you don't want to get commentary on how you represent yourself and your alliance in public maybe you shouldn't do an abysmal job of it. Or is it your intent to get another alliance barely off the ground ruined with your intentional incompetence? That's not very fair.

[Lord Brendan]

Ultimately what it comes down to is TAB believes that as the direct successor of the BTA, they retain full rights over the name, whereas others believe that anyone can make an alliance if the affiliation isn't currently in use. I don't think people are going to agree over this, and most don't think it's worth going to war over, so really all that can happen is TAB and BTA expressing their dislike for each other.

[Magnum T. Gundraw]

Nice opinions there. I was very interested in knowing what you had to say, especially being in MHA, where they control BTA.

No seriously, it's another alliance from another time. If you're convinced it's going to be run into the ground anyway, leave it the $%&@ alone.

[Rebel Virginia]

Well if you don't want to get commentary on how you represent yourself and your alliance in public maybe you shouldn't do an abysmal job of it. Or is it your intent to get another alliance barely off the ground ruined with your intentional incompetence? That's not very fair.

Well then, tell me, what would be the competent thing to do? Crawl up to MHA, change our name, apologize, and hope for a pat on the head? Well, I don't know about you, but Rebel Virginia don't play that. No, I grab life by the balls and toss it about. That's what I do.

[Doitzel]

Well then, tell me, what would be the competent thing to do? Crawl up to MHA, change our name, apologize, and hope for a pat on the head? Well, I don't know about you, but Rebel Virginia don't play that. No, I grab life by the balls and toss it about. That's what I do.

I'm advising nothing of the sort, indeed no action at all beyond showing simple tact and not challenging them to, essentially, "do something about it". That line doesn't end well for people who employ it, generally, and it's no way to get a peaceful resolution that you can both agree to -- that is what you want, yes?

[Duncan King]

Nice opinions there. I was very interested in knowing what you had to say, especially being in MHA, where they control BTA.

No seriously, it's another alliance from another time. If you're convinced it's going to be run into the ground anyway, leave it the $%&@ alone.

I was wondering when someone would point out the issue that I was having with MHA's involvement in this whole situation. Why does MHA, a separate and sovereign alliance from TAB, care about the use of the name BTA, a name that MHA has no historical relation to? TAB at least has a claim to the name because many of the founders of TAB had been members of BTA, but MHA has its own separate and distinct origin. Or has the identity of MHA become so convoluted of late that it no longer has its own distinct identity and is now no more than a puppet of Gremlins and TAB?

Sorum, you have your own history with the name BTA, but that history is not the history of the alliance that you currently serve in the government of. Supporting your allies in TAB is one thing, but you should not be making your personal issues the issues of your former alliance the issues of your current one. When you joined MHA, you accepted MHA's history, you didn't transplant in TAB's.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Duncan King

[Kowalski]

I was wondering when someone would point out the issue that I was having with MHA's involvement in this whole situation. Why does MHA, a separate and sovereign alliance from TAB, care about the use of the name BTA, a name that MHA has no historical relation to? TAB at least has a claim to the name because many of the founders of TAB had been members of BTA, but MHA has its own separate and distinct origin. Or has the identity of MHA become so convoluted of late that it no longer has its own distinct identity and is now no more than a puppet of Gremlins and TAB?

If you bothered to read the thread rather than continuing your pathetic tirade against MHA you'd see my response to a similar question - after TAB's original thread there was a FIRE announcement regarding their protection of BTA, an announcement which featured a number of responses that could have been considered as aggressive towards TAB. MHA felt the need to publicly announce that it would like to see this situation end peacefully in response to some of the opinions expressed in the FIRE thread.

[Rebel Virginia]

I'm advising nothing of the sort, indeed no action at all beyond showing simple tact and not challenging them to, essentially, "do something about it". That line doesn't end well for people who employ it, generally, and it's no way to get a peaceful resolution that you can both agree to -- that is what you want, yes?

You cannot have peace without war. It is as simple as that.

And Duncan, MHA has decided to get involved because they say TAB is their ally. That's the official reason at least. The real reason though is because MHA feels a need to flex its muscle against a seven man alliance. You see, without the NPO on top, MHA needs to make sure that people take them seriously. And what better way to do that than by standing strong in the face of the BTA? Two thumbs up MHA!

[Jipps]

Nevermind.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Jipps

[Doitzel]

You cannot have peace without war. It is as simple as that.

Cop-out.

And Duncan, MHA has decided to get involved because they say TAB is their ally. That's the official reason at least. The real reason though is because MHA feels a need to flex its muscle against a seven man alliance. You see, without the NPO on top, MHA needs to make sure that people take them seriously. And what better way to do that than by standing strong in the face of the BTA? Two thumbs up MHA!

Or maybe they're getting involved because FIRE saw fit to throw around weight it does not possess against TAB's petty little name-grab. It's almost like dragging other alliances into the dispute dominoes through the treaty web and unnecessarily brings in parties like MHA.

[Rebel Virginia]

Or maybe they're getting involved because FIRE saw fit to throw around weight it does not possess against TAB's petty little name-grab. It's almost like dragging other alliances into the dispute dominoes through the treaty web and unnecessarily brings in parties like MHA.

MHA was involved from the very beginning, and they made that quite clear. Or maybe you missed that part about TAB having the "full support of the MHA." Not that it means much anyway.

[rabonnobar]

I was wondering when someone would point out the issue that I was having with MHA's involvement in this whole situation. Why does MHA, a separate and sovereign alliance from TAB, care about the use of the name BTA, a name that MHA has no historical relation to? TAB at least has a claim to the name because many of the founders of TAB had been members of BTA, but MHA has its own separate and distinct origin. Or has the identity of MHA become so convoluted of late that it no longer has its own distinct identity and is now no more than a puppet of Gremlins and TAB?

Sorum, you have your own history with the name BTA, but that history is not the history of the alliance that you currently serve in the government of. Supporting your allies in TAB is one thing, but you should not be making your personal issues the issues of your former alliance the issues of your current one. When you joined MHA, you accepted MHA's history, you didn't transplant in TAB's.

TAB isn't a huge alliance. I do not find it odd that its strongest ally would publicly have their back. Sounds like someone else is trying to bring personal issues/grudges in this situation to me.

[Rebel Virginia]

TAB isn't a huge alliance. I do not find it odd that its strongest ally would publicly have their back. Sounds like someone else is trying to bring personal issues/grudges in this situation to me.

You know, BTA ain't exactly a giant either, so I find it hard to swallow the idea that TAB needed MHA's backing. Unless TAB is weaker than I thought.

Also, I don't know if this needs to be said, but yes, I do speak on behalf of the BTA. Any and all statements I say should be interpreted as official.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Rebel Virginia

[Deadshot]

Good luck to our treaty partners in TAB and MHA in dealing with this. Personally I think the entire thing is being blown out of proportion. As has been pointed out, MHA does not hold claim to a name simply because of Sorum having been a leader of BTA. Members of BTA are not helping by fanning the flames. I can echo Elyat's sentiment of "not challenging them to, essentially, "do something about it". That line doesn't end well for people who employ it, generally, and it's no way to get a peaceful resolution that you can both agree to", having been on the receiving end of that beatdown.

I sincerely hope a peaceful resolution can be reached.

[ChairmanHal]

TAB isn't a huge alliance. I do not find it odd that its strongest ally would publicly have their back. Sounds like someone else is trying to bring personal issues/grudges in this situation to me.

Sounds more to me like people are getting REALLY bored waiting for NPO to surrender/die and this whole mess barely rates a few pages of convo about it, if that.

OP: Attack or do not. If not, then fine, you spoke your piece on why BTA is the "real" BTA.

[Magnum T. Gundraw]

If you bothered to read the thread rather than continuing your pathetic tirade against MHA you'd see my response to a similar question - after TAB's original thread there was a FIRE announcement regarding their protection of BTA, an announcement which featured a number of responses that could have been considered as aggressive towards TAB. MHA felt the need to publicly announce that it would like to see this situation end peacefully in response to some of the opinions expressed in the FIRE thread.

So saying you don't recognize or seek to recognize their alliance is what you define as peaceful? Face it, this announcement was even more unnecessary than TAB's. Just because you're allied doesn't mean you should announce your support for them in doing nothing. This just appears to me as a chance for Sorum to post a sob story and aid TAB's unrealistic PR campaign.

[astronaut jones]

Good luck to our treaty partners in TAB and MHA in dealing with this. Personally I think the entire thing is being blown out of proportion. As has been pointed out, MHA does not hold claim to a name simply because of Sorum having been a leader of BTA. Members of BTA are not helping by fanning the flames. I can echo Elyat's sentiment of "not challenging them to, essentially, "do something about it". That line doesn't end well for people who employ it, generally, and it's no way to get a peaceful resolution that you can both agree to", having been on the receiving end of that beatdown.

I sincerely hope a peaceful resolution can be reached.

The peaceful thing to do would be to just, and I hate to agree with bobby j, let them fail on their own accord. It's a name. No one forfeited any rights to it, no one staked any claims to it since it was given up, it's only now that people are butthurt about this.

just leave em be. TAB started it, FIRE came in and fanned the flames, MHA came in and fanned the flames even further. This is a non-issue AT BEST.

[Yubyubsan]

Or has the identity of MHA become so convoluted of late that it no longer has its own distinct identity and is now no more than a puppet of Gremlins

Somewhere in here, there's a joke to be made about eternal treaties.

[HellAngel]

Or has the identity of MHA become so convoluted of late that it no longer has its own distinct identity and is now no more than a puppet of Gremlins and TAB?

Dont talk about something you dont know jack !@#$ about.

[Deadshot]

The peaceful thing to do would be to just, and I hate to agree with bobby j, let them fail on their own accord. It's a name. No one forfeited any rights to it, no one staked any claims to it since it was given up, it's only now that people are butthurt about this.

just leave em be. TAB started it, FIRE came in and fanned the flames, MHA came in and fanned the flames even further. This is a non-issue AT BEST.

I hate to agree with you, but you are completely right. Everyone needs to calm down and let nature decide its course, whether it be to thrive or failure.

[rabonnobar]

You know, BTA ain't exactly a giant either, so I find it hard to swallow the idea that TAB needed MHA's backing. Unless TAB is weaker than I thought.

Also, I don't know if this needs to be said, but yes, I do speak on behalf of the BTA. Any and all statements I say should be interpreted as official.

Didn't say that BTA was large. And people do many things that aren't necessarily necessary at first glance. Covering all your bases, ya know.

[Rebel Virginia]

Didn't say that BTA was large. And people do many things that aren't necessarily necessary at first glance. Covering all your bases, ya know.

So you're saying that MHA is doing this now because they might need to do it in the future? Nice try, but no dice.

[CptGodzilla]

I did, I just don't buy your !@#$%^&*.

Either you're after drama, or you're looking for a beatdown to be delivered. Either one, take your pick.

Or he was the one that ushered it from BTA to TAB thus his input is probably important in said situation.

[astronaut jones]

Or he was the one that ushered it from BTA to TAB thus his input is probably important in said situation.

Except this is a non-issue, and all that he's managed to do is posture in an attempt to look all big and frightening. TAB shouldn't have made their topic, FIRE most definitely shouldn't have made theirs, and MHA made an even bigger mistake in making this topic than FIRE did, which is seriously saying something about MHA at this time.

Or atleast about sorum.

[CptGodzilla]

Also unless it was a secret term MD was not forced out of BTA because the terms that same sorum guy posted read as follows.

Well, for BTA to even make it to surrender negotiations, they had to agree to kick out MD as he was "on NPO's zi list"

aka, I kinda threw him under the bus so BTA wasn't forced to disband

Edited June 29, 2009 by CptGodzilla